Some thoughts on evolution...

dyer

I had a curious conversation with a good friend of mine about ufo's recently.. basically his stance was that he wasnt going to believe in them until hed seen them for himself.. otherwise he thought it was mostly a load of crap. He was open enough to listen to me.. but it kinda drove me up the wall that he knew me enough not to make up stories, and that he couldnt simply trust me and my experiences.. but i guess thats human nature.

anyway.. at some point he asked the question.. why have you seen them and i havent? which i guess is a pertinent question to ask.. and one which ive heard many people ask.. but then, isnt that completely arbitrary?

why do some people see ghosts.. why do some people win the lotto.. why do some people see ufo's.. why do some people experience all of these things and others dont? is there any real answer to this question? is it simply a matter of luck or chance.. or is there more to it than that..

at some some point in this discussion we started talking about evolution.. and whether or not human beings had finished evolving or not. we talked about the myriad of mutations that have occured in evolving species that exist in fossil records to which we can attribute much of what makes us what we are today.. and then we wondered about how the human mind might still be evolving.

with all 6.7 billion of us in the world.. are we all truly alike? or.. is nature playing itself out in an infinite number of ways? why can some people perceive and feel energy or even see it, while others think them insane.. why can some people understand the most complex mathematics and see the world in such a way that will leave others utterly perplexed.. why do some people see ghosts when others do not.. or even ufos for that matter? are we wired a certain way.. simply genetically predisposed by previous generations before us..

im not sure if this topic belongs in paranormal.. but after that discussion it made me think long and hard about why people do and dont believe in certain things.. and whether there was more to it than that. by modern standards, beliefs may not be scientific.. but then.. if early philosophers did not follow their beliefs, feelings and ideas.. modern science, simply would not exist. i think our current understanding of evolution gives us an ample grasp of the physical world.. but how that natural world came to be, or why it chose to be what it is on a biological level, is something we are very far from understanding. i struggle to understand myself on a daily basis.. i strive to understand my life and my dreams, to come to peace with where its all going.. im the kind of person whos not happy until hes got an answer.. and when it comes to ufo's.. im stumped! ive done sh1t loads of research and i still dont believe human beings are capable of building the kind of ufo's that ive seen.. all i can do is accept that they are here. probably no more than some people can see ghosts have to accept that other people will never see them, nor believe them.

i wish i could tie this up nicely but im rather wrecked.. so pardon me as i exit out the back door .. hopefully ive inspired some ideas

MrStuffins

Dude, let me assure you here.

If there are aliens coming here fromhundreds, thousands or millions of light years away, they possess the technology to either travel faster than the speed of light or the abilty to bend Spacetime so as to cross vast areas in the blink of an eye.

If this is the case, they're here right now and they've been here a long time, we just don't know it. You can safely guess that if these aliens do in fact possess such abilities, then they have also developed a way to be undetectable by us humans, who would be less than Ape-Like in their eyes.

And yes we are still evolving. We are definitely not all alike and at no point in human civilisation have the humans who lived on the earth in the same eras ever been alike!

There are a heap of reasons as to why some see things and others dont. One of them being... because they WANT to! It's like those on the CT forum. Why is it that someone who believes one CT is much much more likely to believe another, despite the same evidence being available to everyone?

Just my 2 cents anyway!

dyer

thanks for your answer

well, i do believe they are here.. as to how, i can only guess.. it might seem overly complex to us right now.. but then.. the beauty of physics is, how simple it looks when you finally figure it out i would hardly say they are undetectable.. as people are seeing them every day all over the world.

There are a heap of reasons as to why some see things and others dont. One of them being... because they WANT to!

in a backwards kind of way.. this is kind of what i was trying to say.. if you dont believe or want to see something.. maybe you close yourself off somehow? i dont know.. thats just simply a thought. its easy dismiss something until it forms part of your reality.. for whatever reasons.

i dont know what the CT forum is.. ?

MrStuffins

dyer wrote: »

thanks for your answer

well, i do believe they are here.. as to how, i can only guess.. it might seem overly complex to us right now.. but then.. the beauty of physics is, how simple it looks when you finally figure it out i would hardly say they are undetectable.. as people are seeing them every day all over the world.

Well I don't know what they are seeing, maybe Alierns or maybe not. But that's not to say there aren't others here who we simply can't detect. They are definitely out there, I don't think any sane person could believe that in a universe where there are more stars than grains of sand on every beach on Planet Earth that there isnt life elsewhere. Whether they have reached us is another thing.

in a backwards kind of way.. this is kind of what i was trying to say.. if you dont believe or want to see something.. maybe you close yourself off somehow? i dont know.. thats just simply a thought. its easy dismiss something until it forms part of your reality.. for whatever reasons.

