possible sexual assault by friend's boyfriend

LegacyUser

Going unreg.

my story involves three people.(fake names of course)
Sarah, my old friend from primary school -not suuuper close, but we are old friends
Dave -her boyfriend
Paul -one of my best friends, who I have hooked up with in the past, but it's now just platonic.

I'm living in Australia for a year, and one day I get a phonecall. It's some guy heavy breathing, and I assume it's a guy I'm seeing at the time messing around, and flirtily ask "who is this?"
i get the reply "It's Dave".
I hang up right away, and feel physically sick. Me and Dave are not friends, we don't call each other, EVER, and for him to phone my mobile while i'm in Australia makes it even weirder. I immediately go on facebook and send him a message saying "what the ****? why did you call me?"
and he writes back saying "only messing!" with a smiley face.
I leave it at that, because technically he didn't say anything wrong on the phone and I feel sill about saying "your boyfriend called me and breathed!" I mean, he said it was a joke and I feel I can't argue with that. I figure it must have been a drunken joke, and if i mention it to her maybe she'll think i'm trying to cause problems or something. So I just forget about it. Looking back i should have at least casually mentioned it to her.

A year later, I'm back home and my friend Paul and I go on a night out with the two of them. The plan is for me and Paul to stay in their guest room, and when I wake up there the next morning next to Paul I can remember little about the night before, and figure we partied quite hard. Then I see my underwear on the floor. This is odd to me for two reasons -first, that I would take my underwear off at all when sleeping in bed with a platonic friend, and second, (and sorry this is gross) but I was near the end of my period, and my undies had a pad intact, and drunk or not, I cannot imagine just leaving that lying there. At this point i also notice some blood on the top of the duvet, and assume it's my fault even though I don't understand how it got there. I put my undies back on and get back into bed. I realise I feel kind of tender, and think "did me and Paul fool around last night?!?!". While we're platonic friends, we have fooled around in the past, and it wouldn't be the end of the world to me if we had again, so i don't dwell on it.

a while later me and Paul wake up and are chatting and then he goes
"so what about last night?"
and I was like "yeah, seriously!"
and he goes "so.. you and Dave?"
i just started laughing, completely assuming he was joking. he starts saying "seriously, what was going on with you two?"
and I continue to think he's kidding and trying to gross me out (Dave is a complete uggo and I wouldn't touch him with a stick).
Then Paul says that he remembers waking up at one point, and I'm in the bed next to him, and Daves on top of me and we were making out, and he said he thought I was giggling.
Even writing this I feel sick. I can't emphasise how much I think he's kidding.
I keep saying that's ridicouls... because I think Dave is gross, and because his girlfriend was in the next room so how could that happen, and because I was in bed next to Paul, how could that happen, and say 'if you really saw that, wouldn't you have stopped it?!?" and he just said he didn't really know what to think/do, and had been kind of drunk. i still refused to believe it. he either dreamed it, or he's joking.

then I ask him if he remembers me and him fooling around. He says he doesn't and then I start to panic, and explain how I feel tender down there, so that if we didn't fool around , and he saw Dave on top of me then.... and he butts in and says "no, no, don't be silly.. you were just kissing".... basically saying there's no way sex happened, sounding confident of it, but really there's no way he knows this. he doesn't remember Dave entering or leaving, just seeing him on top of me.
I'm starting to panic and he says "look, maybe we fooled around. in fact, we probably did, i'm sure that's the reason you feel tender."
but it's obvious he's only saying this to calm me down. I check his hands for any period blood and there is none. Still, I sort of cling to this explanation, that me and him MUST have fooled around, and that he must have dreamt the bit about Dave being on me. I do this because the idea of Dave coming in..with Paul there and his girlfriend next door, and me finding him repulsive and having no memory of it just seems too crazy. So this is what I believe, and we all go out for breakfast together and I don't say anything and feel knotted up but keep telling myself what to believe.

A year later, I get a phonecall. Someone heavy breathing, like they're jerking off. I keep asking hello,clueless to who it is, and then a guy says "do you wanna have phone sex?" and instantly I recognise the voice as Dave's. I don't know anyone with a similar voice. I hang up. I feel ill. I don't know what to do. It's a withheld number and I can't prove anything. But I'm so sure I recognised his voice, and then I remember he called me two years ago, and then I remember the whole incident above and I go over the details again, and feel sick. I talk to Paul... I ask him to seriously seriously tell me if there's a chance he dreamed up the bit about Dave on me. He says he saw Dave on me. He says he's pretty damn positive me and him didn't fool around. I explain that if what he's saying is true then it's most likely that Dave didn't just kiss me, he put SOMETHING in my vagina. Paul then says "well maybe we fooled around then, i'm sure Dave didn't do THAT", but again, he doesn't sound convincing, he sounds like he's trying to calm me and i get the feeling he's not taking the whole thing very seriously.

I tell two other friends about the incident and they both think, from the details and fromwhat Paul says, that more than kissing happened with Dave.

