New Car - Gearbox Failure - What are my rights?

AidenL

Three weeks ago , I bought an ex-demo 520d automatic, 3 months old, with 6000 miles on the clock.

The gearchange had been very jerky and not smooth and I had assumed that BMW autos were just not that great.

However, last Saturday night, the car went into limp mode, with 100 miles to travel home - the car and BMW Assist told me it was safe to drive home.

Monday, car was taken to the nearest dealer to be repaired. i had meetings to go to, but I wasn't given a replacement car for three hours, so I had to cancel the meetings.

The hire car has no bluetooth, so I had to stop to take calls and pull off the motorway through Tuesday and today.

The repairing dealer called me yesterday and told me that they had to top up the transmission oil. This suggested to me that the gearbox had sustained premature wear and tear on the trip home Saturday night.

Subsequently, they told me the diagnostic computer said that i need a whole new gearbox. This in a 4 month old car with 9000 miles up.

30 minutes after this, they called again and told me BMW Technical had said they could only fit new electronics to the car.

Now I have to say, I feel that this is BMW cutting corners - I'm high mileage , and if the gearbox fails after 3 years and 3 months, I'll be left high and dry.

BMW Customer Services won;t help, and say the issue is to be resolved between me and the supplying dealer, who isn't the repairing dealer.

I asked to return the car as its only three weeks since I got it, and to take my old car back, and cancel the finance deal, but the dealer tells me my old car has just been sold.

Consumer Association told me I should instruct them to stop the repairs and confirm that I want to reject the car.

Do I have to let the dealer repair the car? Do I have to give them three chances to fix it as in the UK? Or can I insist on a refund / replacement at this stage?

Any thoughts and opinions would be appreciated.

Once they fix it there is not problem, it sounds like a new transmission is not required. I don't really see the bluetooth in the replacement car or lack of it being remotely relevant to your query to be honest, it simply clutters your post.

pajo1981

RoverJames wrote: »

I don't really see the bluetooth in the replacement car or lack of it being remotely relevant to your query to be honest, it simply clutters your post.

Welcome to the world of the high flier...:D

Demand a new gearbox be fitted.

They offered to fit one, you accepted.

For them to backtrack is BS.

heate

This is the latest model?
Well the gearbox shouldn't have failed and most manufacturers use gearboxes designed and produced by ZF and others - The only difference is they all program them differently to suit the characteristics of proprietary engine design.

As regards your issue - your car is still under warranty and will have to be repaired by BMW and returned to as purchased condition.
Sometimes gearboxes go its not common but one failure per x amount of cars is an accepted failure rate.

Also as this is a demo - you've really no idea to what extent the car was driven during its run in and first few km's this may me BMW trying to wiggle out of paying.

I had a gearbox go on me out of warranty on a 7 series in Switzerland. BMW CH paid 80pc of the cost.

BMW Ireland should be paying 100pc of the cost and be providing you with a courtesy car. Bluetooth on that is not really part of the deal!

EPM

RoverJames wrote: »

I don't really see the bluetooth in the replacement car or lack of it being remotely relevant to your query to be honest, it simply clutters your post.

pajo1981 wrote: »

Welcome to the world of the high flier...:D

To be honest, a major failure on a €45k+ car with tiny mileage would have me looking for a courtesy car that was at least an equal of my own. If anything it's good customer service and more importantly appeasing the customers every whim in a situation like this may stop it going legal with the car beig rejected.

Henry Ford III

It's still under BMW warranty presumably? If so take it back from whence it came and ask them to fix it.

I'm not sure they are obliged to provide a replacement car in the interim, bluetooth or not..

Padraig Mor

If it's bmw approved used does it have a 30 day money back guarantee like some others?

AidenL

Basically, I lost business and time due to not having bluetooth in the car - even BMW themselves admit its a basic requirement in this day and age - remember they are selling cars with internet connectivity.

Its fair to assume that like for like would be provided as a replacement, a courtesy car is provided as part of the breakdown assistance - my point is, I should be able to stay in contact with the world when I'm on the move and not suffer personal financial loss while my car is being repaired due to no fault of my own, no?

The gearbox is a ZF, and yes, its the new F10 model.

I do believe the dealer was being honest with me in saying the gearbox needed replacement, but head office are trying to minimise cost and cut corners.

Anyway, do I have to accept the repair, or can I request a replacement or refund does anyone know?

AidenL

RoverJames wrote: »

Once they fix it there is not problem, it sounds like a new transmission is not required. I don't really see the bluetooth in the replacement car or lack of it being remotely relevant to your query to be honest, it simply clutters your post.

See my comment above re: lost business...

pajo1981 wrote: »

Welcome to the world of the high flier...:D

Demand a new gearbox be fitted.

