Driving with laundered diesel

franciec

With all the raids on stations selling laundered diesel was wondering what if customs stop you and found it in your tank would you be in trouble for it even if you didn't know it wasn't legit.

maringo

I'd say you would be in trouble if it was in your tank. I've recently noticed a number of places selling diesel which are not garages. I stay clear of them and keep to the branded garages as I heard the stuff can really damage your engine as some of it is not properly refined. Don't fancy having my engine damaged - I'd sooner stick to the reputable branded garages and they are not selling the inferior stuff. :eek:

franciec

maringo wrote: »

I'd say you would be in trouble if it was in your tank. I've recently noticed a number of places selling diesel which are not garages. I stay clear of them and keep to the branded garages as I heard the stuff can really damage your engine as some of it is not properly refined. Don't fancy having my engine damaged - I'd sooner stick to the reputable branded garages and they are not selling the inferior stuff. :eek:

I use a unbranded station which is around 8c a litre cheaper than the likes of Topaz and Esso in the area. Haven't notice anything different in car and I find it goes a long way milage wise.

Used another unbranded one before which was cheapest in the town but found it didn't last in the tank but again nothing wrong with car. Of course might take a while for damage to fuel pump, etc to make itself known.

Hiace.

Short term small saving, versus long term very expensive fuel system damage and wear.

dr.fuzzenstein

Always keep the receipt and make sure it says diesel on it.
That way you should be some way covered.
And always be suspicious of any place that sells diesel only, for cash only and doesn't offer receipts.

kevin101

I think there is a compulsory fine of €2500 imposed by the courts

johnthemull

kevin101 wrote: »

I think there is a compulsory fine of €2500 imposed by the courts

That cheap stuff will destroy your injectors, 1.k a pop and 4 waiting to rot. Buying **** fuel is false economy

mikemac

Customs don't mess around, there is no discretion and waving you on like may get from the gardaí

Straight €2500 fine, you'd need to be driving a good while to save that money from cheaper fuel
But I think it can go up to €5,000

Bigcheeze

Presumably customs can't tell you've got laundered diesel, which is the whole point of laundering it!

Gumbo

maringo wrote: »

I'd say you would be in trouble if it was in your tank. I've recently noticed a number of places selling diesel which are not garages. I stay clear of them and keep to the branded garages as I heard the stuff can really damage your engine as some of it is not properly refined. Don't fancy having my engine damaged - I'd sooner stick to the reputable branded garages and they are not selling the inferior stuff. :eek:

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Always keep the receipt and make sure it says diesel on it.
That way you should be some way covered.
And always be suspicious of any place that sells diesel only, for cash only and doesn't offer receipts.

mikemac wrote: »

Customs don't mess around, there is no discretion and waving you on like may get from the gardaí

Straight €2500 fine, you'd need to be driving a good while to save that money from cheaper fuel
But I think it can go up to €5,000

Guys, i think ye are getting mixed up with washed diesel and green diesel?

was in my local place the other day, usual diesel only, cash only but well advertised and CCTV etc etc
Asked they guy how he got on the other day with all the raids, he said, "yeah, big commotion but they came in dipped him and then went". He is still open for business.

Bigcheeze

What are they looking for when dipping the retailer tanks? Is there some more sophisticated test rather than just looking at the dye ?

Yakuza

I'd say there should be a world of difference between being found having red/green diesel in your tank and having laundered stuff which (presumably) you bought in good faith.

If it requires a sophisticated test to show if it's laundered or not, how is John Q Driver meant to know the difference?

A woman on the Joe Duffy show the other day made a good point; remove the problem by not adding the dye in the first place, and find another way to recompense farmers (get a rebate on production of receipts or something). At a stroke you eliminate the economic cost of having to enforce it (both the random customs checks and the huge police operations to nail the launderers) and the environmental cost of the crap that the washing process leaves behind entering the water table.

Bigcheeze

Yakuza wrote: »

I
A woman on the Joe Duffy show the other day made a good point; remove the problem by not adding the dye in the first place, and find another way to recompense farmers (get a rebate on production of receipts or something). At a stroke you eliminate the economic cost of having to enforce it (both the random customs checks and the huge police operations to nail the launderers) and the environmental cost of the crap that the washing process leaves behind entering the water table.

The problem isn't farmers. How does the woman on Joe Duffy deal with home heating oil ?


Anyway, farmers should pay the same for diesel as hauliers, taxi drivers and everyone else but that's a separate issue.

