Meeting the wrong men

LegacyUser

So I posted a thread on this topic a few months back but can't locate it.

I'm mid thirties, female, left home when I was 17. Financed myself through both an undergraduate and a postgraduate by working in an array of **** jobs on top of studying and now have a good job that I enjoy and is relatively well paid.

It doesn't bother me in the slightest how much money a man earns but I would love to meet a man who is ambitious and financially independent.

I was in a LTR with a guy for seven year that ended three years ago. One of the reasons we broke up is the fact that it drove me crazy that he couldn't / wouldn't hold down a job, commit to any project he started and basically made me feel like he was sponging off me all the time as he wasn't contributing to rent / bills. I couldn't see myself having kids with a man who couldn't manage to hold down a job.

Since splitting up with him I have had three short relationships, all with men aged 36 - 42.

Man 1 - Met him about two years ago, he was a tradesman, told me he had had five or six people working for him but had let them go due to the recession (fair enough). He was sharing a house with his brother. We went out for about six months and I was smitten, about four months into it I started realising that he was only working the odd day here and there, fair enough, that's the recession although it bothered me that he didn't use the time to get other work or re-train himself. On a night out his brothers gf was quite pissed and told me his brother was really pissed off with him, she said that despite the fact that he was on the dole (he didn't tell me this) he hadn't contributed to rent / bills in a year and only every bought food / wine etc when he was expecting me over to the house.

Man 2 - Met him in a restaurant, he was working there as a manager. Started dating, he was living with two friends, a couple. I figured he was paying rent to help them with their mortgage. About six weeks in he asked to meet up with me one night, I said "don't you work in the restaurant on thursdays?", he told me that he'd gone on the piss the previous wknd and hadn't shown up for work and had been fired. I asked him as subtly as I could would he be ok to pay the rent and he told me that his friends, the couple, went away a fair bit and he had an arrangement that he stayed with them in exchange for looking after their dog while they were away, to me this translated as "I can't get my **** together to look after myself so my friends are acting as my parents and Im acting like a teenager" Alarm bells.

Man 3 - Met him through a friend of a friend. Told me he;d worked in IT for years but had been laid off and was now in the process of getting his own online company set up. His mother had passed away two years ago and he told me he had moved into the family home to look after his dad as he was grief stricken, elderly and the other siblings all had kids. I thought (foolishly) that he seemed caring and responsible to do this. Fast forward a few months and I've met the whole family, seems his father does not at all need looking after as was implied to me, the "business" is a flop as he has neither the skills, discipline or ambition to follow though on it, and his siblings appear disgusted with him that he is in fact sponging off his father who is probably struggling himself.


I can see this pattern of men I get involved with. I am not shallow, I don't care what a man does for a living, be it working in mcdonalds, dunnes or sweeping the streets but I seem to consistently get involved with men that are complete wasters and lack ambition and drive. I don't want to be in a relationship with someone who has got so little respect for themselves or their friends / family that they think it's ok to sponge off them. I have worked really hard to be independent and I don't want to end up in a situation where Im having a relationship with someone who doesn't pull their weight. I find it really off putting and unattractive when guys aren't independent yet time and time again I fall for these men. What am I doing wrong? Each time I feel like I have been lied to by these guys, they;ve all implied that they are responsible, financially secure etc. but none of them have been. I know there is a recession, times are tough etc but ffs, all the more reason to stand on your own two feet and not expect someone else, or the state, to support you.

I don't think these guys have deliberately misled me but they have tried to display themselves in a positive light and I haven't seen through it. Is there something I'm doing wrong? It's not that I want to meet a millionaire, I don't. I just want to meet a guy that I get on with and that I can respect and someone who has the work ethic and the self respect to get up everyday and put in a days work so that they can contribute their fair share to the household.

It's getting to the stage where I feel like I'd be better off alone, if I want to have kids I can do a better job by myself than with some waster dragging me down, and where I'm starting to feel like all men are lazy good for nothings, although I know it must just be me, I just keep being attracted to and attracting the wrong sorts of guys. How do I not see through them and how do I break this pattern?

Bricriu

I'm being dead serious when I ask: are there any similarities beween these men and your father?

LegacyUser

Bricriu wrote: »

I'm being dead serious when I ask: are there any similarities beween these men and your father?

That's a good question and thank you for the reply but no there isn't. My father worked really hard and long days when we were growing up to support us and when he was younger had left school to work to support his own family (siblings and mother) when his own dad passed away.

LegacyUser

meetingthewrongmen wrote: »

I am not shallow, I don't care what a man does for a living, be it working in mcdonalds, dunnes or sweeping the streets but I seem to consistently get involved with men that are complete wasters and lack ambition and drive.

Maybe you should care what they do for a living, after all its a pretty good indicator of their personality, as good as anything else.

Kevin Duffy

How are you meeting these guys and what are you currently doing to try to meet someone to suit you?

