Smokey and shuddering

thenightrider

I have my own ideas at what could be wrong with my car but im going to ask any way as most guys in here will have a better idea then me

When i start my car from cold it takes a bit longer then normal to start and starts with a big clould of white skoke and it shutters on less i give it a bit of juice so a bit of a rev and the shutter go's away along with the smoke. But when im driveing slow or stoped at lights there is a bit of a shudder not much but it is there when driveing on the moterway were the car does 95 % of its driveing the car is fine lots of power etc.

Im thinking and hopeing its the fuel filter but what do others think its a diesel and i let it run very very low on fuel one day also there is a pin hole leak on the radiator and i have to keep topeing it up with water is that rad weld stuff any good or shold i try something else as that isnt good for the car have a hole in the rad.

Nissan doctor

thenightrider wrote: »

I have my own ideas at what could be wrong with my car but im going to ask any way as most guys in here will have a better idea then me

When i start my car from cold it takes a bit longer then normal to start and starts with a big clould of white skoke and it shutters on less i give it a bit of juice so a bit of a rev and the shutter go's away along with the smoke. But when im driveing slow or stoped at lights there is a bit of a shudder not much but it is there when driveing on the moterway were the car does 95 % of its driveing the car is fine lots of power etc.

Im thinking and hopeing its the fuel filter but what do others think its a diesel and i let it run very very low on fuel one day also there is a pin hole leak on the radiator and i have to keep topeing it up with water is that rad weld stuff any good or shold i try something else as that isnt good for the car have a hole in the rad.

Its your rad problems that would more likely point in the direction of your current problem I'd say. Does the temperature fluctuate at all under load?

Master and commander

Assuming the radiator leak is only small it should not be the cause. shudder like that at idle and slow driving suggest a cylinder is not firing. some things that may be dodgy include;
- faulty injector or
- faulty injector pump
- dirty diesel
- faulty valve leading to poor compression.

best way to pin down the problem is to get the fault code (if any), then start looking at more mechanical things.

is it a common rail engine or an old school set up. If its common rail its most likely to be a faulty injector or a fault in the electronics and electrics that control that injector

crap at the end of the tank can sometimes end up being suked up if the car is very low on fuel.

thenightrider

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Its your rad problems that would more likely point in the direction of your current problem I'd say. Does the temperature fluctuate at all under load?

No the temperature gauge has only gone half way up when it is at full heat and stays there i havent seen it get to hot.

thenightrider

Master and commander wrote: »

Assuming the radiator is only small it should not be the casue. shudder like that at idle and slow driving suggest a cylinder is not firing. some things that may be dodgy include;
- faulty injector or
- faulty injector pump
- dirty diesel
- faulty valve leading to poor compression.

best way to pin down the problem is to get the fault code (if any), then start looking at more mechanical things.

is it a common rail engine or an old school set up. If its common rail its most likely to be a faulty injector or a fault in the electronics and electrics that control that injector

It seems to have just started after i let it run down real low of diesel i did 70 miles after the fuel light came on i then bought cheap diesel from a no name diesel yard and have been going to the same place the last few times as its the cheapest around. Its and 00 mitsubishi with a renault engine.

bryaner

thenightrider wrote: »

It seems to have just started after i let it run down real low of diesel i did 70 miles after the fuel light came on i then bought cheap diesel from a no name diesel yard and have been going to the same place the last few times as its the cheapest around. Its and 00 mitsubishi with a renault engine.

Sorry for your troubles..

MugMugs

thenightrider wrote: »

Master and commander wrote: »

Assuming the radiator is only small it should not be the casue. shudder like that at idle and slow driving suggest a cylinder is not firing. some things that may be dodgy include;
- faulty injector or
- faulty injector pump
- dirty diesel
- faulty valve leading to poor compression.

best way to pin down the problem is to get the fault code (if any), then start looking at more mechanical things.

is it a common rail engine or an old school set up. If its common rail its most likely to be a faulty injector or a fault in the electronics and electrics that control that injector

It seems to have just started after i let it run down real low of diesel i did 70 miles after the fuel light came on i then bought cheap diesel from a no name diesel yard and have been going to the same place the last few times as its the cheapest around. Its and 00 mitsubishi with a renault engine.

Answered your own problem maybe? New filter and pray?

bryaner

Could be a number of things, but the first thing I'd be looking for is a bunged up egr valve..

