Nicholls chasers

Nulty

Kauto will make his reappearance in the Betfair Chase at Haydock. It's an option for many of the top 3m chasers especially Imperial Commander who I would guess will start there too.

Denman is going to have 2 runs this year, at the Lexus at Leopardstown and The Gold Cup if all goes well. I'm delighted he's going for the Lexus because I'll be backing Pandorama in that race. Denman should make the price for Pandorama. It sounds like I'm convinced Pandorama can't lose but I'm sure his price will be nice enough against the aging Denman and the ground will be spot on for him. Anything around the 2/1 - 5/2 mark for Pandorama will be nice.

kksaints

Was kind of hoping that Kauto Star would be retired. He looked in decline last year and a good run at Cheltenham last year wasn't enough to put me off that view.

Same good be said for Denman after Aintree aswell.

Aiteen Thirtythree I hope will run in the Henessay at Newbury.

kfallon

So Kauto will be soundly beaten at Haydock and Denman will be beaten at L'town.....thanks for the update Paul :rolleyes:

Also while I respect Pandorama I would be very wary about backing him against Weapon's Amnesty (providing he makes a full recovery) as there was only a snot between them at L'town, Christmas '09!

hucklebuck

Anyone else pished off with connections of these two wonderful horses?

They have won you plenty, given you great days and you want to let the loving public watch them decline:mad:

Arctic89

He probably thinks they still have more in them, though I agree Kauto should be retired - he had more than one off day last year.

To be fair to Denman, I think if he had gotten a similar campaign in 2010/2011 to the one he's going to get this year (Lexus and Gold Cup), he'd have had a great year, possibly winning both. Hauling top weight in the Hennessy and finishing as well as he did had to leave it's mark on him. In all his career, he's never finished well in any race after the Gold Cup, so I think it's unfair to say he's past it based on his Aintree run. He's been a great, great horse and I can't wait to see him in action again.

Anyone else excited about Kauto Stone? Won a Grade 1 chase in France and the sort of horse you'd expect Nicholls to do well with. Heading for the race Nicholls won with the Nightingale in Down Royal first.

Other horse I'm most looking forward to seeing again is Aiteen Thirtythree, heading for the Hennessy and I'd say we're unlikely to see him before that.

mike65

Speaking of Nichols, his string for this season is previewed by the man himself in the attachment below (from guardian)

hucklebuck

Arctic, I was saying they should be retired. Denman of old would have been able to pressure long run but it looked like the engine is sadly no longer there. If they had faith in denman being his old self you could be sure they would have asked him to go for home earlier and try test long runs jumping at pace against the cream of the crop.


Putting him in the hennessy giving so much weight to decent young horses was madness.

UrbanSea

Kauto definitely set for Haydock.

Could well be a brilliant lay.

kfallon

UrbanSea wrote: »

Kauto definitely set for Haydock.

Could well be a brilliant lay.

He will never win a Grade 1 Chase again, even Stevie Wonder could see after Down Royal that he was finished. Made a great price for Long Run in the KG tho, oh what a day that was

mdwexford

There are plenty of soft Grade 1s about and either are capable of winning one this season.

Both are clearly past their best though and i would like to see them retire rather than slogging around scraping races they would have smashed three years ago.

kfallon

mdwexford wrote: »

There are plenty of soft Grade 1s about and either are capable of winning one this season.

You won't get softer than the Guinness Gold Cup at Punchestown last Spring and Kauto had to be pulled up! Horse is finished and Denman won't win another Grade 1 either.

UrbanSea

Denman will win one before Kauto I think

kfallon

UrbanSea wrote: »

Denman will win one before Kauto I think

If someone put a gun to my head to pick one of them to win a Grade 1 again I'd go for Denman (tho tbh I'd prob tell the person to just pull the trigger )

The Old Guard are gone, for the sake of your wallet I suggest you buy into this....unless you are gonna lay them then it's free money!

mdwexford

kfallon wrote: »

You won't get softer than the Guinness Gold Cup at Punchestown last Spring and Kauto had to be pulled up! Horse is finished and Denman won't win another Grade 1 either.

He was over the top.

They might not but they certainly have a chance imo.

hucklebuck

Kauto is finished, Denman might win one but it won't be a handicap.

