Golf 2004 mark 5 head gasket

TechnoFreek

Hi,

My 2004 golf mark 5 has started losing coolant so I had this checked when I had the car serviced a few weeks ago. The garage reckons its the head gasket.
They reckon it needs to replaced and its a big job, cost somewhere between 400 and 450 euro.

Should I take the garage at their word that this is indeed the problem and is the cost to repair competitive?

Any advice appreciated. Thanks

richardsheil

TechnoFreek wrote: »

Hi,

My 2004 golf mark 5 has started losing coolant so I had this checked when I had the car serviced a few weeks ago. The garage reckons its the head gasket.
They reckon it needs to replaced and its a big job, cost somewhere between 400 and 450 euro.

Should I take the garage at their word that this is indeed the problem and is the cost to repair competitive?

Any advice appreciated. Thanks

Reckon is a bit vague all right. Go to somebody else who can prove it- by sniffing the coolant for evidence of combustion vapour.

TechnoFreek

Sorry, the use of the word reckon with reference to the head gasket is my mistake. They said it definitely is the head gasket.

How does price sound assuming it is the head gasket?

TechnoFreek

can anyone help?

johndaman66

If there are no apparent visible leaks its most like your head gasket alright. I would assume the garage you took it to pressure tested the system or at least they should have. Perhaps a good idea to carry it along to another garage for confirmation as I'm sure you're well aware garages are known to pull fast ones.

Re the cost...it actually seems on the low side assuming its a petrol Golf. If its a diesel Golf it would seem very much on the low side. I would determine if the garage are doing a thorough job. To summarise it involves rebuilding the top end of the engine. A complete gasket set should be used as oppossed to just a new headgasket. New head bolts should be used as theres only one squeeze in them by right. The head should be sent off to an engineering works to be skimmed...of which only a small number of outlets could perform this task...around this side of the country anyway. The cooling system would generally need to be flushed and new coolant put in. Some would even recommend a new radiator. If the oil and coolant were mixing to any degree an oil and oil filter change would be a must also

Its quite a labour intensive job, with many man hours going into it. Its not one I'd be too keen about a novice or non competent mechanic doing on my car either...head bolts need to be loosened in a certain order and each by a certain degree at a time and tightened to a certain torque etc.

If the job is not done right or the parts or processes I mention above are skipped then its most likely you will have the same problem again pretty soon down the line....I've first hand experience of this. Suppose its pretty much like saying if you buy cheap you buy twice. I would determine if the garage are including all the parts I mention above and getting the head skimmed. Other than that I suppose you are at the mercy of placing trust in their workmanship.

Also, if you are due a timing belt kit anyway soon it would definately be a good idea to whack it on when headgasket is being done....this has the advantage of cutting down on labour costs.

L-M

I've never heard of the headgasket going on one of them. Do you know where the oil dipstick is? Take that out and tell me what colour is on the end of it.

homer90

Limerick man wrote: »

I've never heard of the headgasket going on one of them. Do you know where the oil dipstick is? Take that out and tell me what colour is on the end of it.

+1

What miles are on it OP ?

TechnoFreek

Hey guys, to answer some of your queries:

TechnoFreek

Hey guys, to answer some of your queries:

I didnt bring the car to the garage myself but I from what was relayed to me it sounded like a proper test was done to check it was indeed the head gasket.

The garage did say that the head gasket going was very rare for golfs alright

The garage itself is a long running established family business, should have plenty of experience. While it is a complicated job I would have faith in them to be honest (said nervously!)

The car has 100,000 miles so it is getting on.

I will check dipstick shortly and report back. By colour do you mean the colour of the oil or the actual dipstick?

barura

Pretty sure they want the colour of the oil.

L-M

+1

Take a pic if you can

TechnoFreek

Limerick man wrote: »

+1

Take a pic if you can

Right, I'll do that in next few mins

johndaman66

Limerick man wrote: »

I've never heard of the headgasket going on one of them. Do you know where the oil dipstick is? Take that out and tell me what colour is on the end of it.

Just to mention that if there is sludge on the dipstick it is a pretty sure and certain sign the Headgasket is gone but just because there is no sludge on the dipstick does not mean the Headgasket is not gone. I've had three cars that the Headgasket went on me over the years. Two of them the oil and coolant were mixing, was getting the usually expected sludge on the dipstick and mayo like substance under the oil cap and blowing out cold air through heater went turned to hot air

However, also had a Vectra that the HG went on. Everything looked hunkey dorey under the oil cap and no sludge on dipstick either, was also getting toasty warm air in the cabin as would expect. However, the HG had croaked it all the same. Was eventually loosing coolant at a phenomenal rate (slowly at first). It was seemingly being drawn into the combustion chamber and blown out the exhaust. It did also explain why the car seemed to be misfiring and engine knocking

TechnoFreek

Ok, took a few photos. I know it is a bit blurry but hopefully it's ok to interpret.

http://s631.photobucket.com/albums/uu39/TechnoFreek1/Car/

You can check them here. The car was only serviced a few weeks ago so it might mislead things.
Also to note is that coolant lasts approx a month or so before the warning light goes off in the car however coolant can still be seen in the plastic holder; albeit it's low down and under what looks like the sensor that tells the car that the coolant is low.

L-M

Aye, I didn't say it was an exact but it would give you a fairly good idea!

That creamy residue under the oil cap is easily caused by condensation, so I normally only judge by the dip stick and then investigate further.

