sackable offence??

Employer

If an employee has been caught stealing money from the till can an employer just sack them instantly without pay or would you have to give notice in the usual way...?
My friends think they should get any and all money/holiday pay due to them, doesn`t make sense that people can`t be fired anymore...:mad:

coylemj

Even a militant shop steward would concede that stealing from the employer or a fellow employee is a hanging offence.

That said, the employee would still be entitled to money in lieu of accrued holiday entitlement and pay up to the date of termination.

jhegarty

And the employer would be entitled to pass the issue to the authorities.

If they haven't already I would thread very carefully.

MagicSean

Your friends should get a trip to the courthouse.

Shelflife

OP they are entitled to all pay up to the termination including any accrued holiday pay. they are also entitled to due process and therefore one should never sack anyone instantly. they should be suspended and an investigation carried out where they are allowed to offer a defence.

If a "fair" process is not seemed to be carried out, then the employer leaves himself open to an unfair dismissals procedure even in an open and shut case.

We had something similar a few years ago and it was heartbreaking the time it took to put a case together and go through the proper procedures for someone who was screwing us over both financially and emotionally.

Sarah316

jhegarty wrote: »

And the employer would be entitled to pass the issue to the authorities.

If they haven't already I would thread very carefully.

I learnt this out the hard way,

after moving on with my life,almost three months had passed,then guards came to my door.

if i were your friends,i'd move on with as less hassle as possible,if the guards do get involved,then maybe open a claim for unissued pay etc

Employer

Employee doesn`t know they`ve been caught on cctv YET
As it seems it only happens when they`re unsupervised, so until the evidence is all together nobody else can get any time off or holidays...
Would I go to the guards or dismiss employee first for proper procedures to be followed??

MagicSean

Report to the Gardaí. Consult their contract of employment for the consequences of Gross misconduct.

dvpower

Employer wrote: »

Employee doesn`t know they`ve been caught on cctv YET
As it seems it only happens when they`re unsupervised, so until the evidence is all together nobody else can get any time off or holidays...
Would I go to the guards or dismiss employee first for proper procedures to be followed??

1. Dismiss them.
2. Pay what is oweing to them in accrued holiday pay etc (unless you plan on sacking them for stealing from you and then proceed to steal from them):eek:
3. Report to the Gardai.

Sarah316

also you mentioned they don't know there was cctv footage of them committing the offence,if thats in the form of a hidden camera,other issues could arise.

coylemj

Sarah316 wrote: »

also you mentioned they don't know there was cctv footage of them committing the offence,if thats in the form of a hidden camera,other issues could arise.

If the camera is in an area where the employees carry out their duties then I don't believe there is any legal issue. It's the employer's premises, he is paying the employees to do their jobs and they have no absolute right to privacy while on the premises. Even if the camera record was inadmissible in a criminal trial, it most certainly can be used by the employer to fire someone for theft.

Obviously a hidden camera in a toilet or changing room would be a different story though remember that the Supermacs boss had a hidden camera in a public toilet which was used to rebut a potential claim for negligence.

BrianD

Employer wrote: »

Employee doesn`t know they`ve been caught on cctv YET
As it seems it only happens when they`re unsupervised, so until the evidence is all together nobody else can get any time off or holidays...
Would I go to the guards or dismiss employee first for proper procedures to be followed??

Hang on! What does it say in the employees terms and conditions of employment and/or employee handbook? It's beginning to sound like you don't have one if you asking about procedures. These should be detailed so a predefined path is followed to get the matter resolved.

Do you have a policy in regard to the CCTV? Do the employees know that they are being monitored and recorded and for what purposes? Also remember that there all sorts of rules regarding how long you hold these recordings.

If I were you, I would start making sure you have your documents in order for your own sake. You don't want to be a victim twice!

BoDiddly

Shelflife wrote: »

OP they are entitled to all pay up to the termination including any accrued holiday pay. they are also entitled to due process and therefore one should never sack anyone instantly. they should be suspended and an investigation carried out where they are allowed to offer a defence.

If a "fair" process is not seemed to be carried out, then the employer leaves himself open to an unfair dismissals procedure even in an open and shut case.

We had something similar a few years ago and it was heartbreaking the time it took to put a case together and go through the proper procedures for someone who was screwing us over both financially and emotionally.

Totally correct, I have known so called open & shut cases to be anything but indeed upon further investigation have discovered that it may not be just the 'employee' involved !! Naturally it is understandable to get angry and react, my advice would be, do it right do it well, if using CCTV document everything and have at least 3 examples if you can then at least you can say to yourself you did your bit right.

coylemj

Shelflife wrote: »

they are also entitled to due process and therefore one should never sack anyone instantly. they should be suspended and an investigation carried out where they are allowed to offer a defence.

If a "fair" process is not seemed to be carried out, then the employer leaves himself open to an unfair dismissals procedure even in an open and shut case.

That would be thanks to the Garvey case. The Govt. decided to sack the Garda Commissioner Eamonn (Ned) Garvey in January 1978. He was called into the Dept. of Justice and the minister told him he had two hours to resign or be fired. He refused to resign so by a cabinet decision he was fired and Paddy McLaughlin was appointed to succeed him.

Garvey went to court and in May 1979 the Govt. had to concede that fair procedure hadn't been followed so his dismissal was null and void. This meant that he was still the Garda Commissioner but as returning to his post was out of the question, he then retired on full pension and he received full back pay from the date of the purported dismissal.

The problem then arose that Paddy McLaughlin was not the Garda Commissioner in the intervening period as there couldn't be two Commissioners and McLaughlin, as putative Commissioner had signed off on multiple promotions to sergeant and inspector and lots of traffic by-laws. In order to retrospectively validate these actions, a special Act of the Oireachtas was passed...

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1979/en/act/pub/0016/sec0001.html#sec1

FreudianSlippers

Obviously this is a thinly veiled "friend" post that OP blatantly stated is a real scenario.

This 'aint my first rodeo Employer.