LegacyUser

Met the first guy at a sports club. Got to know him a little before dating.

Met the second guy at the restaurant where he worked, was there on a quiet night and we chatted for about an hour while I was waiting for my friend who was late. A week later I bumped into him in a pub and we exchanged numbers.

Met the third guy at a party in a friends house, I knew him to see and say hi to, we're in each others extended social network so would have been familiar enough to each other but had never really chatted before.

LegacyUser

Oh, and I'm currently doing nothing, feeling a little disillusioned at the moment. I don't really "look" for men. I just act when I meet someone I'm attracted to.

Neyite

There is definitly a pattern there, but whats causing it is anyones guess - but the common denominator is you. I had a pattern too, and when I had a bad break up I went for a bit of counselling. Now, I'm not sure what exactly changed, but I do know that something did. Its as if I could see through the chat up lines for what they were. I seemed to become more assertive and trusting of my own gut instinct.

Anyway, I did meet someone shortly afterwards - someone I knew for a long time as a friend but I saw him in a different light, totally different from my exes. We are now together 7 years and I'm (very newly) expecting our first child.

Do you think that its because you are hardworking and independent that they 'talk themselves up' maybe in order to impress you, or maybe they find you attractive as a meal ticket? I would recommend a session with a counsellor, it would not take long to tease out where you are going wrong.

LegacyUser

Yes I agree Neyite, there is definitely a pattern and I am the common factor. Perhaps chatting to a counselor would help or maybe I should be a little reluctant to let men know what I do for a living so they don't see me as a meal ticket or 'big themselves up'. Congratulations on your pregnancy!

I'd be interested to hear some male perspectives.

Kevin Duffy

You say you're well paid, maybe own your own home, well turned out? Looking like a meal ticket for freeloading charmers maybe?

LegacyUser

Thanks Kevin, it would seem this way. So how do I identify the charming wasters looking for a meal ticket from the legitimates. Each of the guys above appeared to me to have a job and be financially independent and it was only after investing time and emotion that I realised this was not the case. I don't want to interrogate a man on a first date about his job or living situation or I'll come across as the one looking for a meal ticket!

LegacyUser

Hi!

First of all, apart from your LTR, it seems from your post that these guys aren't actually treating you as a meal ticket? In fact it seems like they are hiding their real situation from you? Because if they are sponging off you, then it is most likely that on some level they do see you as a meal ticket and are deceiving you in order to cash in. Both sexes do this, so I don't believe a male opinion is necessarily more valid. In that case you need to work on your detective skills a little bit and ask more questions. And get answers, of course!

If, however, when they are with you (dates etc.) they are paying their own way, then perhaps your own observation that this is a pattern is correct and the solution begins with you.

Neyite's suggestion of a counsellor is a good one.

With the help of a psychologist, I have learned that I am attracted to a particular type of woman. The very behaviour that should send me fleeing to the hills actually hooks me even more!

For whatever reason, I have been repeating the same cycle, not because I want to, but because it is what is familiar.

I have been working from a book - Reinventing your Life (Young & Klosko) which I found very helpful in terms of understanding what is going on.

What to do about it is another matter! I'm still working on that one! Basically, I need to ignore my gut instinct (not an easy thing to do!)

It doesn't seem that you are doing anything wrong. You know what you want and the men do not meet that standard. Moving on is the right thing to do.

You know yourself that doing the same thing over and over hoping for a different result is insanity.

Time to get a new perspective?

Good Luck!

Kevin Duffy

I'm gonna stick with the meal ticket hypothesis. While they may not start off showing that side, it doesn't mean it's not there. In fact, starting off charming and gradually letting the mask slip is pretty common for a lot of disaster stories in relationships, whether it's lack or ambition or controlling behaviour or whatever. The lack of overt sponging at the beginning doesn't mean a whole lot. I'm gonna take a punt that the three lads were all pretty generous to begin with, regardless of whether they could afford to be or not.

You may not feelike asking too many questions about prospects, income, employment etc. early - quite rightly, you should be able to relax, enjoy and trust - but maybe start asking them a bit more. Personally, I'm in the same age range and doing some dating - I get asked those questions frequently and it doesn't bother me a bit. I think to myself that she must be attracted or she wouldn't bother to ask and I have nothing to hide. If the questioning is too intense too early, I can guess she's not for me, if she's only asking what she needs to know as we go along, that's fair enough. Everyone has criteria for a partner and we need to find out they're being met somehow.

I don't think you're doing much wrong, you've just been unlucky and maybe a little lacking in terms of making an effort to finding out what you need to know. You're attracting blokes, you just need to start sussing out the ones you do attract - don't be afraid to ask the questions.

HTH and best of luck.

dellas1979

Or maybe you've just had bad luck in meeting the wrong people.
Seriously, you sound like a catch (no am not lesbian, but if I was...).
One other thing that interests me is that Id say you are a go getter - once someone interests you (probably physically) *bam* you go for it.

