Commercial Van Passangers

JayTi

I drive a commercial van and use it after hours for work call outs and deliveries.
Sometimes I have no choice but to bring my child with me doing calls on the way home as her mother works nights. Has any one been stopped in a similar situation or is the fact that i am actually working with the van ok? Heard a few stories of people being stopped but still see loads of passengers in commercial cars and vans esp at the weekends.

Thanks

I know plenty of people who drive commercials as their only mode of transport some just use them for commuting because of the cheap tax and I haven't heard of anyone getting any hassle.

JayTi

The only guy I know who was stopped was driving a 2 seat commercial landcruiser with his 2 kids loose in the load area no seats or belts. Guards (local) told him to turn around and go home or he'll be done.

delly

It doesn't happen tbh and is a bit like the provisional licence holders driving on there own a few years back, meaning there is no enforcement.

Thats not to say you couldn't be done, but it would be very, very unlikely. Just ensure junior has a proper seat for the age and the van is road legal.

-Corkie-

JayTi wrote: »

The only guy I know who was stopped was driving a 2 seat commercial landcruiser with his 2 kids loose in the load area no seats or belts. Guards (local) told him to turn around and go home or he'll be done.

Well he was just a Clown for doing that.

corktina

its always been illegal to use a commercial for other purposes. We all did it anyway and still do

The big HOWEVER is that should something go wrong, you could get booked for doing it. It should be easy enough to explain you are on a call-out to some mythical job if you have a parcel or a toolkit on board, children however are a bit of a give-away!

galwaytt

corktina wrote: »

its always been illegal to use a commercial for other purposes. We all did it anyway and still do

The big HOWEVER is that should something go wrong, you could get booked for doing it. It should be easy enough to explain you are on a call-out to some mythical job if you have a parcel or a toolkit on board, children however are a bit of a give-away!

'booked' ? What is that, exactly ??

The offence you'd be (allegedly) committing is against the Finance Act. I think they GTC have bigger fish-to-fry than that, tbh.

D_murph

Funny how it didnt become a problem to use a vehicle under commercial tax terms until the country was run into the ground :rolleyes:.

People have to travel and given the way things are now, most are lucky to have one means of transport, let alone having to buy another one just for regular use when they cant afford it.

Once all the passengers in the vehicle are safely seated and belted up etc, it should not make a difference so this is nothing more than just another money making law :rolleyes:.

Fishtits

As long as the vehicle has a valid and current tax disc it is of no concern to the Gardai - the decision on what tax rate (ie commercial Vs private) should apply is down to the taxing authority - the County Council. So, if you're driving a seven seater with commercial tax, its not a Garda issue. Tell them to sod off.

If you bring a child with you, you must adhere to the seating regulations regarding bolster seats etc.

Cheers,

barura

Actually I was thinkin' about this. I'm interested in the new berlingo (hell I'm interested in a lot of things) with the 3 seats in it. Insuring that as a sole trader, could I use it for personal use then? I'd ditch my car if that is the case!

The Dagda

JayTi wrote: »

I drive a commercial van and use it after hours for work call outs and deliveries.
Sometimes I have no choice but to bring my child with me doing calls on the way home as her mother works nights. Has any one been stopped in a similar situation or is the fact that i am actually working with the van ok? Heard a few stories of people being stopped but still see loads of passengers in commercial cars and vans esp at the weekends.

Thanks

Interesting fact; there are laws that make it illegal to carry passengers without them wearing their seatbelts in a vehicle IF the vehicle has seats and seatbelts. However there is NO law against carrying passengers in a vehicle that has no seats with seatbelts (front seats excluded). Bottom line, you cannot be "done" for carrying passengers in the back of a van.

barura

The Dagda wrote: »

Interesting fact; there are laws that make it illegal to carry passengers without them wearing their seatbelts in a vehicle IF the vehicle has seats and seatbelts. However there is NO law against carrying passengers in a vehicle that has no seats with seatbelts (front seats excluded). Bottom line, you cannot be "done" for carrying passengers in the back of a van.

I don't think OP wants to put his kid in the cargo section of his van

Also, you're insured to carry as many people as there is seats in your car. It's the insurance that stops you. It is illegal to carry more than that. There has been too many cases of overcrowding the rear seat and it ending in tragedy, I don't think telling people they can get away with putting people in the back of a van on the internet is such a wise thing.

The Dagda

barura wrote: »

I don't think OP wants to put his kid in the cargo section of his van

Also, you're insured to carry as many people as there is seats in your car. It's the insurance that stops you. It is illegal to carry more than that. There has been too many cases of overcrowding the rear seat and it ending in tragedy, I don't think telling people they can get away with putting people in the back of a van on the internet is such a wise thing.