MugMugs

Yakuza wrote: »

A woman on the Joe Duffy show the other day made a good point; remove the problem by not adding the dye in the first place, and find another way to recompense farmers (get a rebate on production of receipts or something). At a stroke you eliminate the economic cost of having to enforce it (both the random customs checks and the huge police operations to nail the launderers) and the environmental cost of the crap that the washing process leaves behind entering the water table.

Don't go there. I suggested that a while back all the No Sayers jumped me.

Bigcheeze wrote: »

Anyway, farmers should pay the same for diesel as hauliers, taxi drivers and everyone else but that's a separate issue.

So you should pay duty on agricultural works not on public roads. Do you enjoy your cheap milk with your coffee and the cheap spuds and veg on your plate?

Gumbo

Bigcheeze wrote: »

What are they looking for when dipping the retailer tanks? Is there some more sophisticated test rather than just looking at the dye ?

its an immediate result on whethers its white or red/green diesel.
But then i assume separate samples are sent off to confirm that the diesel is not washed etc

cadaliac

MugMugs wrote: »

Don't go there. I suggested that a while back all the No Sayers jumped me.




So you should pay duty on agricultural works not on public roads. Do you enjoy your cheap milk with your coffee and the cheap spuds and veg on your plate?

OK I'm hungover but can you explain? What are you on about? Cheap veg? For who? Ya wha?
Sorry but I'm must be completley missing the point am I?

Bigcheeze

MugMugs wrote: »

Don't go there. I suggested that a while back all the No Sayers jumped me.

Because most of the marked diesel is used as heating oil. The amount used in farming is probably a fraction of a percent.

MugMugs wrote: »

So you should pay duty on agricultural works not on public roads. Do you enjoy your cheap milk with your coffee and the cheap spuds and veg on your plate?

I take it from the big smiley that it's a tongue in cheek comment!

retroloose

The washed diesel tends to be yellowish in colour, legit diesel is allmost clear like water yet customs seem to be letting people away on the washed stuff, some genuine garages are getting it delivered from the north, it lacks in lubricating properties after been acid washed , acid residue also destroys seals in injector pumps, thus resulting in knackered injector pumps and injectors

retroloose

Id imagine that woman on the joe duffy show is cooked up in a housing estate somewhere with one diesel car if even, as someone mentioned what is she going to do about her heating oil, these people seem to forget its not just farmers that have machinery

AugustusMinimus

Yakuza wrote: »

I'd say there should be a world of difference between being found having red/green diesel in your tank and having laundered stuff which (presumably) you bought in good faith.

If it requires a sophisticated test to show if it's laundered or not, how is John Q Driver meant to know the difference?

A woman on the Joe Duffy show the other day made a good point; remove the problem by not adding the dye in the first place, and find another way to recompense farmers (get a rebate on production of receipts or something). At a stroke you eliminate the economic cost of having to enforce it (both the random customs checks and the huge police operations to nail the launderers) and the environmental cost of the crap that the washing process leaves behind entering the water table.

What would there be to stop farmers buying diesel, claiming back the excise and then selling it on to other people.

Hell, whats to stop the farmer from putting the diesel purchased into their jeep and diesel car ?

It would also give Farmers extra cash flow problems to think about. Anyone dealing with the Revenue recently will testify that they are appauling to deal with when you have large refunds due, especially surrounding VAT.

Hiace.

Bigcheeze wrote: »

Anyway, farmers should pay the same for diesel as hauliers, taxi drivers and everyone else but that's a separate issue.

As long as you're willing to pay the extra for your food, or eat cheaper foreign imports instead, who didn't have to pay any duty on their fuel. You can sit back and watch more Irish money go abroad.

MugMugs

Bigcheeze wrote: »

MugMugs wrote: »

Don't go there. I suggested that a while back all the No Sayers jumped me.

Because most of the marked diesel is used as heating oil. The amount used in farming is probably a fraction of a percent.

MugMugs wrote: »

So you should pay duty on agricultural works not on public roads. Do you enjoy your cheap milk with your coffee and the cheap spuds and veg on your plate?

I take it from the big smiley that it's a tongue in cheek comment!

Well why don't you think about it. If the farmer who grew the veg on your plate tonight had to pay duty on his diesel for agricultural use then that would be passed onto you as the consumer. Your 99cent bag of carrots would then he potentially 2.99 as a result. Placing duty onto diesel used for agricultural use would be non surprising with the Irish government but also quite idiotic, moronic and probably the final nail in the Irish coffin.

