Are golf buggies road legal?

Obelisk29

Hi, was driving down Orwell Rd in Dublin the other day and noticed a golf buggy crossing the road (Orwell Rd bisects Milltown Golf Club) and it got me wondering are golf buggies allowed on the public higway? What would be the situation if they hit somebody or a car hit them?
o29

McCrack

Strictly not legal but if it was just crossing the road to get from the course to the other side I wouldn't think much an issue but if it was tottering on down to the Dropping Well for instance there would be a problem.

If an accident happened ordinary civil and/or criminal liability would apply.

Victor

Most likely no road legal.

You are certain that it wasn't one of those enlarged motorised wheelchairs?

BrianD

It is an interesting question as there are many small vehicles based on golf car design used for municipal work or at airports, university campus, resorts etc. where they would mingle with normal traffic (although technically on private property).

In the states, Golf cars (and their variants) can be built as "street legal" low speed vehicles and can be operated on public roads (according to local laws).

I'd imagine that a golf cart would have the same standing as, say, a fork lift that has to cross a road from one yard to another.

yoyo

Do you know something, just the other day my Dad was picking me up from windy Arbor luas and I asked him the same question passing this course! He said that the Gards should use common sense in such a situation but it probably is not legal, which would be quite obvious, as any motorised vehicle on a roads needs a license which these don't have. It must be a grey area but I wonder would the club be liable if a buggy was involved in a crash?
At this point they cross there are lights at one end but iirc theres another entrance further down with no lights, so a non alert buggy driver could collide with a car!

Nick

coylemj

You typically find three grades of mobility among golf club members, the younger members use regular trolleys which they pull behind them, older members use battery propelled trolleys which run in front of them like a one-handed lawn mower and the really infirm members use golf cars.

Which of those three categories of people would you let loose on a golf car across a busy road?

bath handle

It is a wealthy club. They should have a tunnel under the road.

coylemj

bath handle wrote: »

It is a wealthy club. They should have a tunnel under the road.

The club isn't wealthy, the members probably are but as they get older they are less and less likely to cough up for capital spending that involves once-off levies on the members. A rising median age is a feature of all the older golf clubs in the city many of whose club houses are falling down from neglect.

NUTLEY BOY

If a pedestrian was knocked down by a negligently driven buggy (assume no issue on civil liability) who would pay ?

In the first instance I expect that both the driver and the owner of the buggy would be liable.

Suppose that the owner and or driver had not got the resources to pay the plaintiff pedestrian's damages and there is an unsatisfied judgment ? Would the Motor Insurers' Bureau pick that up ?

Suppose that the driver of the buggy was hopelessly plastered. Could the Gardai charge him with drink driving ? Assume that the place at which the driver is apprehended during the course of driving is a public place with the meaning of the RTAs.

bath handle

coylemj wrote: »

bath handle wrote: »

It is a wealthy club. They should have a tunnel under the road.

The club isn't wealthy, the members probably are but as they get older they are less and less likely to cough up for capital spending that involves once-off levies on the members. A rising median age is a feature of all the older golf clubs in the city many of whose club houses are falling down from neglect.

It is a co~operative club, so if the members are wealthy, the club is wealthy.

BrianD

NUTLEY BOY wrote: »

If a pedestrian was knocked down by a negligently driven buggy (assume no issue on civil liability) who would pay ?

In the first instance I expect that both the driver and the owner of the buggy would be liable.

Suppose that the owner and or driver had not got the resources to pay the plaintiff pedestrian's damages and there is an unsatisfied judgment ? Would the Motor Insurers' Bureau pick that up ?

Suppose that the driver of the buggy was hopelessly plastered. Could the Gardai charge him with drink driving ? Assume that the place at which the driver is apprehended during the course of driving is a public place with the meaning of the RTAs.

The buggy is probably on hire from the club so the club would have to have the relevant insurance.

I think the confusion is that because it looks like a car and behaves like a car is it a car? If I went down the road in a canoe with wheels would I need a drivers licence?

If it was involved in an accident you'd be suing the golf club. Drink driving charge would be probelmatic. They'd probably get you on a related alcohol charge.

coylemj

bath handle wrote: »

It is a co~operative club, so if the members are wealthy, the club is wealthy.

Are you implying that the members are personally liable if the club goes bust with debts it can't pay?

slimjimmc

BrianD wrote: »

The buggy is probably on hire from the club so the club would have to have the relevant insurance.

But it's a mechanically propelled vehicle so it's up to the driver to ensure he is properly insured to drive the buggy on a public road is it not?
Surely then any compensation suit would probably be against the driver in the first instance, with the owners being partially liable for allowing the driver use it in a public place without insurance.

