Sky box degrading Eircom BB?

Condatis

I was not aware that when Sky was installed here they connected the phone line to the back of their two boxes. My daughter made the arrangements with Sky and the issue just didn't come up.

Now when a problem arose with Eircom BB they asked third about party equipment on the line I told them that there was none – I just didn't know what had been done.

Eircom tell me that Sky regularly make this unauthorised diversion of an Eircom line to the Sky box causing problems for the BB connection. These problems can include short-circuiting the modem.

Has anybody else encountered this problem?

Why do Sky do this?

I have now disconnected the phone line from the Sky box – how will this affect the Sky service?

PS: I am now awaiting a new modem while I squat on a neighbour's WiFi.

Kensington

Have you multiroom ie. you pay €15 per month for the second box? If so, you MUST keep both boxes connected to the phoneline or they will start charging you full price for both boxes.

If you only pay for service on one box, then there will be no effect on your service if you don't connect the phoneline.

Connecting the boxes to the phoneline should have no effect as long as you have DSL filters on both boxes.

Condatis

Kensington wrote: »

Have you multiroom ie. you pay €15 per month for the second box? If so, you MUST keep both boxes connected to the phoneline or they will start charging you full price for both boxes.

If you only pay for service on one box, then there will be no effect on your service if you don't connect the phoneline.

Connecting the boxes to the phoneline should have no effect as long as you have DSL filters on both boxes.

Yes we pay for Multi-room.

How would I know about DSL filters on the Sky boxes? Is is reasonable to assume that Sky would have done this?

What Sky appear to have done is to run a phone line from each Sky box, spliced them together into one phone plug which then goes into the Eircom socket.

Why do Sky need a phone line when the service is delivered by satellite?

Kensington

They probably didn't set them up - what way is your phoneline wired?

E.g. Your Master Eircom socket where your phone line comes into the house, what connects to this? Have you an internal Extension to run multiple phones around the house? Where does your modem connect? Other phones?

Sky require a phone line connection when you have multiroom to make sure both boxes are at the same address.

jor el

Condatis wrote: »

How would I know about DSL filters on the Sky boxes? Is is reasonable to assume that Sky would have done this?

No, it's your responsibility to make sure that all phone equipment is properly filtered. Otherwise it will interfere with your broadband, which you have just fond out. Put a filter on the line going to the Sky boxes, and that'll solve it.

Condatis wrote: »

Why do Sky need a phone line when the service is delivered by satellite?

To make sure the box is in your house, and not being used somewhere else. You can get multi-room without the phone lines connected, but there's a penalty cost to pay. You could also just disconnect the lines from the boxes, but Sky can and do cut people off for doing this.

All you need is a filter.

Condatis

Kensington wrote: »

They probably didn't set them up - what way is your phoneline wired?

E.g. Your Master Eircom socket where your phone line comes into the house, what connects to this? Have you an internal Extension to run multiple phones around the house? Where does your modem connect? Other phones?

Sky require a phone line connection when you have multiroom to make sure both boxes are at the same address.

There is the 'Master Eircom socket' into which I had plugged a splitter. From that splitter came phone service on one side and the modem on the other.

When Sky came they put a splitter into the splitter to carry their spliced phone line.

Thank you for your input.

Condatis

jor el wrote: »

No, it's your responsibility to make sure that all phone equipment is properly filtered. Otherwise it will interfere with your broadband, which you have just fond out. Put a filter on the line going to the Sky boxes, and that'll solve it.

To make sure the box is in your house, and not being used somewhere else. You can get multi-room without the phone lines connected, but there's a penalty cost to pay. You could also just disconnect the lines from the boxes, but Sky can and do cut people off for doing this.

All you need is a filter.

Thank you for your input.

I now understand why Sky need the phone line.

So! Does the filter connect directly between the splitter and the plug on the phone line?

When I wanted to install Phonewatch a few years ago Eircom said that it would not operate with BB. They later came up a solution – which I now think may one of these DSL filters. Is it likely that such a filter is in the Phonewatch box? I cannot see one as it is all boxed in.

Where would I get these filters? Peats or Maplin I suppose!

Thank you.

Kensington

Condatis wrote: »

Thank you for your input.

I now understand why Sky need the phone line.

So! Does the filter connect directly between the splitter and the plug on the phone line?

When I wanted to install Phonewatch a few years ago Eircom said that it would not operate with BB. They later came up a solution – which I now think may one of these DSL filters. Is it likely that such a filter is in the Phonewatch box? I cannot see one as it is all boxed in.

Where would I get these filters? Peats or Maplin I suppose!

Thank you.

Correct! Peats or Maplin will supply them to you, should be less than €10.

You need a filter to be placed between the phoneline plug and the splitter to the two Sky box lines.