And I'm just a big happy smiley person.

franciec

The strange thing is the reports of tens of thousands of litres of this washed diesel are been found at a time.

Obviously it must come from legitimate sourses in the first place before it's laundered. Surely there must be a better ways of regulating where it's sold so it get to those who are supposed to use it.

MugMugs

"Hi there. I'd like a 100,000 gallons of your finest Green Diesel please!" "Hold on while I call the law instead of making lots of monies off you and risk my knee caps bring removed"

Nah, can't see how that would work really.

snowman707

Yakuza wrote: »

A woman on the Joe Duffy show the other day made a good point; remove the problem by not adding the dye in the first place, and find another way to recompense farmers (get a rebate on production of receipts or something). At a stroke you eliminate the economic cost of having to enforce it (both the random customs checks and the huge police operations to nail the launderers) and the environmental cost of the crap that the washing process leaves behind entering the water table.

As a farmer using large amounts of both marked and un marked diesel I would love to see this, in reality though it is not practical

Bigcheeze wrote: »

Anyway, farmers should pay the same for diesel as hauliers, taxi drivers and everyone else but that's a separate issue.

we are paying the same for haulage, transport etc

if you are suggesting that we use white in combines, harvesters, tractors loaders etc. etc than as suggested you better source your cereal, veggies, milk and meat else where 'cos i guarantee you there will be no body producing them in this country

Bigcheeze

MugMugs wrote: »

Well why don't you think about it. If the farmer who grew the veg on your plate tonight had to pay duty on his diesel for agricultural use then that would be passed onto you as the consumer. Your 99cent bag of carrots would then he potentially 2.99 as a result. Placing duty onto diesel used for agricultural use would be non surprising with the Irish government but also quite idiotic, moronic and probably the final nail in the Irish coffin.

And I'm just a big happy smiley person.

You can make that argument about every product and service. It's like saying that if supermarkets didn't have to pay council rates all food would be cheaper. Anyway, I've dragged this off topic. The main point is that until a solution can be found that works for domestic heating oil, the diesel needs to be dyed.

MugMugs

Bigcheeze wrote: »

MugMugs wrote: »

Well why don't you think about it. If the farmer who grew the veg on your plate tonight had to pay duty on his diesel for agricultural use then that would be passed onto you as the consumer. Your 99cent bag of carrots would then he potentially 2.99 as a result. Placing duty onto diesel used for agricultural use would be non surprising with the Irish government but also quite idiotic, moronic and probably the final nail in the Irish coffin.

And I'm just a big happy smiley person.

You can make that argument about every product and service. It's like saying that if supermarkets didn't have to pay council rates all food would be cheaper. Anyway, I've dragged this off topic. The main point is that until a solution can be found that works for domestic heating oil, the diesel needs to be dyed.

Eh. It's fact. Tax agricultural diesel and bye bye lean mean food prices. How are council rates relevant? The farmers are still paying for their fuel. Just not the ability to use it on the public highway. Your argument is pathetic tbf.

CompleteCarGuy

I wrote something on this recently in the paper

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/motors/2011/0629/1224299725065.html

RECESSION HAS bitten its teeth hard into Ireland. There are almost 438,000 people on the Live Register. One of the consequences of that is an increase in criminal activity and the black market. With consumers seeking any way of making money stretch further, motorists are looking at fuel costs.

According to the Automobile Association, fuel prices have dropped for the first time in eight months, yet the average driver is still spending more than €227 per month on fuel.

Fuel laundering used to be something that was hushed and whispered about in Border counties and rural areas. There was often the suspicion that the agricultural sector would sometimes bend the rules, using dyed agricultural diesel for other purposes.

But in recent years the practice has taken a more sinister turn. In May of this year Customs and gardaí in Co Meath uncovered a sophisticated diesel laundering plant which, it was reported in this newspaper, was believed to be making a profit of close to €100,000 a week. A customs officer who was removing items from this seized plant was then attacked and masked men set his truck alight. According to Revenue, between 2005 and 2010 nine fuel-laundering plants were detected. So far in 2011, five such plants have been detected. They are on the increase.

Revenue cannot fully estimate the cost of this to the State. “It is not possible to accurately estimate activity in the ‘shadow economy’,” a Revenue spokesperson told The Irish Times. “However, the uncovering of any oil laundering plant is very important for the economy – the supply and use of laundered fuel can have a detrimental impact on legitimate trade such as hauliers who are compliant with the laws regulating their business. The competition who purchase the illegal fuel can undercut them and, through unfair competitive pricing, put the legitimate trade out of business.”