They offered to fit one, you accepted.

For them to backtrack is BS.

I agree, and bluetooth is standard on a lot of small hatchbacks these days...

heate wrote: »

This is the latest model?
Well the gearbox shouldn't have failed and most manufacturers use gearboxes designed and produced by ZF and others - The only difference is they all program them differently to suit the characteristics of proprietary engine design.

As regards your issue - your car is still under warranty and will have to be repaired by BMW and returned to as purchased condition.
Sometimes gearboxes go its not common but one failure per x amount of cars is an accepted failure rate.

Also as this is a demo - you've really no idea to what extent the car was driven during its run in and first few km's this may me BMW trying to wiggle out of paying.

I had a gearbox go on me out of warranty on a 7 series in Switzerland. BMW CH paid 80pc of the cost.

BMW Ireland should be paying 100pc of the cost and be providing you with a courtesy car. Bluetooth on that is not really part of the deal!

I do have some regret now at buying a demo to be honest. Lesson learned.

EPM wrote: »

To be honest, a major failure on a €45k+ car with tiny mileage would have me looking for a courtesy car that was at least an equal of my own. If anything it's good customer service and more importantly appeasing the customers every whim in a situation like this may stop it going legal with the car beig rejected.

That was my point - the customer service response aggravated the situation as they had no interest.

Henry Ford III wrote: »

It's still under BMW warranty presumably? If so take it back from whence it came and ask them to fix it.

I'm not sure they are obliged to provide a replacement car in the interim, bluetooth or not..

The repairs being done, but as I said, I think its a partial stop gap repair, hoping they will be able to save the cost of a new box from ZF.

Padraig Mor wrote: »

If it's bmw approved used does it have a 30 day money back guarantee like some others?

Sadly, I don't think so - even if so, I think theres 1000km limit, and I do that in less than a week.

heate

A stop gap repair? Not good enough!
If and when the car is returned to you have a knowledgeable independent assessor have a look at it.
It's not just the used car warranty you're covered under the manufacturers warranty still stands.
Don't baby the car when its returned - run in the gearbox then give it a good hammering if its going to last past 200km it will take some hard shifts now and then with no damage. Chances are if its a problem box that hasn't been replaced by BMW it will go on you soon enough and then you will really have a case!
The gearbox should be smooth and the changes barely noticeable any less is not good enough in standard D mode.

AidenL

heate wrote: »

A stop gap repair? Not good enough!
If and when the car is returned to you have a knowledgeable independent assessor have a look at it.
It's not just the used car warranty you're covered under the manufacturers warranty still stands.
Don't baby the car when its returned - run in the gearbox then give it a good hammering if its going to last past 200km it will take some hard shifts now and then with no damage. Chances are if its a problem box that hasn't been replaced by BMW it will go on you soon enough and then you will really have a case!
The gearbox should be smooth and the changes barely noticeable any less is not good enough in standard D mode.

I agree - if it was going to fail, I'd prefer if it would happen sooner rather than later !

All they are changing at the moment is the Mechatronic unit.

Owen

To be fair, I wouldn't think it being a demo is the issue. If the gearbox was flaky, it would go demo or not. Don't feel at blame for buying a demo and saving a few quid.

heate

Its a good place to start for them - the unit controls the electronic selection of the gears ASFAIK.
If this was the problem there is an official BMW repair kit available (suspicious perhaps!)

See how it plays out - i found get angry with the dealer never worked but keeping on them does - I guess it's the same with everything I do.

Drummerboy08

EPM wrote: »

To be honest, a major failure on a €45k+ car with tiny mileage would have me looking for a courtesy car that was at least an equal of my own. If anything it's good customer service and more importantly appeasing the customers every whim in a situation like this may stop it going legal with the car beig rejected.

Just to point out - in my experience, like for like replacement cars are few and far between.

Most manufacturers have their roadside assistance through the AA in Ireland, who are partners with Enterprise. Usually the replacement car that is authorised is something along the lines of a Focus/Golf. Anything bigger and you're lucky.

As these are usually bog standard cars, Bluetooth is a very rare thing to find. Trust me, I know.

In relation to the issue with the car, I believe it is the right of the manufacturer to be given a chance to rectify the issue. If the problem persists time and time again, I think you may be in a position to return the car.

One thing you have to remember here is, your car is on finance. Unfortunately there will be a settlement figure involved here, it's not as easy as handing the car keys back.

I would let BMW repair the car, and see what happens from there.

AidenL

Owen wrote: »

To be fair, I wouldn't think it being a demo is the issue. If the gearbox was flaky, it would go demo or not. Don't feel at blame for buying a demo and saving a few quid.