Shame Imperial Commander is out, would have loved to see him at Haydock again.

shy-tall-knight

Don't understand peoples calls for them to be retired after last season, so premature and clearly coming from people who have never worked with horses. If Nicholls suspected that they weren't enjoying they're training then I have no doubt he would retire them straight away. But why retire them if they are showing real enthusiasm to keep at it? They love they're racing and the really cruel thing to do would be to retire them and have them out on grass all day bored out of their minds when they'd much rather be putting in a bit of work on the gallops. I still think they can offer something and so too does Paul Nicholls.

kfallon

shy-tall-knight wrote: »

Don't understand peoples calls for them to be retired after last season, so premature and clearly coming from people who have never worked with horses. If Nicholls suspected that they weren't enjoying they're training then I have no doubt he would retire them straight away. But why retire them if they are showing real enthusiasm to keep at it? They love they're racing and the really cruel thing to do would be to retire them and have them out on grass all day bored out of their minds when they'd much rather be putting in a bit of work on the gallops. I still think they can offer something and so too does Paul Nicholls.

So you enjoyed seeing Kauto pulled up at Punchestown? His performances are gonna get worse and nobody wants to see a dual GC and 4 time KG winner out with the washing. By all means keep them in their training routine but don't tarnish their reputations and people's memories by running them when they are no longer competitive!

mr.jingle

kfallon wrote: »

So you enjoyed seeing Kauto pulled up at Punchestown? His performances are gonna get worse and nobody wants to see a dual GC and 4 time KG winner out with the washing. By all means keep them in their training routine but don't tarnish their reputations and people's memories by running them when they are no longer competitive!

Kauto was 3rd in both the King George and The Gold Cup last season so he's hardly out with the washing yet. He ran very poorly at Punchestown but that could be anything. If Nicholls feels after his comeback run he won't be competitive in these races again then i'm sure he will be retired and rightly so.

Also Denman would be fairly similar he was given an impossible task in the Hennesey but ran superb before another cracking run in the Gold Cup with the run at Aintree surely coming too close. These two are worthy of there places at the top Grade 1 races as even though there getting old they still will beat 70%+ of the fields nowadays as outside them and Long Run every other horse i can think of running in the 3m Chases have question marks beside them and are definitely beatable once again but it'll all depend on there first runs back. If either perform poorly then hopefully there retired

hucklebuck

Lets get real here, Denman is the most likely to be most competitive of the two but they will both be 12 in January. The biggest chance of one of them winning a race is if Denmans rating drops enough to give him a chance in a handicap or just two group 1 races this season, if this is the case he might place in the Gold Cup. Would not be surprised if one or both are not sub 160 at the end of the season.

The other option is retiring both of them and letting two great pals play in their field all year round.

lukemcdog

kauto star and denman are sure past their best now!

shy-tall-knight

kfallon wrote: »

So you enjoyed seeing Kauto pulled up at Punchestown? His performances are gonna get worse and nobody wants to see a dual GC and 4 time KG winner out with the washing. By all means keep them in their training routine but don't tarnish their reputations and people's memories by running them when they are no longer competitive!

Ah come on now of course I didn't but it is definitely worth seeing them race at least once more to see if the desire is still there. I think anyone with any knowledge would agree that the races after Cheltenham came too soon for both of them but as the other poster has said, that does not mean they are out with the washing just yet!

kfallon

shy-tall-knight wrote: »

Ah come on now of course I didn't but it is definitely worth seeing them race at least once more to see if the desire is still there. I think anyone with any knowledge would agree that the races after Cheltenham came too soon for both of them but as the other poster has said, that does not mean they are out with the washing just yet!

I have plenty of knowledge and I can see when a horse is in decline. Moscow Flyers decline started pretty quickly after he won the QMCC and everybody made excuses for him until he was retired. Kauto is looking the same to me.

Kauto is finished imo, he won't win another Grade 1 chase

mr.jingle

kksaints wrote: »

Was kind of hoping that Kauto Star would be retired. He looked in decline last year and a good run at Cheltenham last year wasn't enough to put me off that view.

kfallon wrote: »

So Kauto will be soundly beaten at Haydock and Denman will be beaten at L'town.....thanks for the update Paul :rolleyes:

hucklebuck wrote: »

Anyone else pished off with connections of these two wonderful horses?

