Supergrass trial returns to NI

Sunnyisland

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0906/englisht.html

Northern Ireland's largest trial for more than 20 years is due to get under way at Belfast Crown Court this morning.
11 years ago, UDA paramilitary Tommy English was one of those murdered during a bitter feud with the UVF.
Nine men will face charges linked to Mr English's killing and five others will be accused of other serious charges.
It will be a very controversial trial and will require one of the most elaborate security operations at Belfast Crown Court for decades.
Much of the prosecution case is based on the testimony of two brothers David and Robert Stewart who are providing evidence in return for reduced jail terms.
They will testify against their former paramilitary friends in return for reduced jail terms.
The trial will put the spotlight on the activities of the notorious UVF gang from the Mount Vernon area of north Belfast, some of whose members were alleged to be police informers.




Are supergrasses a useful part & parcel of police or in some cases governments armoury against crime & terrorism,Is just the word of criminals etc to be taken to convict other people just by there saying so,Bearing in mind that for getting convictions they the supergrasses will get reduced or even no jail terms,The majority of the supergrass trails in NI collapsed and its use was discontinued in the 1985ish.Is this justice or sate control of who goes to jail and who does not.leaving some people out to continue there illegal ways.

Nodin

It's so dubious a method that unless significant other evidence is produced to corroborate the testimony, no conviction could be considered safe. Nor were they, if memory serves.

blahfckingblah

I hope they realise the severity of informing, its a very dangerous thing to do in my opinion

Nodin

blahfckingblah wrote: »

I hope they realise the severity of informing, its a very dangerous thing to do in my opinion

O somehow I think they know.

Alopex

Some people never learn. Just like the Gerry McGeough showtrial this will contribute to bitterness and division in Northern Ireland.

Nodin

Alopex wrote: »

Some people never learn. Just like the Gerry McGeough showtrial this will contribute to bitterness and division in Northern Ireland.

Maybe somebody thought there was a risk of a bitterness deficit.....

blahfckingblah

Nodin wrote: »

O somehow I think they know.

I realise that I just don't understand why anyone would do that.

R P McMurphy

blahfckingblah wrote: »

I realise that I just don't understand why anyone would do that.

There is probably a good chance of them having a change of mind half way through and the entire thing collapsing.

Alopex

Lot of anger out there. This is just like stepping back in time

Zubeneschamali

Alopex wrote: »

This is just like stepping back in time

Yes, the People's Front of Judea vs. the Judean People's Front.

Funny stuff for non-Loyalists.

HellsAngel

I'm against supergrass trials, their totally unreliable. Even the judges of the earlier supergrass trials commented said so. Still interesting that their is never an attempt to get colleagues of those in M15, RUC Special Branch, SAS etc to turn supergrass and expose their secrets in their dirty war

HellsAngel

Alopex wrote: »

Lot of anger out there. This is just like stepping back in time

So will the 'anger' be directed at totally innocent outnumbered Catholics in the Short Strand etc like before ? If the state doesn't pander to unionism the taigs get the loyalist 'anger' just like the good old days ?

Alopex

HellsAngel wrote: »

So will the 'anger' be directed at totally innocent outnumbered Catholics in the Short Strand etc like before ? If the state doesn't pander to unionism the taigs get the loyalist 'anger' just like the good old days ?

why are you directing that at me?

The Scientician

I knew David Stewart, thank fúck he didn't know me!

Scofflaw

Enough with the handbag, HellsAngel - and enough with the incipient trench warfare more generally to all. I'll be happy if I don't have to lock this thread and go back through it dishing out bans and infractions, but I don't mind having to do it.

moderately,
Scofflaw

Alopex

A convicted loyalist terrorist who is testifying for the Crown in one of Northern Ireland's largest ever paramilitary trials has admitted to being a life long alcoholic, with a drugs habit who fled the region with money stolen from his parents.

Robert Stewart, 37, who is giving evidence against alleged Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF) commander Mark Haddock and 13 other defendants, told Belfast Crown Court he also sometimes has problems with his memory.

The 14 accused face a litany of paramilitary charges, with Haddock and seven others facing the most serious count of murdering rival loyalist leader Tommy English in north Belfast 11 years ago.

They all deny the charges.

Ulster Defence Association (UDA) boss English, 40, was gunned down in his house in front of his wife and three young children just after 6pm on Halloween in 2000 during a bloody feud between the UDA and UVF.

Stewart and his brother David Ian Stewart have both turned state's evidence in return for a reduced sentence in pleading guilty to aiding and abetting the murder and UVF membership.

Details of Robert Stewart's vices emerged as he was cross examined by Haddock's lawyer on the second day of the high profile non jury trial in front of judge Justice John Gillen.

Frank O'Donoghue QC had asked why he was unable to recall specific details about the day in July 2008 when he and his brother fled the north Belfast estate they lived in in the period before handing themselves in to police.

Stewart blamed his consumption of vodka that day and went on to add: "I have been an alcoholic all my life."

The witness then confessed to being a habitual drug user, taking E tablets, cocaine, cannabis, acid and glue as well as prescription valium.

Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/supregrass-trial-exuvf-man-confesses-to-memory-problems-16046479.html#ixzz1XJzOqrxZ

Fecking hell thought the trial might make the first week before being exposed as a complete and utter farce.

R P McMurphy

I would hazard a guess that it will disintegrate. Interesting that a loyalist murderer would be going around on LSD though :eek: period of introspection would be hellish

Nodin

Alopex wrote: »

Fecking hell thought the trial might make the first week before being exposed as a complete and utter farce.