Would this be the Owen I know??

heate wrote: »

Its a good place to start for them - the unit controls the electronic selection of the gears ASFAIK.
If this was the problem there is an official BMW repair kit available (suspicious perhaps!)

See how it plays out - i found get angry with the dealer never worked but keeping on them does - I guess it's the same with everything I do.

Ahhh, tell me more about the repair kit please??

No anger here, cool as a cucumber, I know persistence is more effective than agression.

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Just to point out - in my experience, like for like replacement cars are few and far between.

Most manufacturers have their roadside assistance through the AA in Ireland, who are partners with Enterprise. Usually the replacement car that is authorised is something along the lines of a Focus/Golf. Anything bigger and you're lucky.

As these are usually bog standard cars, Bluetooth is a very rare thing to find. Trust me, I know.

In relation to the issue with the car, I believe it is the right of the manufacturer to be given a chance to rectify the issue. If the problem persists time and time again, I think you may be in a position to return the car.

One thing you have to remember here is, your car is on finance. Unfortunately there will be a settlement figure involved here, it's not as easy as handing the car keys back.

I would let BMW repair the car, and see what happens from there.

Yes, its Enterprise and an Insignia I have from them.

And yes, I assume I'll have to accept the repair.

Owen

AidenL wrote: »

Would this be the Owen I know??

Hah! Sure is - was wondering were you my Donegal friend too. Your old MINI's up for sale again btw! PM on it's way to you.

heate

Repair Kit
http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=FW12&mospid=52407&btnr=24_1147&hg=24&fg=15

On the anger front - I eventually would lose it if somebody was preventing me from making money - but i normally make do and continue with life!

My point car dealers can drive you to distraction until you give up - simples its cheaper!

Suprised insignia doesn't have bluetooth - it's a pricy enough car

AidenL

Owen wrote: »

Hah! Sure is - was wondering were you my Donegal friend too. Your old MINI's up for sale again btw! PM on it's way to you.

Spent all my money on the POS car in this thread, not sure if I can take my old baby home again - though I'd love to ! Barry texted me too about it earlier, must investigate !

Owen

Aiden's level headed enough to get this resolved the right way guys. Trust me!

AidenL

heate wrote: »

Repair Kit
http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=FW12&mospid=52407&btnr=24_1147&hg=24&fg=15


On the anger front - I eventually would lose it if somebody was preventing me from making money - but i normally make do and continue with life!

My point car dealers can drive you to distraction until you give up - simples its cheaper!

Suprised insignia doesn't have bluetooth - it's a pricy enough car

Thanks ! I'm sure thats the bit they are fitting - lot less than a new box for sure

RandomAccess

What kind of gearbox is that. I couldn't find a clear explanation via google.

Is it a traditional auto or DSG or some kind of combination?

clank :o)

When rectifying a fault in any system with moving parts ie. a gearbox in a car, there is no point replacing a major component if it is ok and only a secondary component is faulty.

Why go to the trouble & expense of replacing parts that are almost new and perfectly servicable? also there is a risk that you may introduce a second problem into the system by removing the original gearbox / factory fitted part and i would imagine it may take longer to replace a gearbox than just a control unit.

The actual mechanical parts of the gearbox are probably quite robust and it sounds like only the electro-mechanical unit that controls the gearchanges has failed.

Most consumer goods with electronic components (like tvs/phones/pcs) that develop problems, usually fail in the first few days/weeks/months of use or operate for years without fault.

If the car is with a reputable main dealer i'd go with their advice as they have the experience and equipment to determine what the problem is.
It is not in their interest to have you come back again down the line as they probably want to retain you as a customer in the longer term.

hope it all works out for the best whatever happens

AidenL

RandomAccess wrote: »

What kind of gearbox is that. I couldn't find a clear explanation via google.

Is it a traditional auto or DSG or some kind of combination?

I believe they call it Steptronic and its a traditional auto - I could be mistaken....

clank ) wrote: »

When rectifying a fault in any system with moving parts ie. a gearbox in a car, there is no point replacing a major component if it is ok and only a secondary component is faulty.

Why go to the trouble & expense of replacing parts that are almost new and perfectly servicable? also there is a risk that you may introduce a second problem into the system by removing the original gearbox / factory fitted part and i would imagine it may take longer to replace a gearbox than just a control unit.

The actual mechanical parts of the gearbox are probably quite robust and it sounds like only the electro-mechanical unit that controls the gearchanges has failed.

Most consumer goods with electronic components (like tvs/phones/pcs) that develop problems, usually fail in the first few days/weeks/months of use or operate for years without fault.