I just feel sick. I wish I could go back in time. If i had believed what Paul told me that morning I could have marched right into Dave and Sarah's bedroom and said "listen to what Paul just told me!" and dealt with it then and there. I just feel like.. I can't prove anything. I can't prove this recent phonecall was him. And as for the incident... if i remembered even a moment of it myself, I would tell her, but it's all Paul's words,and he doesnt seem to believe anything further happened. I feel like I can't testify to her that her boyfriend did anything, when I don't actually remember any of it.

I don't know what to do, and I don't know what advice to expect.
Sarah and Dave have a baby together, so I can't just go throwing around accusations.
I know that I can't ever be in the same room as him again, and whether than means faking sick at christmas or whatever, I'll manage it.

I guess I just want to know what others would do in my situation. Thanks.

Danniboo

OP, firstly god awful situation to be in. I have to say though who goes out and gets absolutely wasted to the point of being obvlivious knowing they'll be staying in a house with a fell they already think is an absolute perv. And sleeping in a bed with a guy friend in just underwear(correct me if i'm wrong but you never mentioned being missing pyjamas) while you have your lady friends is just nasty in my opinion. Secondly why would Paul not say anything if you and some guy where getting it on in the same bed beside him? Why would he say you were giggling?

OP if you really do think that he assaulted you you should talk to your friend and the guards? Though your friend probably will ask why you didn't tell her sooner? The guards might be able to check these calls if they believe its a serious incident, which obviously if he assaulted you it is.

OP I think you should really take better care not to get this wasted on nights out around this sleaze or other strange men, and just in general really.

woodchuck

I think the only way this could be physical assault is if you were drugged. Do you think that’s possible or were you just really drunk? If you were drunk, he might have been taking advantage of your altered mental state, but it’s not actually assault. I know you think you would never fool around with him, but is it possible he came into the room during the night, started kissing you etc and you mistook him for Paul? Even if Paul doesn’t think you and Dave actually had sex next to him, he could’ve been fingering you roughly, which would leave you feeling tender.

As for the phone calls… the first one you don’t really have enough to go on to make conclusions about it. The 2nd one is obviously bad, but you don’t have any actual proof it was Dave, so without that I would be reluctant to tell your friend. Does your phone have any sort of recording functionality? If so, work out how to use at the press of a button, so if this happens again you could record the conversation and have solid proof to go to your friend with. And make sure to confirm that it actually is Dave. Or if you’re not interested in catching him out and just don’t want it to happen again, then look into blocking his number and obviously be on guard around him.

Whether or not you decide to tell your friend is up to you, but just be prepared for doubt as you don’t have much to go on and you don’t even know yourself what happened that night. She might blame you just as much as him if you were both drunk.

dafunk

Danniboo, you're being extremely judgmental and not at all helpful to the OP.

Firstly, yes she didn't like Dave but she was there with two other friends and had no reason to not feel safe.

Secondly, she doesn't know what she wore to bed, and even if she did get into bed with her platonic friend in only her underwear there is nothing wrong with that and period or no period it is not gross. Paul is her friend and she trusts him and she did t do anything wrong.

Thirdly, all young people go out and get drunk, We're not here to judge but to advise.

OP: My suggestion would be to tell the guards, perhaps Paul would go with you and explain what he saw. Unfortunately with no medical exam there mightn't be much of a case. I also think you should tell your friend, she mightnt believe you, she might fall out with you but she deserves to know what type of person her bf is.

KittyeeTrix

OP, it would be difficult to establish any sort of case with regards the allegation of a sexual assault in the bed by Dave, because of the time elapsed and also because of the alcohol leading to gaps in the information!:(

You do however know that this Dave has rang you twice inappropriately so you could tell your friend this and let her know you do not want to ever be in the company of or contacted by Dave again.....

Danniboo

dafunk wrote: »

Danniboo, you're being extremely judgmental and not at all helpful to the OP.

Firstly, yes she didn't like Dave but she was there with two other friends and had no reason to not feel safe.

Secondly, she doesn't know what she wore to bed, and even if she did get into bed with her platonic friend in only her underwear there is nothing wrong with that and period or no period it is not gross. Paul is her friend and she trusts him and she did t do anything wrong.

Thirdly, all young people go out and get drunk, We're not here to judge but to advise.

OP: My suggestion would be to tell the guards, perhaps Paul would go with you and explain what he saw. Unfortunately with no medical exam there mightn't be much of a case. I also think you should tell your friend, she mightnt believe you, she might fall out with you but she deserves to know what type of person her bf is.

I'm not being judgemental, I understand we all get too drunk, my concern is that the OP got oblviously drunk around a guy that she clearly had concerns about, do you not think she needs to take better care in these situations?

Maybe the whole period thing is acceptable to most people,but I personally wouldn't do it, that's just my view of things.

What kind of mutual friend is Paul if he woke up to the two of them in the bed doing whatever, knowing his gf who has a baby is next door, why would he not say or do anything? Then he tries to defend Dave the next day and says it was them that fooled around.

