20,000 soldiers needed

Banana Nama

So maybe i've got this arse ways.
Just watching prime time there and they said it would take a person on an average industrial wage 20,000 years to pay off our debt.

So if 20,000 people gave up their wages for 1 year would that do it?

If that was the case, being a single guy living back at home, I would be willing to give up my wages for a year if 19,999 other people also pledged the same. Granted people with families, mortgages and any out goings that couldn't be avoided wouldn't be able to take part.

If there was that many people taking part everyone else would be aware of the cause and would be able to feed and board the participants for the year.

I guess it would have to be a case of non smokers, non drinkers etc if even for only the year.

If it is the case that it would work i'd put my name down. It's only a year, so many people take a year out to go volunteer in poorer countries, so maybe people that way inclined would be willing to sign up. Regardless of who is to blame for the mess in the first place, it still needs sorting.

I'm sure there is gaping holes in the idea. But is it possible?

DjFlin

I'll give you a fiver to give all your money to the state. But then, you'd have to give that to the state too.

zenno

Banana Nama wrote: »

I would be willing to give up my wages for a year if 19,999 other people also pledged the same

that is the most crazy thing I have ever heard. you and all other taxpayers get robbed and you are willing to give up your wages for a year to pay off criminals ?.

the world is full of nutballs.

LeixlipRed

Where are all these charitable people when there's homeless people on the street's of our towns and cities?

westendgirlie

Scrap that. I realised I can't read!

squod

Banana Nama wrote: »

So if 20,000 people gave up their wages for 1 year would that do it?

No. [Start/Accessories/Calc........]

Banana Nama wrote: »

Just watching prime time there........

Well that's where you're going wrong. RTE are rubbing your nose in it. Keep voting FF/FG, there's a good fellow.

The Scientician

It'd be more like 200,000 soldiers, or even 400,000 soldiers.

charlemont

Im sure my dole money might just about make the difference.

teol

No we just need more inflation to erode the debt. The easiest way to do this is to print more money. Sadly we cannot do this because we gave away our sovereignty to the europeans.

Slydice

Bet everyone doesn't do anything because of this programme.

See... everyone just stays sitting

We're all a bit too comfy just at the moment.

The King of Moo

No need to do that OP, a few bank executives giving up their bonuses to the state for a while would probably do the trick and would be a bit more just, no?

They're to blame for this, so why not have them pay for it?

7sr2z3fely84g5

Would had been better to have the nama developers shot in public,it woundn't solve the debt crisis but would give a morale boost!.

Same time we are paying off massive pensions for the last gov,as in the news today this chap received 600,000 in a lump sum and then a pension on top of it- http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/republic-of-ireland/hands-tied-over-mccarthy-pension-16046039.html

J K

It's not just a case of having 20,000 soldiers. What are they going to wear? Where's the uniform. You have to provide them with rifles. And tanks. Not to mention feeding them.

You haven't thought this through.

Banana Nama

The King of Moo wrote: »

No need to do that OP, a few bank executives giving up their bonuses to the state for a while would probably do the trick and would be a bit more just, no?

They're to blame for this, so why not have them pay for it?

yeah but they are not going to do that. in the past when i delivered food at night, i got most of my tips from the 'poorer' estates.

i know who is to blame. but thats not going to get them to pay up.

i've nothing to loose. i'm willing to put myself on the line for those who do, families etc

woodoo

Banana Nama wrote: »

So maybe i've got this arse ways.
Just watching prime time there and they said it would take a person on an average industrial wage 20,000 years to pay off our debt.

So if 20,000 people gave up their wages for 1 year would that do it?l

It was 20,000 people to pay off the debt of that one NAMA tit from Cork. He owed €650 million.

Banana Nama

woodoo wrote: »

It was 20,000 people to pay off the debt of that one NAMA tit from Cork. He owed €650 million.

ah ok. I did get it arse ways then. end of thread

The King of Moo

Banana Nama wrote: »

yeah but they are not going to do that. in the past when i delivered food at night, i got most of my tips from the 'poorer' estates.

i know who is to blame. but thats not going to get them to pay up.

i've nothing to loose. i'm willing to put myself on the line for those who do, families etc

I admire your spirit, but I don't think I'd feel right doing it.

I'd much prefer a government and justice system that were passionate about making sure the people primarily responsible for our current situation were duly punished and forced to contribute to our recovery.

I'd probably be more willing to volunteer to do my part if I knew they had to.

Banana Nama

J K wrote: »

It's not just a case of having 20,000 soldiers. What are they going to wear? Where's the uniform. You have to provide them with rifles. And tanks. Not to mention feeding them.

You haven't thought this through.

handouts, unused clothes. if there were that many people involved i'm sure there could be 'sponsor families', a few extra spuds in the pot. of course anyone participating would have to live on bare essentials for the year.

