Move up a year

Orion

We're considering moving up a year in primary school. The level in the current class is too low - most of this years work was done last year in extension and withdrawal.

We're planning on meeting the principal this week but we'd like to know what the process is first - based on previous meetings with her we've no confidence of getting a straight answer.

Can anyone here point me in the right direction or know the details? The DES site is less than illuminating and we called them too which was equally frustrating.

byhookorbycrook

Have a look at giftedkids.ie

Orion

I have. They are attending CTYI. We're also going to do a CTY maths correspondence course with them this year as well as the Saturday course.

But that doesn't address them problem that they are bored to tears in school and moving them up a class could challenge them some more. That's the information I need. One of them asked us if we could move them to another school in Maynooth and then we could lie about her age so she could go into 3rd class. That was her own idea - we have not discussed moving them in earshot of them.

overmantle

Speaking as somebody who has worked for many years with children of all levels, including special needs, gifted/exceptionally able and everywhere in between, I would advise caution.

Many parents send their children to CTYI, many don't. I have come upon several children whom I would have considered exceptionally able but they were not attending CTYI (their parents either couldn't afford it, were not in a position to send their child/ren, or just didn't see the point in setting their children up for something with which they didn't necessarily agree).

Unfortunately I have met many who were attending CTYI but were not necessarily in the gifted range. Highly stimulated (certainly), given every opportunity (without doubt), appearing to know many things their peers didn't (hardly surprising).

Admittedly, there are various others who attended CTYI but didn't fit into either of the above categories.

I met a family some years ago whose eldest son was so over-stimulated that his parents constantly boasted (in a subtle way) about how bright he was. He had every book one could imagine,every computer programme available, his parents were constantly telling him things, everything was explained to the nth degree. I observed with interest and the child was becoming more and more arrogant and obnoxious towards his peers and his social skills suffered over a period of time. Friendships didn't seem as important to his parents as getting ahead and getting there as quickly as possible. (I am not suggesting this is the case with your child but am simply advising caution).

The more extra courses a child attends and the more a child is exposed to, the more likely it is that school will be reported as 'boring'. If a child skips a class, are his new peers going to be older than him? Academic progress is one aspect and one aspect only. Social maturity, physical maturity, emotional maturity and so on, also need to be considered.

Is your child going to be younger than his peers if s/he skips a class? Will s/he have friends? Does s/he have friends in her/his current class? Does s/he have friends? Is s/he involved in sport? Does she have other interests outside of academic pursuits? What age is your child and what class are you hoping s/he will join?

These words of caution may not be what you were hoping to hear but if considering skipping a class, then all possible aspects need to be put on the table. Academic ability in Maths is a very small part of the decision.

By all means discuss the matter with the school. It seems the school is providing extra withdrawal but a decision to skip a class may involve a lot more than you may have at first thought.

Best of luck and I hope this helps.

Orion

overmantle wrote: »

I met a family some years ago whose eldest son was so over-stimulated that his parents constantly boasted (in a subtle way) about how bright he was. He had every book one could imagine,every computer programme available, his parents were constantly telling him things, everything was explained to the nth degree. I observed with interest and the child was becoming more and more arrogant and obnoxious towards his peers and his social skills suffered over a period of time. Friendships didn't seem as important to his parents as getting ahead and getting there as quickly as possible. (I am not suggesting this is the case with your child but am simply advising caution).

I fully agree. We've always encouraged them to socialise and they have lots of friends. There's not a trace of arrogance and we do watch out for it. Socially they are great. We know parents who push academic ability to the detriment of other aspects of childhood and we are very careful not to do it ourselves.

overmantle wrote: »

The more extra courses a child attends and the more a child is exposed to, the more likely it is that school will be reported as 'boring'. If a child skips a class, are his new peers going to be older than him? Academic progress is one aspect and one aspect only. Social maturity, physical maturity, emotional maturity and so on, also need to be considered.

Is your child going to be younger than his peers if s/he skips a class? Will s/he have friends? Does s/he have friends in her/his current class? Does s/he have friends? Is s/he involved in sport? Does she have other interests outside of academic pursuits? What age is your child and what class are you hoping s/he will join?

We thought long and hard about CTYI for the reasons above. We ended up sending them because they were bored not the other way around. As for age - they are not too young to go up. They would still be 12 starting secondary. The school is small enough that they do have friends in the higher class (third). There is one friend in their current class that they would miss but she's in after school with them as well which would help. A lot of their friends, in school and at home are older than them - they seem to be drawn to older kids - possibly because of social maturity. We've always noticed this about them.

They never really got in to sports (we tried) but they are now in scouts and they love it. They love the outdoors, animals, cycling, camping. This is just to put some perspective on the thread - academic pursuits are not the be all and end all in our minds.

overmantle wrote: »

These words of caution may not be what you were hoping to hear but if considering skipping a class, then all possible aspects need to be put on the table. Academic ability in Maths is a very small part of the decision.

By all means discuss the matter with the school. It seems the school is providing extra withdrawal but a decision to skip a class may involve a lot more than you may have at first thought.