They have won you plenty, given you great days and you want to let the loving public watch them decline:mad:

Arctic89 wrote: »

He probably thinks they still have more in them, though I agree Kauto should be retired - he had more than one off day last year.

hucklebuck wrote: »

Arctic, I was saying they should be retired.

kfallon wrote: »

He will never win a Grade 1 Chase again, even Stevie Wonder could see after Down Royal that he was finished. Made a great price for Long Run in the KG tho, oh what a day that was

kfallon wrote: »

You won't get softer than the Guinness Gold Cup at Punchestown last Spring and Kauto had to be pulled up! Horse is finished and Denman won't win another Grade 1 either.

kfallon wrote: »

The Old Guard are gone, for the sake of your wallet I suggest you buy into this....unless you are gonna lay them then it's free money!

hucklebuck wrote: »

Kauto is finished, Denman might win one but it won't be a handicap.

kfallon wrote: »

So you enjoyed seeing Kauto pulled up at Punchestown? His performances are gonna get worse and nobody wants to see a dual GC and 4 time KG winner out with the washing.

lukemcdog wrote: »

kauto star and denman are sure past their best now!

kfallon wrote: »

I have plenty of knowledge and I can see when a horse is in decline. Kauto is looking the same to me.

Kauto is finished imo, he won't win another Grade 1 chase

I'm sorry but i just have to put a LOL in here before i go to the bookies tomorrow to collect my winnings:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Form temporary, Class is permanent.

I love you Kauto Star:P

Ps. I hope some of you's changed your mind before today's race

shy-tall-knight

kfallon wrote: »

I have plenty of knowledge and I can see when a horse is in decline. Moscow Flyers decline started pretty quickly after he won the QMCC and everybody made excuses for him until he was retired. Kauto is looking the same to me.

Kauto is finished imo, he won't win another Grade 1 chase

Sorry mate what was that you just said??? I knew Kauto would have me collect at least one more time...and at 7/1! How very nice!! What a horse he is, and what a training performance.

abouttobebanned

Funny thread. Lot of know it alls who think they know more than the trainer.

hucklebuck

mr.jingle wrote: »

I'm sorry but i just have to put a LOL in here before

Holy ****, I knew I recognised you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rmUZQrvF5o

Delighted Kauto won I was tempted to back him but didn't think he would be competitive. Well done mate

mr.jingle

hucklebuck wrote: »

Holy ****, I knew I recognised you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rmUZQrvF5o

Delighted Kauto won I was tempted to back him but didn't think he would be competitive. Well done mate

Would you like a taste of this pie i made:D:D:D:P

Backstreet Moyes

Kauto is the best horse of all time. What a horse in saying that i really dont rate Long Run at all.

kfallon

We shall se on St Stephen's Day.

Before ye get too excited, Dancing Tornado finished ahead of Long Run on his seasonal debut last year!

mdwexford

kfallon wrote: »

We shall se on St Stephen's Day.

Before ye get too excited, Dancing Tornado finished ahead of Long Run on his seasonal debut last year!

No we wont. You said he would be soundly beaten and Haydock and made stupid comments, now you look clueless.

Delighted for you.

Morgans

Being dogmatic in horse racing doesn't do anyone any good.

Amazingly, Denman hasn't won a grade 1 in over three and a half years.

Its difficult to see the opposition he will have if he comes for the Lexus.

hucklebuck

mr.jingle wrote: »

Would you like a taste of this pie i made:D:D:D:P

Here comes the pie....

http://www.cineclub.de/images/2001/scary_movie_4.jpg

Nulty

Does it strike anyone else that maybe Kauto would appreciate being kept humming through the season rather than let down and picked up again? Perhaps Kauto should be run more often and not let down too low between his races. Maybe not more often but more not let down too low.

Nichols says last year that he was feeling his races more than say this time around. The horse can probably take his racing better if he's fully wound up for every one.

Huntey

Nulty wrote: »

Does it strike anyone else that maybe Kauto would appreciate being kept humming through the season rather than let down and picked up again? Perhaps Kauto should be run more often and not let down too low between his races. Maybe not more often but more not let down too low.

Nichols says last year that he was feeling his races more than say this time around. The horse can probably take his racing better if he's fully wound up for every one.

It wouldn't be realistic, the horse would go over the top at some stage.

Personally I think he should be put away until March, at twelve he won't be able to win both the King George and Gold Cup.

At the same time, the Gold Cup and King George look pretty weak after he exposed many yesterday and I would think Kauto should be well capable of putting up a bold showing in both but will struggle to hold the form with Long Run.

hucklebuck

I think Nicholls should put him away until March, if he can get him that fit first time out why not let him relax between now and then. Smith owns Masterminded and Kauto so he may not want them to meet.

shy-tall-knight

kfallon wrote: »

We shall se on St Stephen's Day.

Before ye get too excited, Dancing Tornado finished ahead of Long Run on his seasonal debut last year!