Buying in Bulgaria

bigneacy

Hi,

Was looking to get some information on buying in Bulgaria. I have read through this forum and done a search to see what I could find also. I have searched many other forums, so I have seen all the horror stories.

Have seen how its "vulgaria", roads are ****, people are rude, no laws, mafia-infested etc. etc. have also seen lots of positives and its something we would like to do. The idea of straight out owning our own place in a sunny (for some months) country is just very appealing. It would just be a holiday home for us, we will continue to rent here in Ireland.

We have decided to purchase a property in Rural bulgaria (Central north) about 2 hours from Sofia.

The property is in need of renovation/extension and landscape works, and we can see a lot of potential in it. It's in a small village near some larger towns and cities and not far from the Danube/Romanian border. It is about a 2.5 hour drive from Bucharest also, so worries about no winter flights are seen to by this. Blue Airways and Aer Lingus are flying direct from Dublin to Bucaresti several times per week for around €100 return, so that's another worrying point gone.

We are not going to be getting a mortgage or home loan, we will be funding this project through saved cash. We aren't expecting huge returns and its money that we'd be upset to lose, but not the end of the world.

We have found an agent who has set out his prices from the outset, and agreed that the price we will be paying will be the final price - no more no less. For a 3 bed rural property in need of refurb with 1/2 acre of enclosed land we will be paying €4670. This includes the cost of setting up the bulgarian company to purchase the land, the legal fees, and his fee. Also: The estate agent hasn't made any promises about guaranteed rental or anything else of the sort. He has been very unfront about local planning laws and has given assurances over planning permissions and titles deeds.

We were planning to go and view in October, start the process and again in February before handing over all the cash.

So - are we mad? Have we overlooked anything? Any better suggestions?

irishh_bob

bigneacy wrote: »

Hi,

Was looking to get some information on buying in Bulgaria. I have read through this forum and done a search to see what I could find also. I have searched many other forums, so I have seen all the horror stories.

Have seen how its "vulgaria", roads are ****, people are rude, no laws, mafia-infested etc. etc. have also seen lots of positives and its something we would like to do. The idea of straight out owning our own place in a sunny (for some months) country is just very appealing. It would just be a holiday home for us, we will continue to rent here in Ireland.

We have decided to purchase a property in Rural bulgaria (Central north) about 2 hours from Sofia.

The property is in need of renovation/extension and landscape works, and we can see a lot of potential in it. It's in a small village near some larger towns and cities and not far from the Danube/Romanian border. It is about a 2.5 hour drive from Bucharest also, so worries about no winter flights are seen to by this. Blue Airways and Aer Lingus are flying direct from Dublin to Bucaresti several times per week for around €100 return, so that's another worrying point gone.

We are not going to be getting a mortgage or home loan, we will be funding this project through saved cash. We aren't expecting huge returns and its money that we'd be upset to lose, but not the end of the world.

We have found an agent who has set out his prices from the outset, and agreed that the price we will be paying will be the final price - no more no less. For a 3 bed rural property in need of refurb with 1/2 acre of enclosed land we will be paying €4670. This includes the cost of setting up the bulgarian company to purchase the land, the legal fees, and his fee. Also: The estate agent hasn't made any promises about guaranteed rental or anything else of the sort. He has been very unfront about local planning laws and has given assurances over planning permissions and titles deeds.

We were planning to go and view in October, start the process and again in February before handing over all the cash.

So - are we mad? Have we overlooked anything? Any better suggestions?

if i were buying a summer home in a sunny country ( all year round ) , id go with spain , thier property market is more bust than our own , bound to be endless bargains at the moment , no worrys about property deeds not being legit like in bulgaria

not even wrong

bigneacy wrote: »

We have found an agent who has set out his prices from the outset, and agreed that the price we will be paying will be the final price - no more no less.

You need advice from a person who speaks Bulgarian and knows the Bulgarian property market and Bulgarian property law, and who is not in any way affiliated with the seller. Do not use the solicitor recommended or referred or suggested by the seller.

It would just be a holiday home for us, we will continue to rent here in Ireland.

If you ever decide to buy in Ireland, you will no longer be counted as a first time buyer. This is not such a big deal as it would have been as the government has already abolished the stamp duty exemption and is slowly withdrawing mortgage interest relief.

magneticimpulse

I think it would be very complicated.

I live in France and speak fluent French. I am just renting, yet dealing with tax/council tax, etc is a nightmare in French.

Dealing with services such as electricity/heating/internet again is a nightmare. Not many people outside of universities speak English.

Also you could be double taxed...I am not sure on Bulgaria's situation but I know if I had property in Ireland, the French would be able to include that into my tax bill.