Best of luck and I hope this helps.

We thought long and hard about this and currently we feel it is the best thing to do for the children's benefit. (There are other concerns which I would not be happy posting about on a public forum). There was some ad hoc withdrawal last year but there doesn't appear to be any available this year. Maths and English were just examples - they do very well is all aspects of school (including extra curricular activities )

I do appreciate the comments. It's good to get another perspective on it.

overmantle

Clearly, this is something to which you have given much thought and not something you would enter into lightly. From your post, it seems it is something you really want for your child/ren.

I am happy to see you acknowledge and point out that there may be other concerns about which you would not be happy to post on a public forum (what a pity some others would not be so responsible).

I note also that your child would be 12 going into secondary school. Perhaps you erred on the side of caution and could have done with sending your child to school a year sooner? There has been a trend of erring on the side of waiting until children are well past turning 5 before sending to school, something with which in normal circumstances, I do not agree. In the earlier years in primary, many of these children who were 'over-ready' when starting school, can become 'bored'.

I have found that children born in January/February (for example) and being held back until they turn 6, in the first half of junior infants, is not normally a wise move.

One other point I noted is that your children attend a relatively small school. If/when they attend a larger secondary school, it is probable that there will be more children who would be likely to perform at a similar level. This will have its own advantages.

Just a few more thoughts... Good luck again.

Orion

overmantle wrote: »

I note also that your child would be 12 going into secondary school. Perhaps you erred on the side of caution and could have done with sending your child to school a year sooner?

First day of school was 1st September. 5th birthday was 2nd September They'd be 12 within a couple of days of starting secondary which is ok.

overmantle wrote: »

Clearly, this is something to which you have given much thought and not something you would enter into lightly. From your post, it seems it is something you really want for your child/ren.

We want the best education available for them. If that means moving them up to 3rd class then that's what we will fight for. It's a huge decision but we think it would be for the best.

Thanks again.

thesimpsons

just a point to think about too is their age leaving secondary school. At just 12 starting in 1st year, they could well be over a year younger than others in 1st year and not quite 18 when doing their leaving cert (assuming TY year). Considering that alot are now leaving secondary at 19+, would they be at a disadvantage. I'm not saying necessary they would be, just give it some thought too. My first dd was just 18 sitting the leaving and she handled it perfectly, but alot of her classmates were a full year older than her. Other classmates won't be 18 till Oct and will already be starting college with people up to 2 years older.

overmantle

thesimpsons wrote: »

just a point to think about too is their age leaving secondary school. At just 12 starting in 1st year, they could well be over a year younger than others in 1st year and not quite 18 when doing their leaving cert (assuming TY year). Considering that alot are now leaving secondary at 19+, would they be at a disadvantage. I'm not saying necessary they would be, just give it some thought too. My first dd was just 18 sitting the leaving and she handled it perfectly, but alot of her classmates were a full year older than her. Other classmates won't be 18 till Oct and will already be starting college with people up to 2 years older.

That is a fair point, on age grounds. I was actually only 16 (No TY then) doing my Leaving and heading off to college. Many of my class mates were 19. The fact that I had been younger all the way up made it a little easier but I would say that there were occasions when I wished I was a little older.

There were also times like when I had to choose my Leaving Cert subjects (at 14) and make a career choice, at a very young age, that it wasn't easy. There is also the chance that TY may very well be abolished in the years ahead, which could mean that young students will be younger than anticipated leaving school. Having said all that, luckily I never regretted any of the choices I made and academically, my age never came against me. The only potential difficulty was lack of maturity but I would say I was lucky on that score also.

There is no 'one size fits all' solution to this issue. It all depends on the individual involved, the circumstances they find themselves in and the circumstances which they encounter in the future.

Orion

Just an update if you're interested

We met with the teacher and principal last week. We had a very good discussion about moving them to 3rd class. Their teacher had a couple of points to make about what they were taught last year and some points about their use of punctuation. She agreed that we could easily get these little things up to scratch at home. The principal had no objections.

So we thought about it some more over the weekend and talked to the kids. Apart from leaving some friends behind in 2nd they were delighted to be moving to 3rd because they'd have some harder work to do. They have friends in 3rd too and it's small class (16) so it should work fine.

Upshot is we decided to go ahead with the move and the BoM approved it last night. They'll be starting in 3rd next Monday. Hopefully it will go well.

thesimpsons

thesimpsons wrote: »

just a point to think about too is their age leaving secondary school. At just 12 starting in 1st year, they could well be over a year younger than others in 1st year and not quite 18 when doing their leaving cert (assuming TY year). Considering that alot are now leaving secondary at 19+, would they be at a disadvantage. I'm not saying necessary they would be, just give it some thought too. My first dd was just 18 sitting the leaving and she handled it perfectly, but alot of her classmates were a full year older than her. Other classmates won't be 18 till Oct and will already be starting college with people up to 2 years older.

There are enough 16 year olds finishing school that 18 should not even remotely be a problem.
I think you are making too much a fuss over the age- which is perfectly normal age. If they are bright they will need stimulation.