OP they don't sound like great friends to be honest. You need to start looking after number one more OP.

Oryx

Daniboo and anyone else. To tell the op they shouldnt have done it is asking them to shut the stable door after the horse has bolted. Dont use this thread to tell the op stuff like that, address their issue from this point on, with help for them now.

Danniboo

Oryx wrote: »

Daniboo and anyone else. To tell the op they shouldnt have done it is asking them to shut the stable door after the horse has bolted. Dont use this thread to tell the op stuff like that, address their issue from this point on, with help for them now.

Apologies

seamus

Unfortunately because as you self-admittedly cannot remember anything from that night, you have no basis on which to assume that sexual contact took place or was non-consensual. From your friend's description, any activity sounded consensual, and if you all partied pretty hard then Dave could likely have been as obliterated as you were.

In other words, it sounds from your friend's description of the story that you and Dave both got completely obliterated and did something stupid. Happens to lots of people. I think most people have a least one memory from a heavy night's drinking that makes them feel like a complete idiot, and while most of the time it's not all that serious, it's something you just have to learn from and move on from.

Although he may be a complete creep, you have nothing on which to base any assumption of sexual assault, you can't even suspect an assault because you remember nothing, so I think it would be very inappropriate and unfair to make such a complaint against him.
Creep or not, sexual assault is a very serious thing and just because he has made advances towards you, does not follow on that he would assault you while drunk.

In any case, from the phonecalls and the fact that he's happy enough to cheat on his girlfriend, you know what kind of guy Dave is and you can ignore him accordingly. If the girlfriend does ask why you've gone so cold on him, then you can tell her about the phonecalls.

ted1

OP,

were you on contraceptives? if you weren't and your gut was that you needed the MAP. then i'd go with your gut feeling. sounds like Paul, is tryin gto be nice to you by not worrying you but is actual being more of a pain.

look it avoid this guy, and mention the phone calls to your friend. something like "keep your boyfrined and a short lead"

Miss Fluff

goinganonymous wrote: »

I can't prove anything. I can't prove this recent phonecall was him. And as for the incident... if i remembered even a moment of it myself, I would tell her, but it's all Paul's words,and he doesnt seem to believe anything further happened. I feel like I can't testify to her that her boyfriend did anything, when I don't actually remember any of it.

I don't know what to do, and I don't know what advice to expect.
Sarah and Dave have a baby together, so I can't just go throwing around accusations.
I know that I can't ever be in the same room as him again, and whether than means faking sick at christmas or whatever, I'll manage it.

I guess I just want to know what others would do in my situation. Thanks.

That's it in a nutshell. Despite you feeling that something untoward happen, you cannot go accusing anyone of anything when you don't know yourself what happened. There is nothing you can do.

He may have assaulted you. He may not. You may in your drunkeness have been well up for it. The common element here is that you simply don't know. Paul doesn't seem to know. Chances are the only person who knows is this creep Dave who sounds like quite the catch :rolleyes: So there is nothing you can do.

If you want ,you could go to some lengths to try and snare him/get him to confess to you but I think your chances of success are highly unlikely.

I'd be avoiding him and avoiding Sarah at all costs and permanently. He has already demonstrated himself to be slimey and creepy so listen to your gut and avoid seeing him again.

I know the horse has bolted, I get that. But I do feel it's important that you address how you drink. If you are that severely incapacitated and drink to the extent that you literally have no recollection of events over the course of an evening then you need to address that as a matter of priority. To be an endangerement to onself like that is scary.

curlzy

Hey OP,

Well that really is very very crappy. I don't think there's much you can do about any of it to be honest. I don't think you can go to the gaurds or his gf and say "I think Dave may have creepily phoned me a couple of times and he may have had sex with me but I don't know". I can't really see it going anywhere and could get you into a nasty situation with your mate and her BF. If you did go to the gaurds etc and he hasn't done anything wrong you could be ruining a guy's reputation for nothing more than being a bit of a creep. I'm not going to tell you to drink less etc etc because I don't think you went out that night thinking "oh I'm gonna get so drunk I won't have a clue what's going on", I think I can safely say we've all been there. I'm had some major sessions where tbh I could have done anything and not known about it, fortunately my bf is usally with me and he's 6.3, massive and very protective so I'm generally in safe hands (I don't go out intending on needing to be looked after but sometimes it's easy to get carried away). I know none of that is helpful but I would suggest that you try to let it go if you can, it may be that nothing happened but either way it's not something I can see you getting a definate answer to. Maybe get an STI check just in case? If you really are very upset and confused about it maybe ring the rape crisis centre (I know you're not saying you were raped) and ask for their advice? I'd say they'd at the very least be someone you can talk to and they might be able to help you figure it out and move on from.

I just want to say that you're in a horrible situation and you have my sympathy, I hope you can feel better soon.

discus

Maybe go to see a therapist, or a councillor. Save yourself from having issues in a few years.

analucija

It's pity you didn't get tested for date rape drug at the time. There is very little you can do now except block his number and avoid them.

ppink

goinganonymous wrote: »

I guess I just want to know what others would do in my situation. Thanks.