Also you rely solely on Aer Lingus for getting you there?? The airline could stop the route/go bust. How would you get there from Ireland? Bus it all the way?

Overall I would prefer to take some cheap holidays each year and it is less commitment/hassle/trouble.

The_Conductor

magneticimpulse wrote: »

Also you could be double taxed...I am not sure on Bulgaria's situation but I know if I had property in Ireland, the French would be able to include that into my tax bill.

Not only this- but France and Germany have a common approach- a wealth tax on any of their citizens who own property- irrespective of whether its in France or Germany, and irrespective of whether the person is normally resident in France or Germany (its why there are so many Germans selling their Portuguese holiday homes at the moment).

So- you are double taxed- as a citizen and as a tax resident, and its up to you to unravel the double taxation via the intricacies of a tax return detailing the whole shebang (and hope that whichever the second country is- that they have a reciprochal tax arrangement with France or Germany).

Ireland is proposing to tax any property held abroad by Irish tax residents in a similar manner- so your Bulgarian holiday home would incur Irish tax........

mari2222

bigneacy wrote: »

Hi,
So - are we mad? Have we overlooked anything? Any better suggestions?

Mad? I don't know, but it would not appeal to me - I wouldn't take a present of it before looking into local taxes/ utilities/ legal title recognition/ crime etc

Senna

Why are you picking this house, have you been to the area before and liked the village? It sounds like its not the easiest place to get to.

If the house cost €5k as is, how much would it cost if it was ready to move into. I would prefer to buy a finished house, a lot less hassle, especially in a country were you cant speak the language. Might be worth while to spend more now, to have less problems in the future.

Your buying with cash and your not looking at it as an investment, its a small amount of cash, but dont let the small initial layout blind you to the costs and trouble it might bring you to get the house up to standard.

Treehouse72

bigneacy wrote: »

We aren't expecting huge returns

You should budget on not making any return above re-sale cost. To even have it in the back of your mind that you might make more is, in my view, hugely counter-productive because it might lead you to making bad decisions (for example, continuing to put money into it beyond an initial budget.)

Budget for losing the lot would be my advice and then things can only be better from there. If the property something you will be getting utility from, that is what you are paying for, not the promise of future returns.

Kosseegan

Shil! Who is fooled?

The_Conductor

Kosseegan wrote: »

Shil! Who is fooled?

If you think a post or a thread is a shil- use the report post function- it is not satisfactory to take matters into your own hands and declare such- that is a decision the moderators have to make.

Regards,

SMcCarrick

soirish

not even wrong wrote: »

You need advice from a person who speaks Bulgarian and knows the Bulgarian property market and Bulgarian property law, and who is not in any way affiliated with the seller. Do not use the solicitor recommended or referred or suggested by the seller.

Would be glad to help out. Please PM me.

Mickey Dazzler

Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.

You should at least spend of few summers in the area in a rental property to make sure you like the place. You could end up hating the place.

No matter what you are told when the dust has settled you will have paid twice that figure.

CamillaRhodes

I don't know Bulgaria but do know other parts of the Balkans well (particularly Serbia) where you can find properties in rural areas for less than 10k, which sounds really attractive as a little holiday bolt-hole. But the points raised by the other posters above are all very valid:

- how will you get there if the cheap airlines pull out of Sofia? this happens quite often in more 'volatile' tourism regions - i've lost count of the airports Ryanair has flown into in the Balkans for a season or two, only to pull out afterwards.

- how will you get out to your country retreat? will you hire a car each time, or will you take a 2 hour bus (which, knowing the balkans, does not mean you will arrive at your destination 2 hours after your flight lands)? These will add significantly either to your holiday costs or ability to take quick flying visits over there.

- how will you handle local bureaucracy and administration without speaking Bulgarian? even things like paying your electricity is not straightforward in the balkans, there's rarely online payment available, etc. etc.

- how will you maintain the property / make sure it is not burgled or damaged when you are not there? Winters are long and hard in the Balkans, ensuring rooves don't become too heavy with snow is essential on older properties.

Even with a partner from Serbia, who speaks the language, we're still a little reticent about buying a similar property for ourselves for many of the above reasons. And that's with a very strong pull to the region - his family are there, we want our kids to know where their dad comes from, etc. If you don't know the Balkans, you may not love it - personally I do, but the region is kinda like marmite. (That said, even Serbs think Bulgaria is a bit of a kip... but that's probably just the Serbian mentality

If we were just buying for a holiday home, we'd go for Spain.

CamillaRhodes

whoa, sorry, just saw the original post was from last year. zombies are out tonight.

The_Conductor

Yup!
Thread closed.