BrianD wrote: »

I think the confusion is that because it looks like a car and behaves like a car is it a car? If I went down the road in a canoe with wheels would I need a drivers licence?

Yes if it was a mechanically propelled canoe, just like if it was a mechanically propelled buggy.

BrianD wrote: »

If it was involved in an accident you'd be suing the golf club. Drink driving charge would be probelmatic. They'd probably get you on a related alcohol charge.

Surely the driver will be the primary target with the club as a co-defendant?

Victor

Building an underpass for a golf buggy probably wouldn't be prohibitive.

NUTLEY BOY wrote: »

Suppose that the driver of the buggy was hopelessly plastered. Could the Gardai charge him with drink driving ? Assume that the place at which the driver is apprehended during the course of driving is a public place with the meaning of the RTAs.

Yes. However, they might go for an alternative public order charge, depending on the circumstances.

BrianD wrote: »

The buggy is probably on hire from the club so the club would have to have the relevant insurance.

Would the insurance apply only on the grounds or would it cover the public road?

I think the confusion is that because it looks like a car and behaves like a car is it a car? If I went down the road in a canoe with wheels would I need a drivers licence?

Does it have a motor? I wonder what the position is with the amphibious DUKWs used by Viking Splash Tours.

If it was involved in an accident you'd be suing the golf club.

Its quite possible the club and their insurers would deny responsibility.

coylemj wrote: »

A rising median age is a feature of all the older golf clubs in the city many of whose club houses are falling down from neglect.

Not in the city. Only Elm Park, Clontarf, St. Anne's and Royal Dublin clubs are in the city.

seamus

I don't think "road legal" is a factor here. The law would recognise that there is a difference between using a public road in general and crossing a public road for the purposes of access.

To the best of my knowledge, insurance (or licences) is not required for work vehicles when moving the vehicle from one section of private land to another - think of a farmer driving his tractor from one field, across and 100m down the road to another field.
I'm open to correction on that though.

A golf buggy would fall (very loosely) within the definition of a work vehicle:

' work vehicle ' means a vehicle, incapable of exceeding 24 miles per hour, which is constructed primarily for any work other than the conveyance by road of goods or burden of any other description and which when used on a public road for the conveyance of a load in connection with a loading, unloading, lifting or dumping operation is so used only at the site at which it is being worked or within a radius of half a mile from the site."

"The site" would be the golf course. The "load" being conveyed is the passengers and their golf clubs.

Provided that the club's public liability insurance included injuries caused by the buggies, then they would not need to be road legal/road tested or registered or any of that, unless they were being used for a purpose other than moving golfers around the golf course (i.e. you couldn't run a shuttle service to the B&B down the road on the buggies).

coylemj

Victor wrote: »

Not in the city. Only Elm Park, Clontarf, St. Anne's and Royal Dublin clubs are in the city.

Technically you are correct, I probably should have said 'Dublin' instead of 'the city' as I was referring to the golf clubs located in urban areas around Dublin, my remarks were intended to include all of the courses in the city and the three county councils.

In particular there is one club in South Dublin Co. Co. of which a friend of mine is a member, he would be well below the median age. A few years ago (during the boom) the club proposed a one-off levy on members to do some essential building and maintenance work but the members voted it down, probably because most of them are so old that they figured they wouldn't be around long enough to enjoy the benefits of the improvements!

BrianD

Victor wrote: »

Building an underpass for a golf buggy probably wouldn't be prohibitive.Yes. However, they might go for an alternative public order charge, depending on the circumstances.

Why build when you can just drive across. A form of traffic light controlled crossing would be the logical solution.

Would the insurance apply only on the grounds or would it cover the public road?

I'm would guess that the factor this crossing into their cover.

Does it have a motor? I wonder what the position is with the amphibious DUKWs used by Viking Splash Tours.

Gold cars are either electric or petrol engine driven. Some of the bigger utility vehicles that have evolved out of golf car design are diesel engined. The DUKW's on the Splash tour are registered as road vehicles - not sure what exact class the fall under!

Its quite possible the club and their insurers would deny responsibility.
Not in the city. Only Elm Park, Clontarf, St. Anne's and Royal Dublin clubs are in the city.

There's a lot of other golf clubs in the city environs but none that I know that have a crossing like Milltown. There are clubs in the country where golfers would cross roads.

Don't think the golf club could deny liability if the hire out the carts, know that the have to cross the road and have probably designed the access points at the road to allow carts to pass through.

Milk & Honey

BrianD wrote: »

Why build when you can just drive across. A form of traffic light controlled crossing would be the logical solution.

Driving across is hazardous. A traffic controlled crossing would cause delay to golf games while waiting for the light to change. traffic lights also require maintenance.