Distorted

I would put it down to statictics OP. I would guess that quite a lot of the "good men" get taken out of the equation by getting married/being in serious long term relationships in their twenties and early thirties and out of the ones left, quite a few have flaws that would make them poor relationship material. Theres nothing wrong with being single at that age, but be aware that a lot of those men will be single for a reason. So I wouldn't think you were being terribly unlucky, but that your experiences just reflect whats out there.

If I were you, I'd seriously consider moving somewhere else or dating a younger man. Otherwise, learn from your experiences and don't waste any more time where theres a big red flag e.g. far too keen too soon, too clingy, can't drive or no car, doesn't have own place to live, prone to strangely unfortunate sequences of events of a highly improbable nature, etc..

LegacyUser

Distorted: you're possibly right but that is quite depressing to hear. I still live in hope of meeting a man I can settle down and have a family with. It's possible that won't happen

pilph

I only read the first post in the list.

My brother is out of work 18 months. He's married with 4 kids & his wife has a decent job. 3 years ago his wife was out of work & he was working on a decent salary. Not for once second do I see him as lacking ambition. He is sacrificing a gunk of his career to raise his kids. I really admire him & am not sure I could do what he does.

So the job a person does, does not define them.

However the big problem I see with your 3 examples are the lies. All 3 lied to you & the next person you meet should be honest. If I was out of work I would tell someone that up front. If they're trying to not be themselves why bother? In my case I've gone out with girls who ranged from tiny incomes to huge salaries. In all cases I liked them & it didn't work out for whatever reason, but their job was never the reason. I was lucky because all of them (4) were pretty honest and I really liked that.

Maybe stress from day one that honesty is the biggest thing you look for?

LegacyUser

Distorted wrote: »

I would put it down to statictics OP. I would guess that quite a lot of the "good men" get taken out of the equation by getting married/being in serious long term relationships in their twenties and early thirties and out of the ones left, quite a few have flaws that would make them poor relationship material. Theres nothing wrong with being single at that age, but be aware that a lot of those men will be single for a reason. So I wouldn't think you were being terribly unlucky, but that your experiences just reflect whats out there.

If I were you, I'd seriously consider moving somewhere else or dating a younger man. Otherwise, learn from your experiences and don't waste any more time where theres a big red flag e.g. far too keen too soon, too clingy, can't drive or no car, doesn't have own place to live, prone to strangely unfortunate sequences of events of a highly improbable nature, etc..

I'm afraid I have (sadly) have to agree with Distorted. A lot of these guys probably couldn't hook up with anyone sooner on account of the finances.
And the recession isn't just financial - at lot of people have psychologically 'downed tools'.

I'm in your age group and married to one of these couch surfers. Yes, it is sad. But when I look around, almost all of my female friends are educated professionals who were very career driven, (at least pre-recession) and a huge number of husbands/boyfriends are professional layabouts or guys who never really made it in their chosen (artistic) fields - or builders who looked like had promising futures a few years back but were never really all that smart or employable.

I would be tempted to say how much does your man being your career equal really bother you? It's kind of sweet that these guys talked up their situations for you... but also sad. And clearly it does bother you. Just keep dating, I suppose, and hopefully eventually you'll meet someone who meets criteria.

fungun

Hi OP,
Male perspective here. One thing I always think is that humans are amazing creatures for perceiving lots of little things. You say you cant see through their chat up lines. Now 'seeing through' chat up lines is usually a subconscious thing, and most people are very good at it naturally.

So, allow me to suggest something that may or may not be true at all, but maybe think about it.

You have always worked hard. Financed yourself through college and perhaps missed out on a lot of fun because you had to do it. Is it possible you look at yourself and miss the fun you could have had....even subconsciously? Is it possible that even though you say you would like to meet a certain type of man, that actually you can identify the people who seem to not have careers, and are actually subconsciously attracted to that as a reflection of things you might have missed out on when you were younger?

Just a thought that struck me. Which may be complete bollocks
Either way, wish you well

Distorted

meetingthewrongmen wrote: »

Distorted: you're possibly right but that is quite depressing to hear. I still live in hope of meeting a man I can settle down and have a family with. It's possible that won't happen

If you avoid wasting precious time on men who are not going to be independent enough for you, its a good start. I am sure there are men out there for you but they are probably not as numerous and therefore as easy to find as in your twenties.

For instance, the city I live in has a big engineering sector and is well known for having lots of well paid single men who can't get girlfriends - there are a lot of internet girlfriends and brides from abroad here. Also in Holland and Belgium, both of which I have lived in extensively, I am pretty sure there are not so many men without jobs and their own places in their thirties, and I think there are also more single ones. Not sure why this is, but I never heard my Dutch female friends for example talking of the men being particularly like you describe. I'm not saying you don't get them, but it doesn't seem to be that common.