ALF Orthodontics

carrickmilo

Is anybody else being treated with an ALF appliance?
I'm an orthodontic retreatment case and I'm having my maxilla widened to undo all the damage - would be interesting to exchange notes with anyone in a similar situation

Orthoman

carrickmilo wrote: »

Is anybody else being treated with an ALF appliance?
I'm an orthodontic retreatment case and I'm having my maxilla widened to undo all the damage - would be interesting to exchange notes with anyone in a similar situation

Ya, they make use of the same forces as they used to move the statue in Ballinspitle a few years ago.

The problem when you get such cranial expansion is that there is no brain to fill it!

carrickmilo

Orthoman wrote: »

Ya, they make use of the same forces as they used to move the statue in Ballinspitle a few years ago.

The problem when you get such cranial expansion is that there is no brain to fill it!

If you don't know anything about the question, it's better not to post.
Just displays ignorance.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Carrickmilo, Orthoman know a very large amount about this, his derision is an indication of what he think of the treatment philosophy.

carrickmilo

If he knows so much how does he explain the movement then?

I've gone from 34.5mm intercanine width to 41mm in 9 months of wearing an ALF and large clearly visible gaps are opening up around certain teeth.

I just posted here to see if anybody else was in similar treatment and wanted to swop notes.

There is a derisory tone to his post which doesn't reflect the evidence.

Oral Surgeon

carrickmilo wrote: »

If he knows so much how does he explain the movement then?

I've gone from 34.5mm intercanine width to 41mm in 9 months of wearing an ALF and large clearly visible gaps are opening up around certain teeth.

I just posted here to see if anybody else was in similar treatment and wanted to swop notes.

There is a derisory tone to his post which doesn't reflect the evidence.

Yeah, I'm sure it comes as no surprise to Orthoman that 9 months of braces have moved your teeth. However, you knowing your intercanine width probably does!! Was your orthodontist so surprised that they moved that he had to share this info with you??

What is the plan for these gaps, will it take 9 months to close them again?

Using evidence and ALF orthodontics in the same post is bound to get you slagged... Sorry...

OS

carrickmilo

The dentist keeps me up to date with critical measurements. I've now been developed enough laterally so the next stage is anterior development. The goal is now to continue opening up the pre-molar extraction sites and replace them with either inplants or bridges. Its about a 6mm requirement on each side. I really want all 28 teeth back

I don't understand the resistance because it's going according to plan in my case. Why are people doubtful? Is it because it's a new treatment and generalists don't have the training?

Oral Surgeon

carrickmilo wrote: »

The dentist keeps me up to date with critical measurements. I've now been developed enough laterally so the next stage is anterior development. The goal is now to continue opening up the pre-molar extraction sites and replace them with either inplants or bridges. Its about a 6mm requirement on each side. I really want all 28 teeth back

I don't understand the resistance because it's going according to plan in my case. Why are people doubtful? Is it because it's a new treatment and generalists don't have the training?

It's great that things are working out for you and we all hope that you get a good result but don't mistake our comments as a lack of understanding or as resistance for the sake of it. Fitz, orthoman & I are not generalists, we've done our specialist training and treat in accordance with the literature.

ALF may be working for you and you say that you want 28 teeth back but your treatment is not the panacea for all and that is where you detect the resistance... You have specific demands that most don't really want or need to know about. Most overcrowding cases are best treated with premolar removal and alignment of anterior teeth. Having premolars removed is not a bad thing in most patients like this- I know a guy who insisted on non-extraction orthodontics- he ended up with 32 straight buck teeth, looked like Mr Ed, could barely close his lips.... ended up getting the braces back on, premolars out and has a really good result now....

OS

day dreamer

Hi there,

The jaw bones stop growing shortly after puberty so orthodontics cannot make them expand very much after the age of 15.

The teeth can be widened to a degree but it is limited by ammount of bone underneath, no technique can make adult bones longer without surgery or distraction. You can accomodate the teeth but whether it is appropriate is another question.

The extractions may not have been appropriate but nobody here can answer if you should have had the extractions when you were younger or if the curent treatment is apprpriate. If it works for you then great and well done to all concerned but you cannot come on and advertise a new miraculous techinique and assume it will suit every patient.

I am not an implant expert but as far as I know to replace a premolar you would ideally need 7-7.5mm in width

Encorus

carrickmilo wrote: »

Is anybody else being treated with an ALF appliance?
I'm an orthodontic retreatment case and I'm having my maxilla widened to undo all the damage - would be interesting to exchange notes with anyone in a similar situation

I'm currently being treated with a maxillary ALF appliance to widen the area, as I have Class III malocclusion. I started about 2 months ago. It's just a temporary stage for a few more months until I put Damon braces on (with microimplants and rubber bands) as I was diagnosed with periodontitis and so the orthodontist decided to use ALF as an alternative method until the condition of my gum stabilizes (I'm being treated by a periodontist).