This year, these plants have been found in Louth, Monaghan, Meath and Offaly, but are often relocated to avoid detection.

These plants will remove the dye or “launder” marked gas oil. This diesel fuel, which was previously coloured red but now green, is subject to a low rate of excise duty and VAT. It is an offence to use in ordinary motor vehicles and anyone found doing so is liable to prosecution and the vehicle is liable to detention and seizure. These plants will use acid to wash out the chemical markers in the fuel and as a result they could be undetectable by regular Customs checks.

“We have seen the practice grow in the past 12 months,” says Martin Boylan of Independent Laboratory Ltd. “Acid is used to remove the dye and it is put through charcoal and in some cases even kitty litter. The fuel can retain more water and can be filled with slime.”

This fuel is being sold to fuel retailers at reduced prices and offered by independent retailers as low-cost fuel. The appeal to the consumer is obvious. Saving even 10 cent per litre every fill up is valuable to stricken motorists. But at what cost?

The mailbox for the Motors Helpdesk column of this newspaper has seen an increase in correspondance relating to mysterious engine failure in modern cars. Cars that have been serviced properly suddenly seize. Most are diesel. But for those working in the industry there appears to be little debate about the cause of the problem.

“We have had 12 cars in 12 months with problems directly related to contaminated diesel,” says Jonathan Meade, director of Hutton Meade, Nissan and Hyundai dealerships in Dublin. “We have had one petrol car in addition to this but the overwhelming majority are diesel cars. Prior to this, we never really would have seen the problem,” says Meade.

These cars were, in some cases, brand new. “The owner would obviously think that there was a problem with the car, but we would soon discover that the fuel was the problem. Sometimes the fuel was so dirty that it would, luckily, not even have properly gone through the car so the repair was simple, but sometimes the repair could run into thousands – in one case €12,500 for a new engine on a large SUV,” says Meade.

So why does this happen? When the service departments of car dealerships or motor distributors are presented with this sort of problem, they generally refer to Michael Courtney of Diesel Engineering Services Ltd, who has a busy workshop in Shercock, Co Cavan. Open since the 1950s, this is an old-school business dealing with a very modern problem. Gongs and awards for excellence are strewn on the shelves behind Courtney’s head. During our visit the phone never stops ringing. “Yes, we are busy – if we deal with 20 vehicles a week, half of these are down to fuel contamination problems,” says Courtney. We suggest 500 cars a year. “Yea, it would be something like that.”

“It is probably down to the taxation on the fuel that is leading buyers to seek out the cheaper alternative,” he says. “It has always been a problem in the Border counties to some degree but we are seeing more problems with cars as a result of poor quality fuel.” So what problems are being presented? “Generally when fuel is laundered, the process of removing the chemical marker can also remove the lubricants. Since diesel is a self-lubricating fuel, without the lubricant it can cause injector problems. Once this happens you are into big problems.”

The piston of a diesel engine fits very tightly in the cylinder to provide high compression in order to cause ignition of the injected fuel. Fuel is delivered in metered quantities to the cylinders at very high pressures and is broken up in a fine spray with droplets usually smaller than 20 microns. “Modern diesel engines that meet Euro 5 regulations can operate at pressures of 2,400 bar,” explains Courtney. “A 1985 VW Golf diesel might have required just 500 bar. This is why you see people who are able run old cars on chip fat or virtually anything that can combust.”

In a paper entitled, Diesel Engine Failures due to Combustion Disturbances, Caused by Fuel with Insufficient Lubricity, AJ von Wielligh, of the Department of Mechanical and Aeronautical Engineering at the University of Pretoria, explains why removing the lubrication would be a problem. “The investigations clearly indicate that there is a direct relationship between poor lubricity of diesel fuels and engine failures, relating [to] sticking of needles and subsequent piston seizing.”

Brian Greene is a consultant automotive engineer and claims assessor. “Poor fuel can lead to poor spray patterns which could cause piston damage, watering down the oil in the sump. This could lead to a hole in the piston or even the block in extreme cases. Depending on who you are insured with contaminated fuel is normally covered through insurance if it can be established that the fuel was to blame. A sample may be taken and passed on to the gardaí.”

How would you know that your car had been affected by poor quality fuel? “The car would be hard to start, there would be a lack of power or the car could just grind to a halt while driving along the road. It can manifest in any number of ways,” says Courtney. “Something really needs to be done about this. You might say that I should be happy to be so busy but this is a problem that is in everyone’s interest to put right.”