I would say nothing to Sarah, Paul or Dave or anyone about it again as there is no proof of anything except that you were "making out" with one guy and another one heard you "giggling". Obviously the platonic friend you were in bed with did not think you were in distress with the other guy.

then I would get a serious grip on my drinking and be certain of no spiking of anything ever.......ie buy your own and keep it with you all the time.


then I would get check for any diseases.

I would probably get some form of councelling also.

I am a friend

I got really really drunk once and ended up
Fooling round with someone I shouldn't. I didnt fancy or even like the guy involved and had never even thought about him in that way... I suspect you are in the same boat here.

It's unlikely if he drugged you that he molested you on the same bed as your mutual friend. Chances are you don't remember agreeing to this and let's be Frank, if you were giggling it doesn't look like he was forcing you to do anything. Sorry but I think the booze was to blame here so I would do nothing other than avoid this guy and your 'friend' for everyones sake.

gargleblaster

goinganonymous wrote: »

Neither before or after this incident have I ever had memory loss like this after drinking, or woken up not knowing why my underwear is off. This was the only time something like this happened.

Chances are good that you were drugged. If you weren't blackout drunk, there is no other explanation.

Since this individual has obviously had a thing for you for years, and has made obscene calls to you while jerking himself off, it's not exactly inconceivable that he would do such a thing.

Good luck dealing with it, do go see a counselor as they will help you deal with the sick feelings resulting from what was done to you.

evry1sm8

Danniboo wrote: »

Maybe the whole period thing is acceptable to most people,but I personally wouldn't do it, that's just my view of things.

I wouldnt even sleep in the bed with my other half in just my undies when I have my period...
So I suppose it depends on the person, but to me it is also gross.

LegacyUser

OP here. My last post hasn't shown up, so reposting. Thanks for the replies. Would just like to clear a few things up.

Neither before nor since this incident have I ever had a similar experience with alcohol where I've woken up and not known what happened. This was a one off occasion, I do not have ongoing issues with alcohol.

For those that asked, yes I was on the pill, and I have since had an STI check and was given the all clear, thankfully.

I know I have no proof of anything, and have no intention of either approaching the police about what happened or making accusations to his girlfriend. I wouldn't do anything like that without proof. I think I was more looking for advice for how to handle it personally/emotionally.

Those that suggested a drink could have been spiked, another friend I spoke to sad the same thing. I wish I had thought to get tested the next day. I didn't feel ill the next morning (apart from what I assumed was just a hangover) but I've never suffered such blanket memory loss like that before. also -again not proof, but might be worth mentioning Dave was up early and full of energy the next morning and wasn't hungover at all.

To those preoccupied with my period, the point I was making was that I wouldn't usually ever take my undies off in bed during my period and especially with a friend next to me. This is why I was very confused to wake up and see my undies on the floor. And I suppose, my fear is they were removed from me.

Those that suggested speaking with a counselor, I might do that alright. I had managed to put it out of my mind until this recent phonecall and since it happened I can't stop thinking about it.

I also plan to never be in the same room as him again.

I did call the police about the phonecalls and was told there was nothing they could do to unless I amassed a great deal more of them.

I agree, it was weird of Paul not to do anything. I don't fully understand why he didn't. As one poster said, it sounds like he tried to minimise what happened to protect my feelings. I also think this could be true because he maybe doesn't want to get dragged into a big conflict (he's the only witness after all) with the couple. Personally I wonder if he added in the bit about me giggling after I started panicking, to make it seem like it was mutual. I really can't stress how difficult I find it to believe it could have been mutual, as Dave really physically repulses me.

Also to those who keep saying I may have been "up for it", I'd just like to reiterate that i went to bed with Paul, where I belonged, and we were under the duvet. Dave was on top of me, on top of the duvet, in the guest room -where he didn't belong. I didn't go into his room, looking for him. I was in bed and he came into the room and got on top of me. While I was very drunk. He came into the guest room, he got on top of me. Just think about that for a minute please because it's a very important detail.
I feel extremely grossed out and upset by this whole thing, and for people to imply that "maybe I wanted it, maybe I liked it" is pretty awful.
(I'd also like to point out that a very drunk person can't give consent. bear that in mind)

Thanks again for the replies. I feel a bit better just having it out here.

Neyite

Jesus.

She is wondering if she was sexually assaulted. Thats why the OP made the point about being on her period and why her underwear and sanitary protection was on the floor. That she would never normally have removed her underwear if she was on her period, especially sharing a bed with a friend and certainly not chucked a dirty sanitary towel on the floor like that. Surely you can see she is wondering if they were taken off her.

OP, unfortunatly, you have little proof, however I would seriously limit your time spent in this mans company, and if you do have to be around him, make sure you stay sober. I would also suggest counselling -make an appointment with the rape crisis centre. I am sure that they have heard similar tales and have the experience to help you move on from this.

