The Great Zoo Debate

g'em

So I've seen this topic come up a couple of times and I'm curious to know what people think about it.

Zoos are often much maligned by those who believe that animals have no place being kept in captivity, but is it really a simple case of wild animals should be kept in the wild?

Are zoos ethically viable? Is a safari park akin to a zoo or is it a 'better' option? Where does the line get drawn where captivity is concerned?

TheMilkyPirate

I wouldn't have much of an opinion on it as i wouldn't be that educated on animals.

But i would like to hear your view g'em being the mod of the zoology forum as i do think it's an interesting subject.

steddyeddy

Having worked with most of the great apes in the wild (in some capcity or another spotting night nests ect) I can say that no great ape belongs in a zoo.

g'em

steddyeddy wrote: »

Having worked with most of the great apes in the wild (in some capcity or another spotting night nests ect) I can say that no great ape belongs in a zoo.

Why though? What is an ape not getting in a zoo that they're getting in the wild? Is it that you believe in their intrinsic right to have freedom? What about in a sanctuary?

Mickeroo

I'm at two minds on the issue. I know animals are generally treated well in zoos, in the wild they generally just worry about mating, evading predators and finding food/prey, in a zoo they don't have to worry about any of that stuff so I guess technically they have it easier and safer in zoos. For animals that generally would stay in their own territories and not wander much then I guess it's not that big of an issue, it is also great to go and see the animals of course though part of me always thinks they should be out roaming the wilds.

I find it hard to justify keeping animals on the higher end of the intelligence scale locked up though. Dolphins, Orcas, Chimpanzes, Gorillas or any caetaceans or the higher species of ape really, I fail to see how being in the stuck in a zoo would not affect them, I think it shouldn't be allowed with animals that we know to have a certain level of intelligence plus animals as large as elephants for example that would be used to wandering vast tracts of savannah or jungle.

On paper safari parks sound like they would be a healthier environment for the animals but I'm not very familiar with them so I can't really comment.

OpenYourEyes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOGFPaZX9Lk

Adam Khor

Such a complicated subject...

Like Mickeroo, I have two minds on the subject. I have worked at a zoo so I know a little bit about what I'm talking about, and I can tell you that most animals are obviously not happy.
I'm not saying they would be happy and bouncy in the wild- living in the wild is a struggle, yes, but at least the animal is well equipped for it. Living in captivity may fullfill some of the animal's basic needs, but it leaves others, so to speak, unattended.

Take big cats, for example. They are predators and they enjoy the thrill of the chase. They seldom, if ever, chase live things inside a zoo enclosure, so they are bored as hell most of the time. Boredom can make many animals destructive, even self-destructive. This also means they have a lot of repressed energy, as they lack an outlet for some of their most this may seem like a minor issue, but it can evolve into serious complications, and can lead to dangerous situations as well. A bored cat is extremely dangerous; it will launch an attack as soon as there's a stimulus to its predatory instincts. If a keeper, for example, trips and falls over, the cat is likely to attack instantly even if not hungry. It is just the kind of thing its repressed hunting instincts need.
Good zoos and good keepers try to keep the cats active by giving them boomer balls and other toys, but just as a house cat will always prefer a live mouse or bird over a toy mouse or ball of paper, a big cat will always prefer live prey- prey that smells like food, runs away, puts up a good fight and bleeds. It may not seem very important to humans- to the cat, it means everything.

There's also the stress factor; many captive animals are under heavy stress from annoying visitors yelling at them, throwing stuff into the enclosure, knocking on the glass etc. Many animals displayed in zoos, including many of the most popular ones, are nocturnal and usually sleep during day. The constant flood of noisy visitors can keep them stressed and even sleep deprived. Neurosis and potentially dangerous behavior ensues.

This is what I've learned from my days as a zookeeper, but even as a mere visitor it would break my heart to see some animals in captivity. I was always especially moved by large birds. Small birds in the aviary seem to do fine; they just eat, hop around, sing, fight other birds, take baths and perch on trees to sing just like they do in the wild. Maybe its because they are meant live in small territories anyways.
But large birds such as crows and raptors often travel huge distances and fly high above the ground. From my own point of view, I always thought it would be a cruel joke if I was born a flying creature but had to spend my life (up to a hundred years in some species of parrot and raptor) behind bars, being only able to leap from perch to the ground and back up. I remember one time when I visited the zoo as a teenager and watched as some wild black vultures soared above the cages of hawks, crows and the zoo's own black vultures. Some of the wild birds actually landed on top of the cages. The birds inside were restless, looking up to the free birds. I thought that maybe if I was in their situation, I would be wondering, "what are they doing out there?", and then, perhaps, I would wonder "what am I doing here?".
It is not easy to tell what's happening in a bird's mind, but I think one needs not be a genius to imagine that the animal is not happy in a cage.
Later in life when I worked at the zoo, I learned that indeed, the larger birds were more likely to become neurotic, aggressive and eventually ill in captivity.
I worked mostly with reptiles, and although some of them are rather sedentary and probably don´t travel much in the wild, they, despite the staff of vets taking care of them, seem to have bad health compared to wild ones.
During my time as an assistant snake handler I also noticed how many snakes seemed irresponsive and slow compared to the ones I had encountered in the wild. At this time, I guess most people would laugh at me if I suggested that this may not only be because of poor health, more frequent big meals, or the temperature of their enclosures, but also perhaps because reptiles go depressed too.
Of course, because apes look like us and have facial expressions and human-like gestures, or at least, gestures that we have no trouble translating, we don´t have a lot of trouble knowing when they are angry, scared or depressed.
For all I know, a crocodile may be as miserable as an ape in captivity. Conveniently, though, a crocodile is always smiling...

I believe that the only thing that could work as an excuse for keeping wild animals in captivity is the part zoos play in wildlife conservation. But, is there really a point in this if the original habitats of endangered species are being destroyed as well?
Is there a point in breeding genetically diverse populations of rhino, orangutan and tiger in captivity if we don´t make sure that, decades from now, there will still be rainforest where to release their descendants?
Animals evolved for their respective habitats for millions of years, and they occupy a special place in a very complex grand scheme of living things that we are only beginning to understand. Remove them, and their existence just ceases to make any sense, unless it is for human amusement. Sadly, knowing humans, I guess this is a valid reason in the minds of many.

Finally (and sorry about the text wall ) I would like to add that I have encountered many wild animals and I have seen many captive animals in several fine zoos. Yes, the zoo animals are fatter, sometimes (but not always) have better fur, and will probably lead long lives and die surrounded by caring people. The wild animals will probably die young and violently. But even so, all the wild animals I've seen, seemed so much more beautiful, even so much more majestic than the captive ones. Call me corny, but I believe that wildlife is like one of those amazing paintings that take your breath away. Remove the background, and all you have is little fragments. They may be perfectly drawn, but they will never be as impressive as they would be if they were a part of the bigger picture.