I interpreted the OP as asking what the legal position is regarding gardai stopping commercial vehicles with passengers in the back. I simply answered that question. The insurance issue varys depending on the individual insurance cover of the car/person.
Also, can I ask for a link to prove your assertion that it's illegal to carry more people than seats in a vehicle. I don't believe that's actually the case.

barura

My policy says that I'm insured to carry myself and 4 passengers. Since if I put 5 people + me in my car that would go against my policy which means it's not valid. So if I got caught in this circumstance, I would not be insured. It's illegal to drive a car without insurance and that was my reasoning.

The Dagda

barura wrote: »

My policy says that I'm insured to carry myself and 4 passengers. Since if I put 5 people + me in my car that would go against my policy which means it's not valid. So if I got caught in this circumstance, I would not be insured. It's illegal to drive a car without insurance and that was my reasoning.

You would still be insured. The 3rd parties are always covered, no matter how many there are.
Your reasoning is wrong, sorry.

barura

I don't get you. I go against my insurance which means I am not insured and you're telling me that it doesn't matter? I sure feel silly for getting insurance on my car now! Can you back up what you're saying please?

The Dagda

barura wrote: »

I don't get you. I go against my insurance which means I am not insured and you're telling me that it doesn't matter? I sure feel silly for getting insurance on my car now! Can you back up what you're saying please?

I'm on my phone so I can't post links, but take it as fact that even if you had no insurance ALL third parties would be covered.
The reasons for having insurance are many, in my opinion, one of the most important being, it's the right thing to do.

barura

The Dagda wrote: »

I'm on my phone so I can't post links, but take it as fact that even if you had no insurance ALL third parties would be covered.
The reasons for having insurance are many, in my opinion, one of the most important being, it's the right thing to do.

Man, it's the law to insure your car. It's a requirement to tax your car, which is also law. I don't really care for arguing on the internet about weather it's a technicality to have people in the back of your van. You know what, I'm surprised I suckered myself into even responding about what is common sense! You should have all your seatbelts in a car on and you should NEVER transport people in the back of a van.

If you say it's not written in the law, then I don't care. It's stupid and people die because of doing such things. I don't care if "my reasoning is wrong" and that you are "sorry" for my fallacy's, but god damn, I'll sure as hell use my common sense in these circumstances.

Edit: Look man, maybe I'm taking this too seriously. Sorry if I seem to be getting riled up. I'm just going to drop the subject since I don't think it's going anywhere constructive.

The Dagda

barura wrote: »

Man, it's the law to insure your car. It's a requirement to tax your car, which is also law. I don't really care for arguing on the internet about weather it's a technicality to have people in the back of your van. You know what, I'm surprised I suckered myself into even responding about what is common sense! You should have all your seatbelts in a car on and you should NEVER transport people in the back of a van.

If you say it's not written in the law, then I don't care. It's stupid and people die because of doing such things. I don't care if "my reasoning is wrong" and that you are "sorry" for my fallacy's, but god damn, I'll sure as hell use my common sense in these circumstances.

The OP asked a question and I answered that question. That is all.

barura

My edit didn't make it on time. This post is to point it out.

ernie999

corktina wrote: »

its always been illegal to use a commercial for other purposes. We all did it anyway and still do

The big HOWEVER is that should something go wrong, you could get booked for doing it. It should be easy enough to explain you are on a call-out to some mythical job if you have a parcel or a toolkit on board, children however are a bit of a give-away!

and i was previously insured with them commercially for 6 years with no claims etc but went with another insurer when they put my premium up after goin into administration,they now proceeded to make a point in telling me that i couldnt drive to the shop or do anything in it except work related!!
they never gave me any of that speel when they took my money before!! and if something happened i'd have been none the wiser and from what i understand i prob wouldn't have been covered?!?!

dev100

ernie999 wrote: »

and i was previously insured with them commercially for 6 years with no claims etc but went with another insurer when they put my premium up after goin into administration,they now proceeded to make a point in telling me that i couldnt drive to the shop or do anything in it except work related!!
they never gave me any of that speel when they took my money before!! and if something happened i'd have been none the wiser and from what i understand i prob wouldn't have been covered?!?!

Sure thats the anglo/ the gov trying to get the last pound of flesh out of you. My last commerical policy covered me for commerical and private/domestic use .