Ickle Magoo

evry1sm8 wrote: »

I wouldnt even sleep in the bed with my other half in just my undies when I have my period...
So I suppose it depends on the person, but to me it is also gross.

If you have no constructive advice to offer the OP on the issue they have posted about, kindly refrain from posting.

Be aware that off-topic and unhelpful posting can earn you a ban from this forum.

If you haven't already done so, please take the time to read the [URL=" http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056181484"]forum rules[/URL] in the charter.

Many thanks.

Kimia

Oh god OP, you poor thing. I can only imagine how awful you feel. I think the only thing you can really do is try your best to put it behind you. You don't know what happened that night, Paul doesn't seem to know what he's on about and there doesn't seem to be any way to find out, bar asking Dave.

Ignore the morons who are obsessed with telling you you're disgusting for sleeping in a bed while on your period, what are women supposed to do - sleep outside in the back garden because we're unclean? Unreal. :rolleyes:

Try and put it behind you and never be near that guy Dave again.

thefeatheredcat

goinganonymous wrote: »

I agree, it was weird of Paul not to do anything. I don't fully understand why he didn't. As one poster said, it sounds like he tried to minimise what happened to protect my feelings.

Op, what a dreadful ordeal! My heart really goes out to you.
On the subject of the phone calls, you mention you've told a couple of friends about it, but did you mention this to Paul? The reason I ask is that on his side, are things truly platonic from his perception between ye? I would agree that his reaction is more of a reaction of someone who is not just trying to protect your feelings, but I suspect his too? Just a suggestion something that occurred to me and would wonder if he knew about the calls, would he clarify that oddness about his inaction?

Apart from changing your number and making sure Dave doesn't have it, keep a log of the phone calls that you get and the frequency and whatever detail you can log about it should they happen again. Maybe even keep a whistle to deafen the ear of the caller? I don't know how good an idea that is really, but it might deter?

The best thing that you can do is be open about this with yourself and those close to you that you trust; I would recommend speaking to Rape Crisis like others have said, even counselling to deal with the emotional side and gaining closure on the situation.

lace

Hi OP!

What a horrible situation to be in!

It might be no harm to talk to the Rape Crisis Centre. They'll be able to offer advice and guidance on this issue. I know you can't be sure whether or not you were assaulted and you can't prove it but they will still be able to offer you confidential support.

The Miriam Webster dictionary defines sexual assault as : " illegal sexual contact that usually involves force upon a person without consent or is inflicted upon a person who is incapable of giving consent (as because of age or physical or mental incapacity) or who places the assailant (as a doctor) in a position of trust or authority."

If a person is not in a fit state to give full knowing consent then it is still sexual assault. The reason for this inability to consent is irrelevant (ie : the victim may have gotten so drunk that they don't know what they're doing but this still does not give anyone the right to coerce them into unwanted sexual contact).

As you can't prove that this assault happened, however, the police probably won't be able to help you. Whether or not you tell your female friend about what happened will be difficult. I know you don't want to go dragging Paul into things, can't prove that Dave assaulted you (or even called you) and that this could cause a lot of trouble in your friendship but do you really want this woman and her baby living with a man who is at best a creepy phonecall maker who asks to have phone sex with her friends and at worst possibly guilty of sexual assault?

Just in case they happen again - keep a record of any strange phonecalls - note down the date, time and what was said and whether or not there was anyone else present. You could block calls from unknown numbers but this can be problematic if some of your other friends or contacts like to keep their numbers on private.

You're absolutely right to steer clear of Dave and try to put it all behind you.

LegacyUser

I think you should try to find out exactly what happened by trying to get it out of Dave himself. Confront him privately(but in a safe area that has people nearby) about the sleazy phonecalls, and whatever his reaction to this is, throw in the line, "what makes you think you can make these types of calls to me, I never have and never would in my life touch you with a bargepole!"
Mean thing to say, but if anything did happen between you and him, this should provoke him, and he will almost certainly react by saying, "well you were happy enough to sleep with me that other night", or if he doesn't mention sleeping together but mentions the kissing, you could say "that was a drunken kiss, I thought you were Paul, it's not like anything else that happened that night is worth mentioning", to which if you did have sex, he might reply "what about the sex?" or something along those lines.

By phrasing these things in a certain way, you are giving him the impression that you remember everything from the night, but secretly you will actually be sussing out more information by judging his replies. My reason for doing this, is that I would be wary of admitting to him that you don't remember anything, and of just asking him straight out. I would be wary because a date rape drug would still be a possibility and fear to me, and I would suspect that he would just deny anything if you asked him straight out. If a date rape drug was involved, it should scare him that you seem to remember everything,but as you are acting like that you feel it was just a drunken mistake he might feel brazen enough to make comments about the kisses or sex or whatever happened. He might not mention anything at all though, to which you could switch to saying "what were you thinking coming to my room making a move on me when your girlfriend was next door?", again try to judge from his replies the full story of what happened.

