entitlements if i leave ireland

tonyheaney

HI if this is in the incorrect area could a kind mod please put it right.


Im thinking of moving to china next year. My wife is from china and i am Irish. we have 2 children and one is 3 and the other was born two weeks ago.

I heard if you move to Australia you loses all your entitlements like dole medical cared and stuff (back here in Ireland should you return)


could some one here confirm weather we would lose everything and loses our rights if myself my wife and kids moved to china and decided to move back say in 2 to 3 years????

krudler

you're only allowed have one child over there too, so choose wisely.

KeithM89_old

Moved from AH

tonyheaney

krudler wrote: »

you're only allowed have one child over there too, so choose wisely.

Actually you allowed as many as you want if the husband is Irish (or not Asian) and we have 2, we wont be chastised. My children are Irish born you see.

tenchi-fan

tonyheaney wrote: »

could some one here confirm weather we would lose everything and loses our rights if myself my wife and kids moved to china and decided to move back say in 2 to 3 years????

First, you'd most likely need to reapply for everything. No guarantee the benefits won't be cut for new applicants.

Second, it might be decided you are no longer habitually resident. See here.

tonyheaney

tenchi-fan wrote: »

First, you'd most likely need to reapply for everything. No guarantee the benefits won't be cut for new applicants.

Second, it might be decided you are no longer habitually resident. See here.

So what would happen if we diced to move to her home for say 3 years and if it didn't work out and we decided to return to Ireland for good, what would happen??

mrsbyrne

tonyheaney wrote: »

So what would happen if we diced to move to her home for say 3 years and if it didn't work out and we decided to return to Ireland for good, what would happen??

if you left Ireland for three years and decided to return and applied for JSA you would be subject to the habitual residence condition. i think another poster has given you a link to an explanation, but basically you would have to prove that Ireland is your permanent home now. this is trickier than you might think. your being an Irish born Irish citizen is not enough to guarantee you financial assistance. but here, who knows whats going to happen in this poor battered little country in 2 or 3 years.
see below from the link:
Returning Irish emigrants

EU rules prevent discrimination on nationality grounds in relation to social security, so it is not possible to exempt a particular category of Irish citizens (such as returning Irish emigrants) from the habitual residence condition (either in general or for Carer’s Allowance) without extending the same treatment to all EU nationals. However, the guidelines on determination of habitual residence address the issue of returning emigrants very specifically. The guidelines state: “A person who had previously been habitually resident in the State and who moved to live and work in another country and then resumes his/her long-term residence in the State may be regarded as being habitually resident immediately on his/her return to the State.”

When determining the main centre of interest for returning emigrants, Deciding Officers take account of:

The purpose of your return, for example, because your foreign residence permit has expired
Your stated intentions
Verified arrangements which you have made in regard to returning on a long-term basis, for example, transfer of financial accounts and any other assets, termination of residence-based entitlements in the other country, or assistance from Safe-Home or a similar programme to enable Irish emigrants to return permanently
Length and continuity of your previous residence in the State
Your record of employment or self employment in another state and
Whether you have maintained links with your previous residence and can be regarded as resuming your previous residence rather than starting a new period of residence.
Documentation

Regardless of what country you are coming from you may be asked to provide documentary evidence that shows your 'centre of interest' is now in Ireland. This evidence should show that you have moved to Ireland, you intend to settle in Ireland permanently and you do not intend to go back to live in the country you came from.

Where possible, you should provide the following documentary evidence:

Proof to show you have given up accommodation abroad
Proof that you have cancelled or applied to cancel any non-transferable benefits
Proof you have transferred or applied to transfer any transferable income
Proof to show measures you have put in place to open a bank account here
Proof to show you have a tenancy in your own name (in Ireland)
Proof of travel documents including, where relevant, excess baggage fees and removal/shipping receipts
All evidence presented will be authenticated, as far as is possible, by the relevant Officer. In some cases you may be asked to submit further documentary evidence. In certain cases, a Social Welfare Inspector may investigate your application.

tonyheaney

mrsbyrne wrote: »

if you left Ireland for three years and decided to return and applied for JSA you would be subject to the habitual residence condition. i think another poster has given you a link to an explanation, but basically you would have to prove that Ireland is your permanent home now. this is trickier than you might think. your being an Irish born Irish citizen is not enough to guarantee you financial assistance. but here, who knows whats going to happen in this poor battered little country in 2 or 3 years.
see below from the link:
Returning Irish emigrants

EU rules prevent discrimination on nationality grounds in relation to social security, so it is not possible to exempt a particular category of Irish citizens (such as returning Irish emigrants) from the habitual residence condition (either in general or for Carer’s Allowance) without extending the same treatment to all EU nationals. However, the guidelines on determination of habitual residence address the issue of returning emigrants very specifically. The guidelines state: “A person who had previously been habitually resident in the State and who moved to live and work in another country and then resumes his/her long-term residence in the State may be regarded as being habitually resident immediately on his/her return to the State.”

When determining the main centre of interest for returning emigrants, Deciding Officers take account of:

The purpose of your return, for example, because your foreign residence permit has expired
Your stated intentions
Verified arrangements which you have made in regard to returning on a long-term basis, for example, transfer of financial accounts and any other assets, termination of residence-based entitlements in the other country, or assistance from Safe-Home or a similar programme to enable Irish emigrants to return permanently
Length and continuity of your previous residence in the State
Your record of employment or self employment in another state and
Whether you have maintained links with your previous residence and can be regarded as resuming your previous residence rather than starting a new period of residence.
Documentation

Regardless of what country you are coming from you may be asked to provide documentary evidence that shows your 'centre of interest' is now in Ireland. This evidence should show that you have moved to Ireland, you intend to settle in Ireland permanently and you do not intend to go back to live in the country you came from.

Where possible, you should provide the following documentary evidence:

Proof to show you have given up accommodation abroad
Proof that you have cancelled or applied to cancel any non-transferable benefits
Proof you have transferred or applied to transfer any transferable income
Proof to show measures you have put in place to open a bank account here
Proof to show you have a tenancy in your own name (in Ireland)
Proof of travel documents including, where relevant, excess baggage fees and removal/shipping receipts
All evidence presented will be authenticated, as far as is possible, by the relevant Officer. In some cases you may be asked to submit further documentary evidence. In certain cases, a Social Welfare Inspector may investigate your application.

I went to the UK in September 1999 (i was single then) and i literally left on a whim no notice to the dole i was going. i returned in April 2005

i wasnt asked for anything but a proof of my new address. will i have to go trough the above if i go to china for a shorter peroid of time?

also i have to say it was easer to sign on after coming home from the UK after all that time then it was to transfer my limerick claim a year later to carlow. :rolleyes:

mrsbyrne

The whole SW landscape has changed drastically since 2005. Up until about 2 years ago it was accepted that people travelling between here and the British Isles fulfilled the HRC. Not anymore. And certainly not returning from China, were one half of the couple has family, and any children of the marriage have grandparents, cousins, aunts etc. and have possibly been attending school etc.
Going to China for less than 2 years might improve your prospects of a SW payment on return, but no guarantees.