EDIT: no i haven't thought it through

MagicSean

I reckon we should ship all our unemployed construction workers to Libya to make a fortune on the rebuild.

Banana Nama

The King of Moo wrote: »

I admire your spirit, but I don't think I'd feel right doing it.

I'd much prefer a government and justice system that were passionate about making sure the people primarily responsible for our current situation were duly punished and forced to contribute to our recovery.

I'd probably be more willing to volunteer to do my part if I knew they had to.

well how about if there was that many people taking part, on the condition that in doing so laws were brought in by the government that wouldn't allow the same thing happen again, as a condition. with that many people putting themselves on the line surely something would be done to augment it. Tho i'll never cease to be amazed.

4leto

Someone I know who worked for Aer Lingus to save the company in the darker days they all gave up a weeks wages.

So he suggested why doesn't everyone in the country give up a weeks wages and forego benefits for 1 week a year for 10 years.

I don't know what kind or revenue you would get but it would be 1 week of hard austerity rather then 10 years of austerity all year round.

It might be worth thinking about.

The___________

This idea makes little sense in any case, taking 20,000 people's wages out of the economy would have negative consequence-further reducing consumer spending etc...

A Primal Nut

The King of Moo wrote: »

No need to do that OP, a few bank executives giving up their bonuses to the state for a while would probably do the trick and would be a bit more just, no?

They're to blame for this, so why not have them pay for it?

It's nice in principle and i agree that they should be punished. But the reality is that is that if every banker gave up his salary and bonuses it wouldn't make a dent in the debt.

Saying that bankers should pay for the losses, while correct morally, is just tabloid fodder as any rational person knows it's tiny compared to the billions that we owe. It's a distraction, that has nothing to do with actually finding solutions to the problems. Although, I would love to see them forced to give up everything, to pass it off as a solution is not correct. but there are people in Ireland is seem to genuinely believe it would be a solution.

As for the OP; nice idea, after all we are going to pay for it one way or the other. Problem is with the calculations! Very, very wrong.

133,000 people might be more like it!

oppenheimer1

If the cost of the whole mess is €70bn then it would take an army of 2 million donating their wages for a year to pay it off.

J K

Banana Nama wrote: »

............... no i haven't thought it through

I think the idea is that 20000 mammy and daddys pay a years cost of living. Or pay this equivalent. Indirectly they're the ones paying. The money has to come from somewhere. It's not just the childish my parents pay for everything, money grows on trees.

A second point to consider is that it is not necessarily a good idea to pay off the national debt in one go. The sudden, catastrophic withdrawel of 60bn from circulation in the irish economy would not be beneficial. Also the national debt is not all our worries. The commitment we've made via the Bank Guarantee is future debt/empty expenditure that is much bigger than the debt.

The King of Moo

Banana Nama wrote: »

well how about if there was that many people taking part, on the condition that in doing so laws were brought in by the government that wouldn't allow the same thing happen again, as a condition. with that many people putting themselves on the line surely something would be done to augment it. Tho i'll never cease to be amazed.

If we got such guarantees I'd be willing to make some sacrifices (beyond the ones we're already making like the universal levy) but I think it'd be better if everyone in the country had to make more minor sacrifices, instead of a small number of people making large sacrifices. I'm sure lots of people would be willing to give something up (but I think human self-interest would come into play for a lot of people too, which is why communism is hard to get to work in practice, for example).

Though I don't know if we'd ever get such guarantees in reality. I guess it'd be hard to promise such a thing, and I'm sure there'd be vested interests who'd be against it.

A Primal Nut wrote: »

It's nice in principle and i agree that they should be punished. But the reality is that is that if every banker gave up his salary and bonuses it wouldn't make a dent in the debt.

Saying that bankers should pay for the losses, while correct morally, is just tabloid fodder as any rational person knows it's tiny compared to the billions that we owe. It's a distraction, that has nothing to do with actually finding solutions to the problems. Although, I would love to see them forced to give up everything, to pass it off as a solution is not correct. but there are people in Ireland is seem to genuinely believe it would be a solution.

As for the OP; nice idea, after all we are going to pay for it one way or the other. Problem is with the calculations! Very, very wrong.

133,000 people might be more like it!

I'm going to put my hands up and admit I didn't think about the figures at all.

I just wanted to rant about the banks and exercise my RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE muscle a bit

LeeHoffmann

sure just get Bertie out to organise a whip round. The whole thing would be cleared up in minutes. Then we could bet the 'soldiers' money on the horses and use the winnings to turn this recession into the Celtic Tiger Mark 2. Obviously this time around we'd have learned our lesson - we wouldn't trust the banks so it'd all be stored under Bertie's mattress. There we go. Problem solved :cool:

Liam Byrne

Banana Nama wrote: »

So maybe i've got this arse ways.
Just watching prime time there and they said it would take a person on an average industrial wage 20,000 years to pay off our debt.