No I disagree. They're either here or not you know? I mean, I could try my best to not believe in gravity but there's no possible way I could close myself off to it!

i dont know what the CT forum is.. ?

Conspiracy Theory forum. In general, I find that people who believe in say, the 9/11 conspiracy theory are MUCH more likely to believe in the Moon Landing theory. I don't think this is a coincidence either.

lolo62

you've made some interesting points there

without a doubt your beliefs shape your reality when it comes to how you see the world and i experience this on a daily basis so for me this is true but then i believe aliens exist and have never seen a ufo...

then ive heard stories of people who absolutely never would have believed aliens existed until they had experiences for themselves and they are now evangalists!...this is kind of a spanner in the works to the beliefs shaping reality theory (although i do believe its true to an extent)

i believe we are all truely alike at our core AND nature is playing itself out in an infinite number of ways...im gonna sound like a cheese-ball here but i think everyone has their own talents and skills...
i feel and see energy...people who are more left brain oriented think im nuts and patronize me constantly, used to drive me bonkers but now i understand they just cant relate in the same way i find it really difficult to relate to them but im working hard on that..

i would love to have an et experience and for a while i think i was trying too hard to make that happen so ive parked it for a while and jsut keep an eye on the sky instead
ive become so overwhelmed with all the information thats out there ive realised i could be searching for 'THE truth' til the day i die in the process missing out on whats really important...my own truth because thats all i can ever REALLY know...........:rolleyes:

BTW great thread!

this conversation is really interesting and discusses some of the same topics http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNZsLS3hoho&feature=feedwll&list=WL

dyer

ever since i was a kid i was fascinated by space, the universe and the stars and id always believed life existed outside of ours.. but i never EVER expected that it actually existed HERE! i never realised the difference between believing in something and knowing it in that respect until id seen it for myself.. and i can honestly say it shook me and it scared me. i think that we are, for the most part, by and large way too simple to conceive that this is actual fact. people think of ufos/ets in human terms.. as in.. that they think like us.. that they would behave like us, because they are intelligent.. this is nothing more than our god given ego, because we imagine ourselves as the dominant and most complex species on this planet, and of course we are.. yet we have no idea how intelligent they are, we have no idea of what they are capable of.. in general.. we have no idea whatsoever.. and to make matters worse, the scientific world thinks it such a joke they wont even bother studying it.. but is that because they really arent interested.. or because they cant? i often wonder why its so hard for people to grasp the idea that we might not be as advanced as we think we are.. sure weve accomplished some pretty amazing things.. but whos to say what another civilisation on some other planet that has existed for millions of years before us has managed to achieve? why is that so hard for people to understand?

im one of those people who feels energy.. but ive never seen it.. i wish i could. i dont know why i feel it, but i just do.. for a very long time i thought i might be going crazy for that simple fact alone until i spoke to people who live that life.. and assured me i wasnt actually crazy.. and those people werent scientists. so maybe i have a chip on my shoulder when it comes to scientists.. but thats only because ive had experiences science has not, cannot, or just simply refuses to explain.. so screw them in that regard. i studied science and found it was missing something... it lacks the human experience.. as if it truly believes it can measure all of life itself and quantify it all in nice pretty numbers.. and most of the time, it will favour that, or try to find any other answer, over the actual observation of reality that people have witnessed. its ridiculous, and things need to change.

i cant say that ive ever looked for ufos.. somehow i was fortunate enough to just experience their presence on numerous occasions.. but ive seen enough and worked through the physics enough to know that theres no way we could have built these machines.. i dont even believe in all those american generals and such who said 'we' have this technology.. as far as im concerned.. they would say that.. just to scare the opposition... thats human nature for you right there, pure and simple

i believe we are all truely alike at our core AND nature is playing itself out in an infinite number of ways

interesting to wonder how much in control of ourselves we actually think we are dont you think?

Standman

Well evolution is not something that is necessarily a means to an end, in that it has no real ideal end point it is aiming for; it's merely a process. In this way we don't "finish" evolving. Examples of different evolutionary paths are clear to see all around the world, with different races being an obvious one. Another interesting example are the lactose tolerant people who's ancestors reared cattle and drank milk and dairy products. In the countries such as China where this kind of dairy product use did not occur, only 1% of the population have the mutated gene that enables them to be lactose tolerant into adulthood, compared to the Danes and Swedes where 90% of people have it. Also there are the Tibetans who have evolved to thrive in high altitudes where the oxygen levels are low, a specific caste in India which have evolved an intolerance to a certain kind of anesthetic, etc. These are all very recent in the evolutionary timescale. The route evolution takes depends on the direct circumstances the people are in, i.e. those in which a person with a mutation would be at an advantage and therefore more likely to live longer and produce more offspring.