I was wondering if you remove the ALF appliance daily when cleaning your teeth? Or does only the doctor remove it? I used to remove it daily or every other day, but sometimes when I put it back in it doesn't go very easily back, and I hear scraping sounds against my teeth, making me think that the U clasps or the crescent edges of the ALF are scratching my enamel. I'm probably just being oversensitive though... can such lightwire damage enamel at all if it scrapes against it?

beam me up scottie

Can I really encourage everyone to go to an Orthodontist as opposed to a dentist with a special interest in orthodontics (ie he reckons he can make a few bob out of unsuspecting clients)

Some of these enquiries about expansion devices are very concerning. Especially in a patient who has a history of periodontal problems and is a Class III. (If that is correct)

If you are not sure whether your dentist is an Orthodontist the dental council has a registered list of specialists on their website. Everyone on there has completed their specialist training. Go to http://www.dentalcouncil.ie
specialist register section. They are supposed to all know what they are doing. As they've spent in general 5 years training 3 years doing exams and another 3 years doing special orthodontic exams. As opposed to a dentist who does it for a year or two in the undergraduate programme.

Dentists that are here.....did you know that your medical insurance is going up due to the increase in claims directly related to new Orthodontic malpractice cases??? This is happening soon and is due to the amount of dentists who think they know how to do Orthodontics???

What can we do about it?

Oral Surgeon

beam me up scottie wrote: »

Dentists that are here.....did you know that your medical insurance is going up due to the increase in claims directly related to new Orthodontic malpractice cases??? This is happening soon and is due to the amount of dentists who think they know how to do Orthodontics???

What can we do about it?

You're preaching to the choir Scottie......

Big_G

I had a huge post to reply to some of the posts here about non-specialist ortho but I realised its more suited to the lounge, as are any comments about dental malpractice insurance. There are a number of other reasons why malpractice insurance is going up, not least of which the number of cases goes up during a recession, fact.

theg81der

Can you please pm me the details of dentists doing the ALF method? And if you don`t mind could you give me an idea of the price. Given the lack of other alternatives this may be exactly what i`m looking for.

day dreamer

hi there

I cant give you an idea of the cost of "ALF" orthodontics or anyone prividing it. This is not a well recognised of scientifically supported technique. Looking at your "micrognathia" post I cannot see it working for you. After growth has stopped the jaws cannot be made longer.

I presume by this (and please correct me if I am wrong) that you have gone to an orthodontist or dentist already and want another opinion.

A second opinion is often a good thing but sometimes things are too good to be true

theg81der

Day dreamer they don`t want to work on me without surgery I`ve seen several. Its almost like " we`re very sorry, we see how bad your problem is but you can slink off and die now". The asthetics are not the main issue I have breathing and swallowing problem etc I have to do something to just halt it.

Oral Surgeon

theg81der wrote: »

Day dreamer they don`t want to work on me without surgery I`ve seen several. Its almost like " we`re very sorry, we see how bad your problem is but you can slink off and die now". The asthetics are not the main issue I have breathing and swallowing problem etc I have to do something to just halt it.

Sorry to hear about your difficulties in getting treatment.
Sounds to me like there are problems in not having treatment as well as in having treatment. Sure there can be problems intubating patients with small jaws but that does not make it impossible. Was there another medical issue during the GA aswell??
If you have problems with breathing now then really surgery is probably indicated.

Pm me if you would like 2 recommendations of surgeons who would treat patients such as yourself. If you go to a private clinic, they might shy away from the more tricky cases... You will need orthodontic input aswell...

OS

theg81der

Yes there is another problem something to do with the anatomy of my neck can`t remember the name sorry and my overall health is bad although I don`t have any diagnosis I am just always sick. I died during a simple wisdom tooth removal the surgeon I had is said to be the best so I think when he said I am too high risk for surgery I am listening. For asthetics if I ever got myself in any reasonable health and found a capable surgeon I would get a chin implant under local. The surgeon said my bones are extremely strong also which I would believe as I`ve had several occasions where my bones should have broken but didn`t.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Appologies if I caused offence, I see dozens of shills every week usually following up conversations with a link to their facial pain clinic. I will tidy up this thread and lock it. Dentists can discuss this further in the lounge. Dont resurect old threads please, certainly if you have nothing worthwhile to contribute.