Evidently the selection process for the UVF was not all it should have been. HR should receive a memo.

Sunnyisland

Who are the Belfast 'supergrass' brothers?

Robert Stewart is giving evidence against his alleged former UVF colleagues
Belfast brothers Robert and Ian Stewart are the key witnesses in Northern Ireland's largest paramilitary trial for 25 years.
In the summer of 2008, they packed one bag between them, drank a bottle of vodka, fled their homes in north Belfast and caught a ferry to Scotland.
Between them, the two loyalist paramilitaries had £2,000 in cash, stolen from their disabled parents.
Much of it was later spent on alcohol.
Robert Stewart, 37, has been an alcoholic most of his life and was a habitual drug user. He took ecstasy tablets, cocaine, cannabis, acid and glue. He also used to take 60mg a day of prescription valium.
On the trip to Scotland, he drank mostly cider.
Eleven days later, the Stewart brothers walked into a police station and confessed their part in a brutal, paramilitary murder - the shooting of loyalist Tommy English in front of his wife, young daughter and twin sons.
Fast forward three years and the two self-confessed UVF men have now agreed to give evidence at Belfast Crown Court against nine other men they say were in the same gang, and also involved in the killing.
In legal terms, they are "assisting offenders". On the streets of Belfast, they are a "supergrass".
During that 11-day period back in 2008, they criss-crossed the UK, going from Scotland to England and eventually back to Northern Ireland via Stansted Airport.
Rather than go home to Belfast, they went to the seaside town of Portrush, close to the Giants Causeway.
By the time they arrived, it was too late to find anywhere to stay. They spent the night on the beach, in sand dunes."We were lying there freezing," said Robert Stewart. "There was nowhere open."
He was speaking while giving evidence at the start of the trial. His older brother Ian, also known as David, 41, has yet to give evidence.
The details of their 11-day trip around the UK came from Robert.
He was asked by one of the defence barristers, Frank O'Donoghue QC, why the brothers had decided to hand themselves into the police?
"We couldn't live with our lives any more," he said.
"It's not easy to live with all that sort of stuff."
"Clean break"
Robert Stewart joined the UVF in his early 20s. As a teenager, he was a keen Liverpool fan and worked in a butcher's shop. But he soon gave it up.
Although he claimed unemployment benefit, he admitted to the court he "did the double" by working as a part-time window-cleaner. He usually worked three days each week, for just 3-4 hours and normally with a hangover.
He had a lot of girlfriends. "Most of them were on and off", he said.
One of them came to see him when he went to Portrush, the weekend before he handed himself in to the police.
Asked if it was a "wild" weekend, he said it was "more of a nervous weekend".
He said the decision to take the train to Antrim, then go to the local police station and confess to taking part in a murder was "monumental".
Even though he wanted to make a "clean break", he admitted in court that initially he did not tell the whole truth in police interviews.
He lied about some of the details surrounding the murder, to protect some people. Eventually, he said, he told the police everything he knew.
It was while in police custody that the Stewart brothers agreed to give evidence against others.
In return, they were given a heavily reduced sentence for their part in the murder of UDA man Tommy English, in October 2000.
The brothers got a three-year jail-term instead of 22 years. They were released from prison last month.
It is not known where they are living now.
Challenged about whether any of his evidence was believable, Robert Stewart told the court it was all true, and he was now a changed man.
Looking over at the accused, he said: "Everybody sitting in that dock should be there.
"You either believe me, or you don't

Sunnyisland

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0222/englisht.html
Loyalist leader Mark Haddock has been cleared of the murder of paramilitary rival Tommy English 12 years ago.
The 40-year-old UDA chief was shot in his house in Newtownabbey, Co Antrim, in front of his wife and three children in October 2000, during a bloody feud between the Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF) and the UDA.
The 21-week trial at Belfast Crown Court was one of the longest in Northern Ireland's legal history and is set to be one of the most expensive.

Only one of the 13 defendants in the "supergrass" trial was convicted.

Neil Pollock was convicted of two minor charges, while the other 12 have been acquitted of all charges.

Today's judgment was handed down amid tight security.
The 13 defendants, ranging in age from 32 to 46, faced dozens of offences, including murder, kidnapping and UVF membership.
Nine of the men, including Mr Haddock, were accused of murdering Mr English in what the prosecution said was a "tit-for-tat" killing during the loyalist feud.
Evidence against the defendants centred on testimony from former UVF members, brothers Robert and David Stewart.
They claimed they were in the flat in New Mossley, north Belfast, when the plan was hatched to kill a "hair bear", a nickname for a UDA member.
In return for giving evidence, they were given substantially reduced sentences for their part in Mr English's murder.
Defence lawyers described their evidence as being "totally and completely unworthy of belief".
The judge said today that they were not reliable witnesses.
Under cross-examination, the brothers denied they had received "the deal of the century" and said they had only wanted to do the "right thing".
The trial before Mr Justice Gillen was the first "supergrass" trial in Northern Ireland since the 1980s.
The non-jury trial broke new legal ground with the judge allowing journalists to tweet from court during the trial for the first time.
In another unique move, the judge ordered that written skeleton arguments by defence lawyers and particular rulings made during the trial be made available for the public to view.


Another supergrass trail collapse,They are and where never a way to get justice,how can you believe people who committed massive and horrible crimes and are only giving evidence to save themselves.

Nodin

Indeed. Stupidity on behalf of the prosecution and a waste of time and money.

Son Of A Vidic

I remember the original supergrass trials and the disaster that ensued. So it's hard to believe they even contemplated, a return to this totally unreliable and unsafe method of obtaining prosecutions.