Now you seem to be implying that some people may have evolved to be more likely to see certain paranormal occurrences, but I think this is a question that is more relevant to psychology than evolutionary science. It's definitely true that different people seem to have their brains "wired" in different ways, in that they take to some subjects like a duck to water more than others. People think in different ways, some are very imaginative and some are very analytical, some a mix of the two. When we are talking about reality however, it shouldn't matter how you think, things are either there or they are not. This is what science attempts to ascertain; what is there and how does it work.

Ziycon

I have to agree with a lot of what Standman said. The whole idea of people evolving to see different things, I don't think this is the case but more a case of the environment that the person grew up in as a child and the pre-conditioning from that persons surroundings and the people around them.

Its grand to have your own beliefs like that you believe in extra extraterrestrial life or that extraterrestrial life is already here on Earth and to discuss it with people but its not on you to push your own beliefs on others that either don't care or just don't believe what your saying, its nothing against you but its the way they grew up and learned to understand the world around them.

Regarding ufo's, the question isn't weather people believe in them or not its the idea that they could be extraterrestrial that makes people uneasy or they don't want to know etc. the term ufo has been diluted by Hollywood from its inception, if you go out and ask anyone what is a ufo they will 99% of the time say something along the lines of 'aliens', this is a major misconception, but its what has been drilled into societies head from a young age, from cartoons to major Hollywood movies, there is no use fighting a persons belief or ideas as you'll never win, all you can do is share what you know or what you think you know and let them make they're own mind up.

With all that said, they is no evidence to suggest that extraterrestrial life has visited earth or is even here, dispite it being a nice idea when it comes down to it, its all speculation and stories. I'm not belittling anyone that's had an experience as I believe they have had what they believe to be a genuine experience but until there is evidence that we can only speculate on what's happening.

I'll finish with a very interesting idea I saw recently in a documentary. Say for example the human race was wiped out tomorrow and all books, internet etc was destroyed with only a hand full of people surviving to rebuild the human race, say 5000 years later after the human race population had started to build up, these people looking at say the statue of liberty aren't going to know that it was just a gift from the French but they are mostly likely going to think it was a shrine of a lady that brought light to the people that was worshipped by people as they have nothing to base the statue on. Now take a step back on everything ancient and all the gaps in history that people try to fill with 'Aliens did it', this is just easy for people to explain something that they can't explain, is doesn't mean aliens built the pyramids or anything else it just means that we as a race have no reference point to explain something that happened in the past.

dyer

thanks and sorry if i seem to be 'pushing' my beliefs that was never my intention, my words are just one small facet of my thoughts, i very much agree with alot of what you guys have said.. and im no expert, by any extent! this post arose from a conversation with a friend which i just happened to find interesting and one which got me thinking about things in ways i had not really considered before.

the human race certainly owes everything to its genetic history and the environment of its relative ancestors but youre talking about the physical body and its immune system specifically as opposed to the mind. i guess i was implying how some people may have evolved to be more likely to see or experience paranormal occurrences, and since the brain is a biological organ i think that could be a question of evolutionary science as much as a psychological one. i might be wrong, but i dont think theres a whole lot science can yet tell us about the differences between a persons brain of 500 hundred years ago than it can of one today.

its no secret that magnetic interference to the brain can cause people to hallucinate and experience all manner of weird things, which some studies suggest are likely to blame for most paranormal sightings, ufo abductions and such, and that some people might just be more succeptible or sensitive to background radiation or magnetic fields etc. if we are all indeed created equal, biologically speaking, i dont see why this would affect some people and not others.. and if a group of individuals were all subjected to this type of magnetic interference in a controlled environment i would suspect theyd all have different experiences.. while some descriptions and emotions might indeed be somewhat similiar, i dont see how it would explain how a group of people in the real world could all experience and witness the exact same thing. in respect to ufo's, the fact that videos and photographs (however bad) do exist.. prove that they are not simply a figment of peoples imaginations.

unfortunately zicyon, you are right in saying we can only speculate as to what might be happening..but its a necessary start nonetheless. by now im sure youve all heard about the recent debate at cern over particles that appear to travel faster than light. it still remains to be seen but the implications it would have on physics if it proves to be true are great. even if it doesnt, there is so much to learn about how matter and energy behaves at a quantum level.. i for one dont believe we have or ever will stop evolving, whether scientifically or biologically, and i certainly dont believe we are anywere near having theoretically solved "everything".