Another possible theory has crossed my mind after reading your story, but I admit it seems very unlikely.
You say that you and Paul have slept together a few times in the past, but that for the last while, you two have been strictly platonic friends.
Paul was very drunk aswell, and you two were sharing a bed. Is there any chance that Paul tried it on with you, but that maybe you suddenly conked out or fell asleep, and that if removing your underwear had already just occurred, he suddenly realised you were on your period after noticing the pad. So then the situation is, he was close to having sex with you,and has removed your underwear, but then you have conked out and he realises you have your period, so he is a guy who is now supposed to be just just platonic friends with you, who has found himself in bed with you, in what he thinks could be interpreted the wrong way by you, as him taking advantage of you, or trying to have sex with you while you were passed out or too drunk.

He sees your underwear with pad on the ground, and panics thinking I can't put these back on her. What is she going to say when she sees her underwear on the ground? Will she remember us kissing? How do I explain making a move on her when we are meant to be just friends now, it might ruin our friendship.

Is there any chance at all that he might have just made up the story about dave kissing you, to cover something he felt embarrassed or worried about?
Is there any chance Paul and you did hook up, but in a very drunk or drugged state, he dreamt that it had happened with you and Dave? Had you already told him that you found Dave to be pervy and sleazy? Is there any chance he made the story, but that when you started panicking, he realised what he had done was wrong, and that is why he stated or half admitted saying that you and him probably had infact hooked up?
Again this is probably very unlikely as you are such good friends with him, but maybe it is a longshot possibility.

I just find it incredibly weird that a man nomatter how sleazy, would risk going into a bedroom next door to try it on with another woman, not only when his wife or girlfriend was right there, but also when the woman who he was trying it on with was in bed with another male friend! And then for that male friend to do absolutely nothing whilst an affair was happening right in the bed beside him, with the man's girlfriend next door, and knowing full well that you his female friend were repulsed by this man. That makes no sense to me whatsoever. If Dave was committing a date rape sexual assault, he would have been taking a huge nonsensical risk to commit it in the same bed as your male best friend! Not to say it couldn't have happened, anything is possible it just all seems so crazy to me though. Even attempting a consensual sexual encounter in that situation is crazy.

It could of course be that Dave was absolutely out of it aswell, to explain his behavior, but you said he was very refreshed and full of energy in the morning so that seems a bit unlikely.

Try your best to get as much information as you can from Dave. If I was you, I would just have to know exactly what happened. I could not deal with a situation where I didn't know if a certain man might have had sex with me or not.
If he seems to completely lack any knowledge of even the kissing occurring, then I would again question your friend to see if he was mistaken about something, or if there was a possibility that it was the two of you who had actually kissed not you and Dave. You mentioned that you would actually be ok if this is what had happened, so let him know this. His story does sound a bit all over the place, and he really doesn't seem to want you to push it any further. He 's doing everything to make you feel that nothing bad happened, that you just kissed Dave.

The 3rd possibility is of course that just exactly what Paul said occurred. You were very drunk, so was Dave. He staggers in to the room in a drunken state, tries it on with you. You in an equally drunken state, perhaps even in the dark thinking it was Paul, kiss him back. Paul sees that you are under the duvet and Dave is on top of the duvet. You are just kissing. Dave leaves quickly after realising Paul is awake. You conk out. In your sleep, or in a later very drunken moment remove your underwear forgetting where you are or that you have your period. You feel tender because of your period, or possibly precisely because you have started to get these fears in your head that something might have happened.
It could be as clear cut as that.

However, regardless of how unlikely due to the risk I find it that a date rape drug or sexual assault might have occurred, (again this is mainly due to the risk for Dave involved,) this whole story just seems very off and frightening. The fact that you have never blacked out from drink before, the fact that Dave was up early completely fine and full of energy, the fact that he may have masturbated over the phone to you, and gave a creepy call to you when you were in Australia, and finally the fact that sexual assaults can and HAVE happened before to people in these risky for the perpetrator situations, would make me not totally rule out the chance that an assault occurred.

You might never know what fully happened. All you can do is try your best to find out as much as possible, and attend some counselling.

I agree that after your discussion with Dave that you should try to avoid him and Sarah in the future. I would not feel comfortable or safe around a man who made those types of sleazy calls when he has a girlfriend, and a man who may or may not have had sexual contact with you, with his girlfriend next door.

Danniboo

Kimia wrote: »

Oh god OP, you poor thing. I can only imagine how awful you feel. I think the only thing you can really do is try your best to put it behind you. You don't know what happened that night, Paul doesn't seem to know what he's on about and there doesn't seem to be any way to find out, bar asking Dave.

Ignore the morons who are obsessed with telling you you're disgusting for sleeping in a bed while on your period, what are women supposed to do - sleep outside in the back garden because we're unclean? Unreal. :rolleyes:

Try and put it behind you and never be near that guy Dave again.

PJs? No one is saying the OP is unclean.

OP just an idea, but do you have any other female friends who would be in the same circle of friends, could you speak to them about this? You never know, maybe that Dave sleaze has made similar phone calls/actions towards others?

