The increase in internet usage has led to an increase in atheism

Rabidlamb

I find it an awful pity there was no internet in 60's Ireland where people had no forum to speak out against the church.
It would have been the perfect time for people to speak out anonymously.
Do you believe the internet has played a part in the acceleration of secularisation today or would it have happened at the same rate ?.

Tin Foil Hat

Rabidlamb wrote: »

I find it an awful pity there was no internet in 60's Ireland where people had no forum to speak out against the church.
It would have been the perfect time for people to speak out anonymously.
Do you believe the internet has played a part in the acceleration of secularisation today or would it have happened at the same rate ?.

Of course it has played a part. For the first time anyone who has doubts about religion has an easily accessible source of information and kindred spirits at their fingertips. No longer is our stream of information controlled by religious schools, religious parents, or a media subservient to an established church.

MagicMarker

The increase in the use of the internet has led to an increase in everything.

Dades

Information is the enemy of religion.

swampgas

Rabidlamb wrote: »

I find it an awful pity there was no internet in 60's Ireland where people had no forum to speak out against the church.
It would have been the perfect time for people to speak out anonymously.
Do you believe the internet has played a part in the acceleration of secularisation today or would it have happened at the same rate ?.

Considering the amount of censorship in Ireland at the time as well, of books and films, it must have been really difficult to find useful/informative/provocative reading materials and art.

The internet when it arrived just blew past all the old barriers. There are plenty of governments trying to put the walls back up, but I suspect the genie is truly out of the bottle at this stage.

Bullseye1

I would say it's more the corruption of men in positions of power that has a bigger impact. People have turned away from the Church because they protected pedophiles and neglected the children in their care.

Just as the Church has not provided 100% proof of the existence of a god neither has science provided 100% proof of his non-existence.

Sarky

Dades wrote: »

Information is the enemy of religion.

This. The internet put long-unchallenged and stagnant ideas out in the deep end with every other idea ever conceived. It's not going to survive unless it, ahem, evolves. That'll make a lot of people unhappy, but people die of old age.

Roger Hassenforder

How do you prove something doesnt exist?
does science have to prove elves dont exist too?

Dades

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

How do you prove something doesnt exist?
does science have to prove elves dont exist too?

It doesn't. You can't disprove a negative.

Of course the onus is on the person making the positive declaration to prove it, rather than on someone else to disprove it.

Roger Hassenforder

should have included a "FFS" there i reckon before my post!

Penn

Bullseye1 wrote: »

I would say it's more the corruption of men in positions of power that has a bigger impact. People have turned away from the Church because they protected pedophiles and neglected the children in their care.

Just as the Church has not provided 100% proof of the existence of a god neither has science provided 100% proof of his non-existence.

Church proof of god: 1%
Science proof of no god: 100%

Please note there is a 1% margin of error in those results

Bullseye1

Very scientific of you.

Roger Hassenforder

Barrington wrote: »

Please note there is a 1% margin of error in those results

is that measurement of uncertainty a whole number, or rounded up?
So you could be saying there is like a 0.00003% chance?

Headlines tomorrow:
"Atheist in internet volte face"

goose2005

Bullseye1 wrote: »

I would say it's more the corruption of men in positions of power that has a bigger impact. People have turned away from the Church because they protected pedophiles and neglected the children in their care.

Which shows how irrational their beliefs were in the first place - if they believed in demonic possession, transubstantiation, the Holy Spirit, purgatory, the magisterium, the communion of saints, divine inspiration of scripture, etc. , they would hardly turn away just because priests committed crimes. But religion is a social identity thing much more than an actual belief thing.

yawnstretch

I think the internet has allowed numerous minorities to discover other like-minded people. As a result, there is a perceived change when mostly it's just web-based concentration.

robindch

Dades wrote: »

You can't disprove a negative.

At the risk of being pedantic -- but hey, what's this forum for? -- yes, you can disprove a negative proposition.

I think you're mixing up mathematical proof where all four variations co-exist happily (proof/disproof of negative/positive propositions) with physical demonstrations of non-existence which, at best, reduce to arguments concerning definition, observation, reasoning and conclusion, and, at worst, reduce to the murky world of the Measurement problem.

/removes anorak again

pH

robindch wrote: »

At the risk of being pedantic -- but hey, what's this forum for? -- yes, you can disprove a negative proposition.

This is a good page on this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_of_absence

It also covers the much trotted out nonsense "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence".

soterpisc

My Father is an Atheist, used to lecture in Trinity. So as far as information at home we were well informed why God did not exist.

However when I was 19 living in Paris a Group of Friends brought me to a Catholic Prayer gathering and it was like finding my soul for the 1st time. (and my wife)

Happily very Religous for past 20 years. My Father thinks I'm brainwashed

Reality is even before the internet I had all the info at home as to why not believe. With the internet nothing really has changed. (except I can connect better with friends on facebook).

Tin Foil Hat

Tin Foil Hat wrote: »

Of course it has played a part. For the first time anyone who has doubts about religion has an easily accessible source of information and kindred spirits at their fingertips. No longer is our stream of information controlled by religious schools, religious parents, or a media subservient to an established church.

Dades wrote: »

Information is the enemy of religion.

Lol! One short sentence is so much more powerful than a paragraph of waffle.

Turtwig

Dades wrote: »

Information is the enemy of religion.