Basically, the way to think of it is only your DSL modem should have direct, unfiltered connectivity to your phoneline at any point. Any other device connected to your line MUST be filtered at some point between the active line and the device.

Any other questions, shout!

Condatis

Kensington wrote: »

Correct! Peats or Maplin will supply them to you, should be less than €10.

You need a filter to be placed between the phoneline plug and the splitter to the two Sky box lines.

Basically, the way to think of it is only your DSL modem should have direct, unfiltered connectivity to your phoneline at any point. Any other device connected to your line MUST be filtered at some point between the active line and the device.

Any other questions, shout!

That means then that I should fit filters also to the phone line and to the fax machine!

Kensington

Everthing apart from the DSL modem must have a filter between it and the phone line, yes.

Condatis

Thanks again.

Is this common knowledge among users do you think?

Are there users complaining about the performance of their internet service who could improve it by fitting filters?

Solair

You'll find that your DSL provider and your DSL modem instruction booklet would have stated that you should fit a filter to EVERY device connected to the phone line except the DSL modem itself. They will also almost always provide several filters in the box with the modem. If you call your provider, e.g. eircom or Vodafone at home etc, they will usually send you out extra filters if you need them too. Although, it's usually less hassle to just pick some up in a DIY store e.g. Woodies, B&Q etc all sell them as do computer shops etc.

As far as eircom's concerned, your Sky Digibox is just another analogue telephone device on the line, it's no different from a normal phone, a fax machine, a cordless phone, etc etc.

There's no such thing as an "unauthorised diversion" of the line. All Sky do is connect their box to your line, usually by just plugging it into a convenient telephone socket.

Eircom have absolutely nothing to do with the internal wiring of your phone line in your house or with any of your equipment. Their responsibility ends at the first eircom-branded socket (NTU) in your house.

If you simply purchase an in-line DSL filter, remove the phone plug from the back of the Sky Box and plug the filter in to the socket on the back of the box then re-connect the cable to the socket on the filter, you will be sorted!

<Sky Box>----<DSL filter>----<phone line>

It doesn't matter which way the filter is connected, as long as it's on the line.

Because Ireland uses RJ11 plugs and sockets for phones, it makes things much more flexible than the UK!

What I don't understand is why in this day and age, they don't just include a DSL filter in the Sky box. It would eliminate a lot of hassle.

Same for cordless phones, it's only a few tiny bit of extra circuitry that would cost a few cents at the manufacture stage.

It's safe to assume that a very large % of homes have DSL!

DSL filter:



This should be connected between every device (phones, sky boxes, faxes, etc) and the phone line.

DSL splitter:



This device is just a filter with a spare socket to pass the line through.
You fit this where your DSL modem is. One side can be used for the modem, and the other for the phone i.e. one socket is filtered, the modem one isn't.

If you don't need a phone / other device where your modem is plugged in, just plug the modem straight into the wall without any filters.

Condatis

That's interesting. As I said in my initial post the modem died and I will have a new one tomorrow – so I now have all the filters that I need. In fact I have one each of those illustrated above.

But for people who don't fit filters and have BB and other devices on the same line will there always be consequences for their BB or modem?

Kensington

Condatis wrote: »

That's interesting. As I said in my initial post the modem died and I will have a new one tomorrow – so I now have all the filters that I need. In fact I have one each of those illustrated above.

But for people who don't fit filters and have BB and other devices on the same line will there always be consequences for their BB or modem?

Yes.

Generally the most noticeable consequence is your internet connection dropping whenever the phone is picked up and again when it is hung up. It can also cause the DSL modem to permanently sync with the exchange at a lower speed than it otherwise could (your internet appears slower) due to the interference caused by other devices on the line.

The point of the filters is to allow only signals in the voice part of the phone line to get through for anything that is not a DSL modem.
Without filters, things like picking up or replacing the handset causes a sudden blast of noise in both the voice and the DSL parts which will knock the modem off temporarily and require it to resync with the exchange.

axle108

Solair wrote: »

This device is just a filter with a spare socket to pass the line through.
You fit this where your DSL modem is. One side can be used for the modem, and the other for the phone i.e. one socket is filtered, the modem one isn't.
If you don't need a phone / other device where your modem is plugged in, just plug the modem straight into the wall without any filters.

The device is not a filter with a spare socket. The modem side of the filter is to filter out the lower frequency speech signal. You still need the filter plugged into the socket where the modem is plugged in, whether you have a phone beside it or not.

cute_cow

Had the same issue with Eircom/Sky. Rang Sky and the guy said once you have the line in for 12 months minimum, you can remove it.
We did this about 6 months ago and Sky have never contacted us about it and our broadband is much better.

SickBoy

axle108 wrote: »

The device is not a filter with a spare socket. The modem side of the filter is to filter out the lower frequency speech signal. You still need the filter plugged into the socket where the modem is plugged in, whether you have a phone beside it or not.