Stench Blossoms

I'd go against what Danniboo said here about talking to other friends.

It might get back to Sarah that you were talking about her boyfriend. Now, obviously he's a creep but without proof of that it's a very strong accusation to make.

I think the worst part of this whole ordeal is the 'not knowing' what happened you.

Maybe speaking to the Rape Crisis Centre would be a good idea.

Danniboo

Stench Blossoms wrote: »

I'd go against what Danniboo said here about talking to other friends.

It might get back to Sarah that you were talking about her boyfriend. Now, obviously he's a creep but without proof of that it's a very strong accusation to make.

I think the worst part of this whole ordeal is the 'not knowing' what happened you.

Maybe speaking to the Rape Crisis Centre would be a good idea.

I'm not saying go and say Oh I think Dave did X, Y and Z to me. She could drop his name into conversation and ask something like innocent like do you get on with him etc?

Danniboo

Confont Dave wrote: »

I think you should try to find out exactly what happened by trying to get it out of Dave himself. Confront him privately(but in a safe area that has people nearby) about the sleazy phonecalls, and whatever his reaction to this is, throw in the line, "what makes you think you can make these types of calls to me, I never have and never would in my life touch you with a bargepole!"
Mean thing to say, but if anything did happen between you and him, this should provoke him, and he will almost certainly react by saying, "well you were happy enough to sleep with me that other night", or if he doesn't mention sleeping together but mentions the kissing, you could say "that was a drunken kiss, I thought you were Paul, it's not like anything else that happened that night is worth mentioning", to which if you did have sex, he might reply "what about the sex?" or something along those lines.

By phrasing these things in a certain way, you are giving him the impression that you remember everything from the night, but secretly you will actually be sussing out more information by judging his replies. My reason for doing this, is that I would be wary of admitting to him that you don't remember anything, and of just asking him straight out. I would be wary because a date rape drug would still be a possibility and fear to me, and I would suspect that he would just deny anything if you asked him straight out. If a date rape drug was involved, it should scare him that you seem to remember everything,but as you are acting like that you feel it was just a drunken mistake he might feel brazen enough to make comments about the kisses or sex or whatever happened. He might not mention anything at all though, to which you could switch to saying "what were you thinking coming to my room making a move on me when your girlfriend was next door?", again try to judge from his replies the full story of what happened.

Another possible theory has crossed my mind after reading your story, but I admit it seems very unlikely.
You say that you and Paul have slept together a few times in the past, but that for the last while, you two have been strictly platonic friends.
Paul was very drunk aswell, and you two were sharing a bed. Is there any chance that Paul tried it on with you, but that maybe you suddenly conked out or fell asleep, and that if removing your underwear had already just occurred, he suddenly realised you were on your period after noticing the pad. So then the situation is, he was close to having sex with you,and has removed your underwear, but then you have conked out and he realises you have your period, so he is a guy who is now supposed to be just just platonic friends with you, who has found himself in bed with you, in what he thinks could be interpreted the wrong way by you, as him taking advantage of you, or trying to have sex with you while you were passed out or too drunk.

He sees your underwear with pad on the ground, and panics thinking I can't put these back on her. What is she going to say when she sees her underwear on the ground? Will she remember us kissing? How do I explain making a move on her when we are meant to be just friends now, it might ruin our friendship.

Is there any chance at all that he might have just made up the story about dave kissing you, to cover something he felt embarrassed or worried about?
Is there any chance Paul and you did hook up, but in a very drunk or drugged state, he dreamt that it had happened with you and Dave? Had you already told him that you found Dave to be pervy and sleazy? Is there any chance he made the story, but that when you started panicking, he realised what he had done was wrong, and that is why he stated or half admitted saying that you and him probably had infact hooked up?
Again this is probably very unlikely as you are such good friends with him, but maybe it is a longshot possibility.

I just find it incredibly weird that a man nomatter how sleazy, would risk going into a bedroom next door to try it on with another woman, not only when his wife or girlfriend was right there, but also when the woman who he was trying it on with was in bed with another male friend! And then for that male friend to do absolutely nothing whilst an affair was happening right in the bed beside him, with the man's girlfriend next door, and knowing full well that you his female friend were repulsed by this man. That makes no sense to me whatsoever. If Dave was committing a date rape sexual assault, he would have been taking a huge nonsensical risk to commit it in the same bed as your male best friend! Not to say it couldn't have happened, anything is possible it just all seems so crazy to me though. Even attempting a consensual sexual encounter in that situation is crazy.

It could of course be that Dave was absolutely out of it aswell, to explain his behavior, but you said he was very refreshed and full of energy in the morning so that seems a bit unlikely.

Try your best to get as much information as you can from Dave. If I was you, I would just have to know exactly what happened. I could not deal with a situation where I didn't know if a certain man might have had sex with me or not.
If he seems to completely lack any knowledge of even the kissing occurring, then I would again question your friend to see if he was mistaken about something, or if there was a possibility that it was the two of you who had actually kissed not you and Dave. You mentioned that you would actually be ok if this is what had happened, so let him know this. His story does sound a bit all over the place, and he really doesn't seem to want you to push it any further. He 's doing everything to make you feel that nothing bad happened, that you just kissed Dave.