Orion I'm glad to hear it worked out and wish ye the best of luck

CIARAN_BOYLE

Glad to hear it worked out for you Orion.

I remember when I was a kid my parents pushed for me to move up a year but the school wouldn't do it because classes were full enough.

I would say that 2nd to 3rd is the easiest for a child to move up since there are so many religious schools that focus on the communion during 2nd year that if the school doesn't have a religious focus or the parents don't want the child to take communion there tends to be a void in the curriculum to a certain extent.

Best of luck to your kids.

Orion

Off to a good start anyway. Went to the school this morning with them.

Quick word with the new teacher to mention that they'd done the English comprehension book last year in 1st class but no harm doing it again. Also haven't managed to get one of the books yet - sold out locally - have to get it in Dublin. It's a homework book - Spellbound 3 - not too worried tbh. Spelling and sentences aren't a major cause of concern. They catch up on it when I get it.

The couldn't wait to line up in the new class line. It was hilarious. When they lined up they were beaming that they were in the bigger class They were so happy with themselves.

As for class: twin A was a bit frustrated in Irish. Understandable as they've now missed a full year of that. We'd considered that anyway: she'll pick it up and we'll work with both of them at home to help them catch up. Twin B actually told us that she enjoyed her homework today because it was hard.

So far so good.

CookieMonster.x

Orion wrote: »

We're considering moving up a year in primary school. The level in the current class is too low - most of this years work was done last year in extension and withdrawal.

We're planning on meeting the principal this week but we'd like to know what the process is first - based on previous meetings with her we've no confidence of getting a straight answer.

Can anyone here point me in the right direction or know the details? The DES site is less than illuminating and we called them too which was equally frustrating.

I don't mean to bring up an old thread so mods feel free to delete this if necessary.
I was just wondering how your children are getting on in their new class? I only saw this last week so I would have replied had I seen this thread.
I hope I don't seem nosy, I'm just wondering how they are getting on. I myself skipped a class in primary school. I was moving to a new school (to move into 2nd class). My parents thought long and hard about me skipping 1st class and in the end they thought it would be the best thing to do. I am so glad they did! I fitted right in despite being a good bit younger than everyone and had no problem with the work. I could do the new things much quicker than the others and to be honest, I didn't really have to catch up on anything. I have also been in CTYI since I was 7. I look back now and wonder what it would have been like if I hadn't skipped a class and I just can't see it! I'm 16 now and did TY so now I'm not the youngest in my year and I really feel it did so much for me. I find the rate at which we go at in school quite slow already so I can't imagine how bored I would have been!
Sorry for this long post. I don't really know why I posted, I suppose just to give my opinion and experience. I think you made the right decision and I think it will stand to your children in the future. Sorry if there are mistakes in this post, I'm typing on a broken iPod :P I hope I don't seem to be prying, you don't have to reply but I just thought I'd post anyway. Good luck

Gleesonbelle

The only issue I would see is from a social point of view. I skipped a class in primary and as a result went to college at 16 and frankly couldn't cope. But you sound like hat coveted with her being 18 starting college. We're in a similar situation with my almost 3 year old in that he is due to start Montessori in September. He is well wounded than all the others but so advanced that can't be held back. Yet I wanted to keep him until he turned 5 to start school. It's a tricky call and glad it worked out for you.

Orion

CookieMonster.x wrote: »

I was just wondering how your children are getting on in their new class?
...
I have also been in CTYI since I was 7.
...
Sorry for this long post. I don't really know why I posted, I suppose just to give my opinion and experience. I think you made the right decision and I think it will stand to your children in the future. ... Good luck

They're getting on great thanks. It was definitely the right decision. They are being challenged more - both from being up a year and from having a good teacher (the teacher they would have had in 2nd class is excellent too - no reflection on her - it's their previous "teacher" that was a big part of the problem).

They love being in the class. They still don't find many things difficult but that just shows how bored they would have been in 2nd class.

They're also in CTYI. Next week one is finishing a Veterinary Science class and the other a Journalism class. It's brilliant.

Thanks for the comments

Gleesonbelle wrote: »

The only issue I would see is from a social point of view. I skipped a class in primary and as a result went to college at 16 and frankly couldn't cope. But you sound like hat coveted with her being 18 starting college.

We also may have the option for them repeating 6th class in the Gael Scoil. That's on the backburner for now - if the DES do away with transition year before then it's a definite runner. Hope transition year stays tho - it's a fantastic thing to teach the kids various non-core curriculum things. 16 is too young to start college - social life is a major part of it and at 16 you miss a lot of that.

Gleesonbelle

Orion so much so that I had to repeat in college. It's a major culture shock at 18 never mind doing it at 16 when everyone else is 18. Having a similar issue with my 3 next week year old. He's going to Montessori in Sept having been in Playschool since January. He's doing all the same work as kids a year older and really doing well and at the same level. So do I risk sending him at 4 years and 4 months instead of keeping him the extra year to be 5 starting. It's hard to know because if they do dump TY I'm afraid he will be too young finishing school and I don't want them to repeat my mistakes!!