L-M

TechnoFreek wrote: »

Ok, took a few photos. I know it is a bit blurry but hopefully it's ok to interpret.

http://s631.photobucket.com/albums/uu39/TechnoFreek1/Car/

You can check them here. The car was only serviced a few weeks ago so it might mislead things.
Also to note is that coolant lasts approx a month or so before the warning light goes off in the car however coolant can still be seen in the plastic holder; albeit it's low down and under what looks like the sensor that tells the car that the coolant is low.

Doesn't look gone to me anyway, what reason did they give, how do they know it's gone?

TechnoFreek

Would the oil have been changed as part of the service?

Regardless I checked the oil several times over the past few months and I never noticed any sort of sludge.

What's engine knocking out of curiosty as I do hear an occassional knock normally when the weight in the car is shifted when changing gears (if that makes sense). Always though it was coming from the back of the car though so might be unrelated

Think they said they had some soft of machine, pressure test type thing. Does that make sense?

L-M

TechnoFreek wrote: »

Would the oil have been changed as part of the service?

Regardless I checked the oil several times over the past few months and I never noticed any sort of sludge.

What's engine knocking out of curiosty as I do hear an occassional knock normally when the weight in the car is shifted when changing gears (if that makes sense). Always though it was coming from the back of the car though so might be unrelated

Think they said they had some soft of machine, pressure test type thing. Does that make sense?

I'm not a mechanic, so I just work off my own experience. A compression test? Bit more than a headgasket gone if the car was down in compression.

This is what I'd normally see when a head gasket goes, this colour on the stick as well.

http://loumms.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/img_0462.jpg

TechnoFreek

Right, well the oil well and oil has never been sludgy like that, defo

L-M

TechnoFreek wrote: »

Right, well the oil well and oil has never been sludgy like that, defo

I'll have to leave it to the more experience after that so.

Do you ever see any evidence of liquids underneath the car? I see you have a stone drive but it might be worth while putting down some cardboard underneath the car for the night and check it in the morning.

Do you have the car long?

How much coolant is it using?

supernoob

Hi,

in the middle of doing a head gasket job myself on a punto.

It started with various seemingly unconnected phenomena like the odd unusual sound and then the fan started to cut in a little early in traffic eventually it did not start right and then the engine was knocking and eventually it was obvious something was very wrong.

It's not my car and I didn't drive it over this period but I was in it and drove it often prior to that and the issues only very gradually appeared.

Once I heard the starting was clearly off-kilter I checked the oil and coolant level and the exhaust on startup and sure enough there was the beginning of white smoke and the coolant was down with no explanation.

It was also on a gravel drive so we never noticed the leak under the car which was from the water pump.

The seal was no longer intact so a little water was leaking and I assume pressure was also being lost in the cooling system.

I did a compression test on all the cylinders and didn't find a smoking gun but was sure the head gasket was gone after finding the leak around the water pump.
So after getting a gasket kit with bolts and stripping the head off the car the no.1 cylinder was shiny as a new penny and the others were as you would expect.

I then checked the gasket and head cylinder rims and found a fissure in the gasket and in the cylinder head itself.

The head looks like a spark burned a track in it so I guess it will have to be welded and skimmed etc. or else just replaced.

That's as far as I've gotten but looking back it all started with non-dramatic little indicators that something was up and the gravel drive did us no favours at all, so I'd definitely try and check if there's a leak.

To check you can just put two wheels up on a highish pavement somewhere that will give you space to get a little mirror or something under the engine and use a torch to have a look around.
Give yourself a few minutes to make sense of what you see and look for a leak on the bottom of one side/end of the engine.

The water pump would generally be running off a belt like the timing belt so it would usually be under a cover of some sort so you prob won't be able to see it directly but if there's signs of a leak near the timing belt or similar and it's not oil then it could well be the water pump.
It need only be the seal and not a failed pump to get you into trouble so mileage or time from last service is not necessarily a factor.

The pump didn't have a gasket, that liquid gasket stuff was used and it was used liberally but the drill holes for the mounting bolts cut through the gasket track making it very thin in places very close to where the seal failed.
no idea if that's the real cause or not, just an observation.

Incidentally the same thing ( water pump failure ) happened on a vw polo that i had before but I caught it on time.
That time there was also a fault with the thermostat which meant the fan was not kicking in when it should have, which was also contributing to the over heating.

I should mention that the leak was not obvious initially so it was trickling away for a while I would say and the pump itself is fine but it just got progressively worse and I guess it finally meant not enough pressure in the coolant system to stop the engine overheating which must be what cooked the head.

I'm not from Dublin so if anyone has contacts for shops which might do this kind of work up here I'd appreciate them.

Thanks.

supernoob

btw the mayo in the oil cap can be caused by frequent short journeys, what shocked me was the change in the oil on the dip stick.

It went very dark in fact burnt looking and was clearly full of suspended particles that also looked burnt like combustion by products of some kind.
It also had a pronounced smell which it never had before.
but of course by the time I checked all this I'd figured something was up and had had the sense to insist on the car not being driven, although the driver was less than impressed and went ahead and drove it to work and around anyway without telling me which resulted in the problem going critical in short order.

like i said not my car so not much I could do about it but i saw the difference in the space of a few days and it was shocking.

Well, you live and learn.

... and you jump on little things early from then on.

supernoob

sorry for all the posts !

can't see much in the dipstick pics, maybe you could get a piece of white plastic or maybe kitchen roll and then dip the oil and put the stick on top and maybe let the oil drip off onto it, then you can see the colour better and see if there are suspended particles in it.

I don't know if a warm or cold engine would tell you more when dipping as it's not the oil level that is the issue.
I imagine a cold engine would result in more particles etc. falling out of suspension and gathering in the sump, and also if cold engine oil smells of combustion / burning then it would probably stand out more.

If there's another car there that you can compare with that would be great too.