MugMugs

CompleteCarGuy wrote: »

I wrote something on this recently in the paper

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/motors/2011/0629/1224299725065.html

Wasn't the attack when diesel was seized in Castleblaney Co Monaghan, and then illogically brought back to Dundalk via Culaville in the North without protection as opposed to Meath as mentioned in your article?

Yakuza

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

What would there be to stop farmers buying diesel, claiming back the excise and then selling it on to other people.

I'm sure that for a given acreage (and usage pattern) there would be an industry standard usage of fuel. Usage in excess of this could be monitored / detected and stringent punishments (large fine / jail term) could be implemented for anyone caught doing so.

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Hell, whats to stop the farmer from putting the diesel purchased into their jeep and diesel car ?

Not much, granted. Or even let them do so, given that a percentage of their driving will be related to their business. How much of a loss to the state would that be, compared to the enforcement costs currently?

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

It would also give Farmers extra cash flow problems to think about. Anyone dealing with the Revenue recently will testify that they are *appalling* to deal with when you have large refunds due, especially surrounding VAT.

It could be offset as credit against other taxes that they pay.

I haven't put too much thought into it, but there is definitely a problem with the current system that needs to be addressed.

Peterbilt

franciec wrote: »

With all the raids on stations selling laundered diesel was wondering what if customs stop you and found it in your tank would you be in trouble for it even if you didn't know it wasn't legit.

Anyhow, back to the original question. Does anyone know what the LEGAL position is if WASHED diesel is found in your tank at a customs checkpont?

Maybe this belongs in legal section?? If so apologies.

challengemaster

MugMugs wrote: »

Eh. It's fact. Tax agricultural diesel and bye bye lean mean food prices. How are council rates relevant? The farmers are still paying for their fuel. Just not the ability to use it on the public highway. Your argument is pathetic tbf.

Despite the fact they still do use it on public roads. Or are you trying to tell me tractors and the likes never leave the farmyards?

MugMugs

challengemaster wrote: »

Despite the fact they still do use it on public roads. Or are you trying to tell me tractors and the likes never leave the farmyards?

Isn't that what customs are for ?

Your statement is pedantic and weak at best and deviates completely from the point I was making.

Stinicker

If you were dipped and found to be running on MGO (marked gas oil) aka "Green Diesel" & "Agricultural Diesel" or worse still Laundered Diesel you would obviously be in trouble, however say if you bought the fuel in good faith as genuine Road Diesel and had the receipts and could prove it then obviously you would have done nothing wrong and it would be between the Customs and Filling Station selling the dodgy diesel as something else.

As pointed out before using laundered diesel is a fools game, it will damage your engine, can still be detected by the Customs leaving you liable to getting caught and is more expensive than green diesel to begin with.

1) A new engine will offset any savings
2) The fine if caught must be considered
3) Your not saving as much as running on green
4) Your money is supporting criminal scum and murderous thugs, it is also responsible for massive environmental damage as these scum routinely dump the hazardous wash of the dye and acids into river killing everything.

If you really are so broke you must consider something like this, don't support the criminals and just use Agricultural Diesel instead.

Just remember

1) Agri Diesel must comply with EU standards so the dye is of no effect, many people mix up laundered diesel and green diesel, laundered can kill your engine, green is just a different color to white road diesel.
2) You will be fined if caught, it is big and it will have cost you more than you saved.
3) Green Diesel is cheaper than laundered how ever see above
4)You are not supporting criminal scum, but are still depriving the government of revenue.

Just pay up like everyone else and it is not worth it, if you happened to avoid detection thne you would be saving but unless you put up huge mileage, two or three years savings running on green will be wiped out by the fine. If you are a business or whatever getting caught for Green Diesel will quickly land you with a Revenue audit and then you will be in a whole world of pain if you haven't the books in order.

I can understand why lorries and that would do it, but for cars it is just raw stingyness really. I drive a petrol car and get around 30mpg, I feel the pain and would love a Diesel jetta, fuel is 10c cheaper and I will get double the MPG! Most Diesel cars are so frugal on fuel, it is cheaper so why dodge the tax and land yourself in a whole world of pain.

Peterbilt

No, sorry what I should have made clear is if you had been informed that your vehicle is running on washed diesel what is the legal position?

What I suppose Im looking for is whats in the statute books regarding a vehicle that is running on washed diesel.

Thank you. Any chance we could leave the farmiong thing out and all the other things interesting though they are and get back to the original poster's question.