The 3rd possibility is of course that just exactly what Paul said occurred. You were very drunk, so was Dave. He staggers in to the room in a drunken state, tries it on with you. You in an equally drunken state, perhaps even in the dark thinking it was Paul, kiss him back. Paul sees that you are under the duvet and Dave is on top of the duvet. You are just kissing. Dave leaves quickly after realising Paul is awake. You conk out. In your sleep, or in a later very drunken moment remove your underwear forgetting where you are or that you have your period. You feel tender because of your period, or possibly precisely because you have started to get these fears in your head that something might have happened.
It could be as clear cut as that.

However, regardless of how unlikely due to the risk I find it that a date rape drug or sexual assault might have occurred, (again this is mainly due to the risk for Dave involved,) this whole story just seems very off and frightening. The fact that you have never blacked out from drink before, the fact that Dave was up early completely fine and full of energy, the fact that he may have masturbated over the phone to you, and gave a creepy call to you when you were in Australia, and finally the fact that sexual assaults can and HAVE happened before to people in these risky for the perpetrator situations, would make me not totally rule out the chance that an assault occurred.

You might never know what fully happened. All you can do is try your best to find out as much as possible, and attend some counselling.

I agree that after your discussion with Dave that you should try to avoid him and Sarah in the future. I would not feel comfortable or safe around a man who made those types of sleazy calls when he has a girlfriend, and a man who may or may not have had sexual contact with you, with his girlfriend next door.

Without trying to make things sound worse OP, it is also possible that you kissed both of them and Paul was blotto also and is confused by the situation, and didn't know what to say to you as he was hammered number one, and number two he's mortified because he realised you were on your period? If you are full sure OP that Dave was on top of the duvet as you said earlier then is it not possible that Paul, or you yourself removed your underwear?

OP, we can all go back and forward with different conspiracy theories and scenarios but I don't know how much thats going to help you. You should definitely go and speak to a counsellor. I think the best thing you can do is learn from this and move on, you need to establish boundaries between your male friends to avoid any sort of fuzzy hazy nights in the future. Maybe it's not the best idea to sleep beside a male friend half naked or not at all if you can avoid it. I say this because if Paul wasn't in the equation, you'd probably have a better idea of what went on. Look after yourself OP, hope you can move on from this xxx;)

catch me if you can

Ok look if this all happened 2 years ago i would say forget it now and dont be anywhere near this guy again . however as this guy phoned you again after all this time i would find this worrying. you cant avoid him forvever you may well end up in a situation where he is at some point. and he could be dangerous.
he could also have or will target some other woman in future.
he is also a father and it is disgusting that a man would treat a woman like this.
you need to tell his girlfriend and suffer the fallout that ensues. she needs to know that she has a man in the house that targets women sexually and makes obscene phonecalls.
my advice sit down with her and get her to read this post. bring your friend with you so he can back you up for the part he saw.
tell ur friend that due to this new phonecall you are considering going to the guards.
This is serious. If i found out my husband did this . Even the phonecalls alone. Frightening a woman like that. I would divirce him and he wud get no where near our child.

I am a friend

Op did you drink less than all the others that night? Was it just Paul who was extremely drunk?

catch me if you can

can i just add that teenage boys make prank phonecalls.
a grown man doing it , is worrying is dangerous and odd in the extreme.
unless im on another planet, wouldnt most people think, warning bells he is dangerous?

Danniboo

catch me if you can wrote: »

can i just add that teenage boys make prank phonecalls.
a grown man doing it , is worrying is dangerous and odd in the extreme.
unless im on another planet, wouldnt most people think, warning bells he is dangerous?

Of course thats why I was expressing concern about the OP returning to his house in a drunken state.

LegacyUser

OP, so sorry to hear about this.

Several friends of mind have been raped while drunk over the years and one friend was spiked I'm pretty sure, by a guy in a nightclub (but we managed to get her home safe that night). It happens. There are a lot of creeps around.
Raping someone who's unconscious drunk doesn't stop it being rape, in case there is any confusion among posters here.
As for the giggling? People who take rohypnol are not unconscious. They just have no memory of what has happened afterwards. I know that because I've been given rohypnol during medical procedures. Also they are uninhibited. They can even 'enjoy' the rape because they don't realise it's rape as the memory function is shut down. Of course, you don't know if you were spiked or raped while drunk so...

Contact rape crisis centre. It's incredibly unlikely you'll ever get to prosecute. This man sounds dangerous. In many ways it would be great if you were to tell the gf - as long as there are no consequences for you.

Please don't mind some of the pervious posters here. It doesn't sound like you did anything wrong.
Other advice... sadly these things happen. I know from friends experience and things that have happened to me in my life that it's best to acknowledge the hurt and anger but try then not to dwell on it and move on. I'm sure the rape crisis centre will have good advice.