Guy:Incognito

ernie999 wrote: »

and i was previously insured with them commercially for 6 years with no claims etc but went with another insurer when they put my premium up after goin into administration,they now proceeded to make a point in telling me that i couldnt drive to the shop or do anything in it except work related!!
they never gave me any of that speel when they took my money before!! and if something happened i'd have been none the wiser and from what i understand i prob wouldn't have been covered?!?!

Whats covered by your policy would have been sent to you in a policy document and the insurance cert. Choosing not to read that is hardly their fault.

ernie999

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Whats covered by your policy would have been sent to you in a policy document and the insurance cert. Choosing not to read that is hardly their fault.

True, but surely it would have been written in bold writing 'YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO GO TO THE SHOPS OR DRIVE ANYWHERE UNLESS YOU ARE GOING TO OR RETURNING FROM WORK!!!' not hidden away in the small print ,i did actually read a few pages but assumed it was straight forward enough,i.e it insured my tools,i was vat registered so saved vat on fuel I heard a while ago this rule was being brought out but thought it was a lame attempt by the government at dippin your back pocket!!!

Welease

ernie999 wrote: »

True, but surely it would have been written in bold writing 'YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO GO TO THE SHOPS OR DRIVE ANYWHERE UNLESS YOU ARE GOING TO OR RETURNING FROM WORK!!!' not hidden away in the small print ,i did actually read a few pages but assumed it was straight forward enough,i.e it insured my tools,i was vat registered so saved vat on fuel I heard a while ago this rule was being brought out but thought it was a lame attempt by the government at dippin your back pocket!!!

Its not hidden in the small print..
It will clearly say if you are covered for SD&P on the main policy page..

ernie999

dev100 wrote: »

Sure thats the anglo/ the gov trying to get the last pound of flesh out of you. My last commerical policy covered me for commerical and private/domestic use .

Big time!!! the amount of small traders that cant afford to buy both a van and a car is unreal!!!! especially now as there's fook all work about!! ye save a few bob getting commercial tax and you have to use your van to transport your tools etc, bunch of gits!!!!!

dev100

ernie999 wrote: »

Big time!!! the amount of small traders that cant afford to buy both a van and a car is unreal!!!! especially now as there's fook all work about!! ye save a few bob getting commercial tax and you have to use your van to transport your tools etc, bunch of gits!!!!!

In wicklow youd have to produce more documents than what the revenue would you ask you do for an audit just to get commerical tax.

Its grand if you have a vat number herd number or a traveller. its no bother at all

The icing on the cake is Wcc are losing revenue because of the bull****, people are heading to other counties to get their vans jeeps taxed commerically. Other counties are delighted

Welease

dev100 wrote: »

In wicklow youd have to produce more documents than what the revenue would you ask you do for an audit just to get commerical tax.

Its grand if you have a vat number herd number or a traveller. its no bother at all

The icing on the cake is Wcc are losing revenue because of the bull****, people are heading to other counties to get their vans jeeps taxed commerically. Other counties are delighted

It's a discount.... you need to produce a few documents to prove you are eligible..

If you don't want the discount the pay the normal tax levels.. (assuming there is a private tax bracket.. and there is apparently a gap)..

dev100

Welease wrote: »

It's a discount.... you need to produce a few documents to prove you are eligible..

If you don't want the discount the pay the normal tax levels.. (assuming there is a private tax bracket.. and there is apparently a gap)..

You sound like a fella I work with:D He spouts the law and is all high and mighty at me too. He certainly isnt squeaky clean himself... Commerical vehicles usually end up not being used for intended use. I had written a long post but i have deleted it . I dont think theres much point in arguing with you:)

Welease

dev100 wrote: »

You sound like a fella I work with:D He spouts the law and is all high and mighty at me too. He certainly isnt squeaky clean himself... Commerical vehicles usually end up not being used for intended use. I had written a long post but i have deleted it . I dont think theres much point in arguing with you:)

Argue away.. I have a commerically taxed vehicle that I used for private use...

I know I am getting a discount of about €1000 per year on my neighbour who has to tax a private vehicle of similar engine size..

I just fail to see the reason why I would bitch and moan when I am the one abusing the system and paying a fraction of my due tax.. You may feel differently...

dev100

Welease wrote: »

Argue away.. I have a commerically taxed vehicle that I used for private use...

I know I am getting a discount of about €1000 per year on my neighbour who has to tax a private vehicle of similar engine size..

I just fail to see the reason why I would bitch and moan when I am the one abusing the system and paying a fraction of my due tax.. You may feel differently...

Ha ha i thought u were gonna start preaching at me I think the system stinks esp in wicklow that if i as an ordinary person wants a jeep commerically I should be able to. The crap about needing herd number vat number is a dose . That law gets abused by those types.