If the car is with a reputable main dealer i'd go with their advice as they have the experience and equipment to determine what the problem is.
It is not in their interest to have you come back again down the line as they probably want to retain you as a customer in the longer term.

hope it all works out for the best whatever happens

Yes, I do agree, but I do actually have faith in the dealers integrity, however I did and do think that head office is trying to be cheap about things.

Either way, the sour taste this has left for me would mean I very much would be unlikely to buy another BMW again.

And thanks for the good wishes

mickdw

clank ) wrote: »

When rectifying a fault in any system with moving parts ie. a gearbox in a car, there is no point replacing a major component if it is ok and only a secondary component is faulty.

Why go to the trouble & expense of replacing parts that are almost new and perfectly servicable? also there is a risk that you may introduce a second problem into the system by removing the original gearbox / factory fitted part and i would imagine it may take longer to replace a gearbox than just a control unit.

The actual mechanical parts of the gearbox are probably quite robust and it sounds like only the electro-mechanical unit that controls the gearchanges has failed.

Most consumer goods with electronic components (like tvs/phones/pcs) that develop problems, usually fail in the first few days/weeks/months of use or operate for years without fault.

If the car is with a reputable main dealer i'd go with their advice as they have the experience and equipment to determine what the problem is.
It is not in their interest to have you come back again down the line as they probably want to retain you as a customer in the longer term.

hope it all works out for the best whatever happens

While I agree with what you say, the dealer did make the comment that they needed to top up transmission fluid and also that the gearbox might have been damaged due to low fluid levels. This would mean that it was very much the actual mechanics of the box itself that was f*cked

Stevie Dakota

You say that BMW are trying to be cheap about things but what makes you think this? The original diagnosis said a new gearbox was needed? I doubt any code says "Replace gearbox". BMW dealers are clueless when it comes to autoboxes, and would sooner replace the whole thing than repair it.

I think BMW Ireland probably looked at this more closely than you think, and may have a better understanding than the dealer of what the real problem is.

In anycase if this repair does not work then you have a full warranty and you will get it sorted.

All is all not what you expected I understand, but early adopters often iron out the bugs for everyone else.

R.O.R

We had a couple of failures on a June 2010 F10, but since I haven't heard from the driver in a while, I presume there haven't been any further issues.

Appears like it wasn't an isolated incident, but at least it means that BMW should have details on the issue.

OP - PM me if you want any further details. I'm a bit sketchy on what the actual issue is as I don't deal with the maintenance, I just took the initial calls from the driver as it was a pretty new car and he had my details. Pretty sure the first failure was in the snow last year as I think I was stranded at home when I took the call.

Tea 1000

I haven't driven an F10 auto, but if it's the same auto box that's in the E90 diesel, then it's a super-smooth box, one of the best out there, probably only beaten by the VAG DSG system, so if it's not super-smooth when it's returned bring it straight back and tell them you want a new box.
If in doubt, drive another one in the mean time to see what it should be like.
I'd say they will facilitate if it's still not right after the cheaper fix.

Padraig Mor

Tea 1000 wrote: »

I haven't driven an F10 auto, but if it's the same auto box that's in the E90 diesel, then it's a super-smooth box, one of the best out there, probably only beaten by the VAG DSG system, so if it's not super-smooth when it's returned bring it straight back and tell them you want a new box.
If in doubt, drive another one in the mean time to see what it should be like.
I'd say they will facilitate if it's still not right after the cheaper fix.

Nah, it's an 8 speed.

Tea 1000

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Nah, it's an 8 speed.

Is it as smooth and quick as the E90 one?

SouperComputer

If theres been fluid loss or any signs of slippage I would be looking for a complete new unit. Even a little slippage can do a lot of damage in short time.

falabo

I drive an Alfa and NOTHING EVER went worng ... BMW's are ****e.

R.O.R

falabo wrote: »

I drive an Alfa and NOTHING EVER went worng ... BMW's are ****e.

Obiously not a Selespeed so......

AidenL

SouperComputer wrote: »

If theres been fluid loss or any signs of slippage I would be looking for a complete new unit. Even a little slippage can do a lot of damage in short time.

That was my worry, but its down to wait and see now.

Got the car back, and to be fair, it seems to be driving well, dare I say it, even better than before, its as smooth as I expected it to be, but was disappointed previously that it wasn't, maybe a new software install too, so hope all is well that ends well.

I'll give the car a chance,m watch closely, and get back on to them if it shows any signs of misbehaviour.

Spose that is what the warranty is for, bar the pain in the ass of running back and forth - fingers crossed anyway

AidenL

Update - almost 5 months later, and 17,000 miles later, all is well - faith has been restored .

Just thought it was only fair to report the issue was solved, make up for my bitching at the time !