So if 20,000 people gave up their wages for 1 year would that do it?

If that was the case, being a single guy living back at home, I would be willing to give up my wages for a year if 19,999 other people also pledged the same. Granted people with families, mortgages and any out goings that couldn't be avoided wouldn't be able to take part.

If there was that many people taking part everyone else would be aware of the cause and would be able to feed and board the participants for the year.

I guess it would have to be a case of non smokers, non drinkers etc if even for only the year.

If it is the case that it would work i'd put my name down. It's only a year, so many people take a year out to go volunteer in poorer countries, so maybe people that way inclined would be willing to sign up. Regardless of who is to blame for the mess in the first place, it still needs sorting.

I'm sure there is gaping holes in the idea. But is it possible?

Where are you going to live and what are you going to eat during this year ?

BTW, based on the maths : unless I'm very much mistaken....

20,000 people x approx €20,000 is €400,000,000

.....which is one-tenth of the CUTS for this year ALONE - nowhere near the debt amount, which is almost €114,570,000,000, or about 280 times the figures that you've mentioned

http://www.financedublin.com/debtclock.php

So basically it would take 5.6 million people @ €20,000 each to pay off the debt, or to put it another way

The entire working population of the country giving up the average industrial wage for not one year, but 3 years

Banana Nama

J K wrote: »

I think the idea is that 20000 mammy and daddys pay a years cost of living. Or pay this equivalent. Indirectly they're the ones paying. The money has to come from somewhere. It's not just the childish my parents pay for everything, money grows on trees.

A second point to consider is that it is not necessarily a good idea to pay off the national debt in one go. The sudden, catastrophic withdrawel of 60bn from circulation in the irish economy would not be beneficial. Also the national debt is not all our worries. The commitment we've made via the Bank Guarantee is future debt/empty expenditure that is much bigger than the debt.

yeah i was more thinking along the lines of a select few living 'without' for a year. im in my 30's and am back home. the room im staying in wasn't going to be rented. like i say a few extra spuds in the pot. maybe a few neibours throw in a carrot or two. it would have to be a year of extreme sacrifice, just enough to keep the body working.

as to your second point, as you probably can tell at this stage i'm not the cutest when it comes to economics.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Banana Nama wrote: »

So maybe i've got this arse ways.
Just watching prime time there and they said it would take a person on an average industrial wage 20,000 years to pay off our debt.

So if 20,000 people gave up their wages for 1 year would that do it?

If that was the case, being a single guy living back at home, I would be willing to give up my wages for a year if 19,999 other people also pledged the same. Granted people with families, mortgages and any out goings that couldn't be avoided wouldn't be able to take part.

If there was that many people taking part everyone else would be aware of the cause and would be able to feed and board the participants for the year.

I guess it would have to be a case of non smokers, non drinkers etc if even for only the year.

If it is the case that it would work i'd put my name down. It's only a year, so many people take a year out to go volunteer in poorer countries, so maybe people that way inclined would be willing to sign up. Regardless of who is to blame for the mess in the first place, it still needs sorting.

I'm sure there is gaping holes in the idea. But is it possible?

Eh / what the fvck are you going to live on????! And there'll be business goign to the wall left right and center through lost business because no one has money.

Banana Nama

Liam Byrne wrote: »

So basically it would take 5.6 million people @ €20,000 each to pay off the debt, or to put it another way

The entire working population of the country giving up the average industrial wage for not one year, but 3 years

yeah thought it was a bit 'easy' to solve when i heard the figure originally. and as pointed out the 20,000 was for one guys debt.

Jam

Did you (they) even do the math on this?

82billion/20,000=410,000.

LeeHoffmann

my head is swimming with all these numbers

Shakti

One person for the next 5,728,500 years job security,
sounds alright whats the hours like?

c_man

Jam wrote: »

Did you (they) even do the math on this?

82billion/20,000=410,000.

*ahem*

82,000,000,000 / 20,000 = 4,100,000

squod

Jam wrote: »

Did you (they) even do the math on this?

82billion/20,000=410,000.

http://www.rte.ie/about/jobs/careers.html

Chuck Stone

I wish people we would stop calling them developers like they're altruisticly developing buildings.

They are property speculators - nothing more. The motive is profit (which is fine but let's call it what it is).

Anyway here's my solution.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjL0011ORb4

galwayrush

OP, you would need at least another 100,000 worker's wages to cover the administration cost of running this plan....

jimdeans

I think you'd have a chance of getting every working adult in the country to give a lump sum into an account that would directly go into the accounts of whoever the hell we owe all this money too, if it was paid off once and for all. literally every penny of it would have to bypass the govt and go straight to our debtors.

I'd donate to it if there was a commitment, once it's paid, to put our country in the hands of the EU temporarily, dissolve every seat of power in the land and start from scratch with new elections and zero national debt.