Solair is correct, there's only 1 filtered side(the phone side). The other side is unfiltered and just acts as a pass through in order to connect a modem and phone to one telephone point.
If there's no phone connecting to the socket just connect the modem directly to the telephone socket.

cute_cow

cute_cow wrote: »

Had the same issue with Eircom/Sky. Rang Sky and the guy said once you have the line in for 12 months minimum, you can remove it.
We did this about 6 months ago and Sky have never contacted us about it and our broadband is much better.

Only if you don't have multiroom. Sky carry out checks to ensure that the two boxes are on the same line and will charge a penalty if they cannot verify this. I know a friend who had the boxes connected but the caller ID was suppressed due to the line being ex-directory. Sky contacted him about this, asking to enable caller ID.

axle108

SickBoy wrote: »

Solair is correct, there's only 1 filtered side(the phone side). The other side is unfiltered and just acts as a pass through in order to connect a modem and phone to one telephone point.
If there's no phone connecting to the socket just connect the modem directly to the telephone socket.

my mistake. apologies solair.
lower frequency is on modem side also.

Condatis

Karsini wrote: »

Only if you don't have multiroom. Sky carry out checks to ensure that the two boxes are on the same line and will charge a penalty if they cannot verify this. I know a friend who had the boxes connected but the caller ID was suppressed due to the line being ex-directory. Sky contacted him about this, asking to enable caller ID.

I have multi-room and am also ex-directory. For all of the time that we were having problems caller display was suppressed and there was no reaction from Sky.

I have now disconnected the phone line from the Sky box. We now get a message on the television screen warning that because of this some services may not be available but no other reaction from Sky.

Incidentally I have had Eircom switch on caller display but remain ex-directory, I had not realised that I could do this. I don't like taking calls with the caller display suppressed, I consider it rude, and I would not like to impose it on others.

However my principal point is that Sky have not made an issue of the phone line being dis-connected.

Condatis

Condatis wrote: »

However my principal point is that Sky have not made an issue of the phone line being dis-connected.

But I can see their point of view, they don't want the boxes being used in another location. Without this restriction you'd see many multiroom mirror boxes being used in holiday homes or even pubs abroad. The boxes are still based on 1998 hardware, at that time the only reliable method was a phone line with caller ID enabled.

I'd like to see Sky change this, possibly with the HD boxes as they have built in ethernet, to use a geolocation service online. Then again, this could probably be beaten with a proxy.

Kensington

Condatis wrote: »

I have multi-room and am also ex-directory. For all of the time that we were having problems caller display was suppressed and there was no reaction from Sky.

I have now disconnected the phone line from the Sky box. We now get a message on the television screen warning that because of this some services may not be available but no other reaction from Sky.

Incidentally I have had Eircom switch on caller display but remain ex-directory, I had not realised that I could do this. I don't like taking calls with the caller display suppressed, I consider it rude, and I would not like to impose it on others.

However my principal point is that Sky have not made an issue of the phone line being dis-connected.

They don't always catch it straightaway but generally they will cop it eventually.

Be very careful too, they usually send you a letter asking you to re-connect to your phoneline or face being charged separate subs for each box but they don't always do this - they may simply begin charging you separately for each box without warning.

Solair

You can just add the dial prefix 142 to the Sky Box if you've a caller ID blocking issue.

142 forces caller ID to display regardless of what the line's presets are.

There's no need for any pauses (commas) or anything like that.

On your sky remote:

Press services
press 4
press 0,1 then select

And find the dial prefix option and whack in 142

No need to be fiddling with your eircom defaults.:D

Some caller ID codes for you:

141 - Blocks caller ID, regardless of defaults.(Free)
142 - Displays caller ID, regardless of defaults. (Free)
(For this call only)
1471 - last missed call number called read out. (Charged)

Condatis

Solair wrote: »

You can just add the dial prefix 142 to the Sky Box if you've a caller ID blocking issue.

142 forces caller ID to display regardless of what the line's presets are.

There's no need for any pauses (commas) or anything like that.

On your sky remote:

Press services
press 4
press 0,1 then select

And find the dial prefix option and whack in 142

No need to be fiddling with your eircom defaults.:D

Some caller ID codes for you:

141 - Blocks caller ID, regardless of defaults.(Free)
142 - Displays caller ID, regardless of defaults. (Free)
(For this call only)
1471 - last missed call number called read out. (Charged)

Does the Sky box actually call Sky? Or is it the other way around?

Solair

The Digibox periodically 'phones home' by making a modem call to a 1800 number, usually during the night. If you pick up the phone, it instantly drops the connection.

Sky can also 'poll the box' which means they send a signal over the satellite network asking the box to 'phone home'.

They have no need to call the box on the phone line, it will always phone them if asked by satellite