Mully_2011

Peterbilt wrote: »

Anyhow, back to the original question. Does anyone know what the LEGAL position is if WASHED diesel is found in your tank at a customs checkpont?

Maybe this belongs in legal section?? If so apologies.

You'd be grand providing you didnt wash the diesel yourself.

Id imagine it would go back to the garage where the diesel is sold

under the sale of goods act 1983

• Goods must be of merchantable quality – goods should be of reasonable quality taking into account what they are meant to do, their durability and their price
• Goods must be fit for their purpose – they must do what they are reasonably expected to do
• Goods must be as described - the buyer must not be mislead into buying something by the description of goods or services given orally by a salesperson or an advertisement.

franciec

Interesting write up by AA Ireland:

http://www.aaireland.ie/AA/Ezine/AA-Ezine-September-2011/Dirty-diesel.aspx

Says that it's estimated that laundered diesel is as much as 10% of the total market costing the tax payer about €150 million, or as it says 225 special needs assistants.

Puts forward suggestion made here of removing dye and giving a rebate system instead.

This is probably getting to be good idea given the scale of these operations, the lose of tax and the cost of clean up of the damage. I've seen this put at close to a million at some of the sites raided.

David09

Peterbilt wrote: »

Anyhow, back to the original question. Does anyone know what the LEGAL position is if WASHED diesel is found in your tank at a customs checkpont?

Maybe this belongs in legal section?? If so apologies.

Not quite the answer you requested, but as regards detection, here goes..

I could be incorrect, but as far as I'm aware, this is how it stands...

Green diesel contains higher levels of sulphur than derv. When customs test for illegal diesel, not only do they examine the dye, but the sulphur content too. If it is above that of derv, you can get done for driving on illegal fuel. The washing process only removes the dye but not the excessive levels of sulphur, which itself is chemically attached and cannot be as "easily" removed like dye. Sulphur removal must take place at the refining process instead.
So, yes, washed diesel is easily detectable, but what the consequences are, I'm unsure.

Gophur

Peterbilt wrote: »

No, sorry what I should have made clear is if you had been informed that your vehicle is running on washed diesel what is the legal position?

What I suppose Im looking for is whats in the statute books regarding a vehicle that is running on washed diesel.

Thank you. Any chance we could leave the farmiong thing out and all the other things interesting though they are and get back to the original poster's question.

The Legal position is you are guilty of an offence unless you can prove otherwise. I would say you would need to be able to prove where you bought your fuel, and prove you bought it in good faith.


(There was a dealer in Co Cavan who was jailed for repeated offences re: diesel tax evasion. In the beginning he was selling washed/IRA diesel but, for his second offence, he didn't bother with that he just put green diesel into this road diesel tanks. Like, who looks at the colour of the fuel being put into his/her car?)

Victor Meldrew

Mully_2011 wrote: »

You'd be grand providing you didnt wash the diesel yourself.

I'd imagine it would go back to the garage where the diesel is sold under the sale of goods act 1983

OK, a receipt from <snip> (Active) Service Station (sic) might get you off the hook with the Gardai and the courts, but no one is going to sue a garage for selling washed diesel unless they like checking under their car every morning (and not for oil leaks)

MugMugs

Victor Meldrew wrote: »

OK, a receipt from <snip> (Active) Service Station (sic) might get you off the hook with the Gardai and the courts, but no one is going to sue a garage for selling washed diesel unless they like checking under their car every morning (and not for oil leaks)

Why would Customs stopping you and you then exhonerating yourself with receipts etc turn into a civil matter between you and the garage ?

blingrhino

MugMugs wrote: »

Why would Customs stopping you and you then exhonerating yourself with receipts etc turn into a civil matter between you and the garage ?

i don`t think i`d be taking a civil action against <snip>;)

-Chris-

No more libellous posts please.

PADRAIC.M

Anybody got a colour guide for comparing the difference in diesels as I have a car I need to compare

SIX PACK

maringo wrote: »

I'd say you would be in trouble if it was in your tank. I've recently noticed a number of places selling diesel which are not garages. I stay clear of them and keep to the branded garages as I heard the stuff can really damage your engine as some of it is not properly refined. Don't fancy having my engine damaged - I'd sooner stick to the reputable branded garages and they are not selling the inferior stuff. :eek:

Very good point got stung myself few weeks ago nearly destroyed my engine. As you say. Stick to the major brands- I for 1 will only go to AppleGreen or Topaz now