Yep up until the printing press took off the Church almost had a full monopoly on education in the middle ages. Shortly after the reformation and tonnes of schisms began. On youtube any Christian that posts a video is usually thumped to pieces by atheists. However that is only part of the story. Facebook is a HUGE problem as it has essentially allowed the idea of 'like' and popular opinions to trump everything else. This 'like' culture has permeated almost every single popular website making almost every argument a case of popularity. In this regard the internet may be leading to an increase in atheism, I don't know for certain. What I am depressingly confident of though is that the internet is leading to more and more irrational thinking. Just google 'global warming' and you'll find folks who have no clue what they are talking about (on both sides) arguing almost religiously over it. It's depressing to read and when you see a facebook status with over 30 likes of people you know it makes it even all the more depressing. The internet is an awesome tool if only people would actually use it though. The amount of people I've encountered on facebook who seem to think that linking to any website that supports their view counts as a valid argument is depressing.

Ooops kind of got carried away there..:o

Jimoslimos

Correlation =/= causation

Don't necessarily believe that it has, education and lesser control of the state by the church has had more impact IMO

Galvasean

I'd say it's helped a lot of closet atheists 'out' themselves. In years gone by a lack of belief was something to be ashamed of and hidden at all costs. Now doubters can do a quick google and end up somewhere like here and see for themselves that there are others just like them. And plenty of them too!

whatdoicare

I can most definitely agree that the internet has helped people to decide against religion and to even make a stand against religion.

From my own experience, if I didn't have access to the internet a lot of life choices would have been dominated by my own mothers beliefs and I would not have had the information to back up my non-belief.

Take my wedding - my mam insisted that to get married in the place where myself and the hubby wanted to get married (a castle) was simply impossible and I had no choice but to get hitched in the church of her choosing or else a registry office (which is an ugly building in my opinion) - five minutes on Google and I had found several alternatives - ten minutes later I hand her the receipt after booking the venue we wanted, with a registrar ready to go, plus a few extras that went very well with a castle wedding.:D All the information I needed was there to rebuke any myths that she tried to throw at me. Her face was priceless when she realised that I wasn't going to be following along like a sheep (I later found out she had actually booked a church in the hopes that our plans would fall apart)!

None of this would have been possible if not for the internet - I would have ended up having no choice but to do what people who do believe wanted me to do - for no other reason than a lack of information. Others who were at our wedding have since used the information I sourced for a funeral, a naming ceremony for a child and one is in the middle of organising an alternative to a communion for her daughter (the daughter wanted the dress and pressies like her friends and couldn't give too hoots about the church part)

My Dad often comments that if he knew then what he knows now - he would have taken a stand against having us baptised, communioned and confirmed - as he didn't believe in religion but thought he was the only one and was too scared to broach the subject with others.

So - in short : I love you internets!

Alopex

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Correlation =/= causation

Don't necessarily believe that it has, education and lesser control of the state by the church has had more impact IMO

I disagree. Its cool to atheist on the internet. Young people are exposed to cynicism about religion through funny cartoons like in the funny side thread. That gets retweeted on facebook and is far more clever than religion's version.

Therefore young people take the atheism side and don't bother with church anymore.

Before the internet it was far easier to ridicule evolution for the likes of preachers. not so easy when anyone can access how it works

The internet is a major headache for anything that depends on bullsh*tting people.

soterpisc

whatdoicare wrote: »

From my own experience, if I didn't have access to the internet a lot of life choices would have been dominated by my own mothers beliefs and I would not have had the information to back up my non-belief.

I don't agree. There have been many rigorous atheists long before the internet. If anything the internet has caused a herd mentality.

It may have caused increased Agnosticism.

Roger Hassenforder

soterpisc wrote: »

I don't agree. There have been many rigorous atheists long before the internet. If anything the internet has caused a herd mentality.

It may have caused increased Agnosticism.

how can you disagree with someones experience?

whatdoicare

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

how can you disagree with someones experience?

Haha I was just about to write that :pac:

Roger Hassenforder

spellchecking "experience" slowed me down a bit too!

Andrewf20

My theory is a combination of the following:

Awareness of arguments against religon on TV / internet from Harris, Dawkins, Hitchens etc + Catholic scandals / less taboo in questioning organised religon + greater education in ourselves about the scientific workings of the cosmos = rise in Atheism which I believe will prove extremely difficult to reverse.

The Mad Hatter

swampgas wrote: »

The internet when it arrived just blew past all the old barriers. There are plenty of governments trying to put the walls back up, but I suspect the genie is truly out of the bottle at this stage.

And that's the way the cookie crumbles.

recedite

soterpisc wrote: »

My Father is an Atheist, used to lecture in Trinity. So as far as information at home we were well informed why God did not exist.

However when I was 19 living in Paris a Group of Friends brought me to a Catholic Prayer gathering and it was like finding my soul for the 1st time. (and my wife)

Happily very Religous for past 20 years. My Father thinks I'm brainwashed

Reality is even before the internet I had all the info at home as to why not believe. With the internet nothing really has changed. (except I can connect better with friends on facebook).

OK so you kept going back to this prayer group because of the girl, but eventually you were seduced by the BS

I bet they all clap their hands with glee now, when you tell the story of how you were converted from a life of atheism.

You are a spiritual dolphin; a creature whose ancestors evolved to climb up out of the water, but then it decided to go back into the sea to frolic with the fish.

KeithAFC

Like it has been said, more information for people. But also people are far too busy now in life in general to read or worry about "god" or religion or anything like that. Paying the bills and putting food on the table is more important.