Master and commander

probably an old school engine then. a faulty injector would be my first hunch. in this case do the following:

determine which cylinder is misfiring first. with the engine running(and presumably misfiring), place a rag over the no.1 injector and losen its pipe nut slightly - the sound should change slightly and it will run worse.(if no change, this injector is at fault.)

tighten up and move onto no2 injector and do the same and continue on to the other injectors in the same fashin, losening and then retightening the pipe nut.

You will know when you get to the faulty injector when then sound of the engine doesn't change.

when you find the faulty injector, remove it and bring it to a diesel service centre and they will check/reset/repair it.

It might be worth just removing all the injectors and have them checks or serviced. Its no harm to do this anyway a few times over the life of an engine. injectors put up with a lot and are critical to good running.

thenightrider

bryaner wrote: »

Sorry for your troubles..

The funny thing is i didnt cop it was a renault engine when buying the car and was staying away from looking at renault cars when buying it. :rolleyes:

Anan1

Are you sure the coolant is disappearing out through the radiator and not into a cylinder?

Master and commander

bryaner wrote: »

Could be a number of things, but the first thing I'd be looking for is a bunged up egr valve..

doubt it, EGR valve will result in all round poor running. a shuddering at low revs and idle is characteristic of a cylinder misfiring.

the startup with a cloud of white smoke also suggest the injector is leaking excess fuel into the cylinder at a very low pressure. If i was a betting man i'd put a few quid on an ijector with a jammed needle valve or damaged seat resulting in fuel leakage being the problem. a broken spring might also casue this but have never seen one.

you can get cleaning kits for injectors like this but it might be too expenisve for a once off. if your not experienced with diesel eqiupment, the fine points of the injectors and pumps are best left to the service shops.

NOTE: first things first, before anything, confirm that all the high pressure lines to the injectors are tightened properly and the pipes are not craked or leaking. i'd feel very silly if i brought my injectors to a service shop only to find a loose nut was the culprit.

safety: keep yer fingers away from fittings and injector pipes while the engine is running as you dont want an injection injury - they can turn very nasty.

bryaner

Master and commander wrote: »

doubt it, EGR valve will result in all round poor running. a shuddering at low revs and idle is characteristic of a cylinder misfiring.

the startup with a cloud of white smoke also suggest the injector is leaking excess fuel into the cylinder at a very low pressure. If i was a betting man i'd put a few quid on an ijector with a jammed needle valve or damaged seat resulting in fuel leakage being the problem. a broken spring might also casue this but have never seen one.

I had a mates laguna with a bunged egr valve that only caused probs at low rev's, but your right on the white smoke pointing to an injector unburnt fuel jobbie..

thenightrider

Anan1 wrote: »

Are you sure the coolant is disappearing out through the radiator and not into a cylinder?

Ya im sure i can see the leek it is at the bottom of the rad.

Master and commander

thenightrider wrote: »

Ya im sure i can see the leek it is at the bottom of the rad.

on that note, you mentioned the rad weld stuff. that is OK and works for very very small leaks like weeping and seepages at joints of pipes or within the rad.

Anything bigger than seepage/weeping it won't work at all.
If you are in the zone of coolant dripping/flowing from the rad you'll need to fix it up - the radweld is no good to you there. you might reduce the leakage rate by leaving the rad/tank cap off or loosened for the moment as there will be no pressure build up, although this would be damaging in the long term as it increases the risk of cavitation, particularly if you are using plain water with no antifreeze.

thenightrider

How good a job would spraying crab cleaner in to all the injector's by removeing them and powering them open with a 12 volt battery be or would there have to be a seal around the top of the injector and let it suck the cleaner in itself from something.

Master and commander

old school injectors are not actuated electrically. the presssure of the diesel coming in opens the valves. are yours electrical or old school mechanical? is there an electrical plug on the back of the injector? note - if you have an electronic common rail system, all what i said before about loosening nuts doesn't apply. it only works for a mechanical "old school" engine.

before you do any dismantling just confirm the diesel is clean and there is no water in it. drain water from the fuel filter and bleed the system through again and try a half hour run. if its still funny then go at the injectors.

carb cleaner wont do anything, you'll have to dismantle the injector and inspect the nozzle, needle and valve for damage and replace as needed. carb cleaner is for removing varish residue that comes from petrol, with diesel you won't get this.

You can confirm the injector is faulty by interchanging it with another adjacent injector, then going through the process of finding the injector as i explained earlier. Finding the same faulty injector in a different spot confirms the injector is wrong and rules out the possibility of a fault in the pump.

no easy fix i'm afraid. you be best to bring the injectors to a shop for a service as the burst pressure needs to be reset after dismantling. they will have better facilities for cleaning and inspecting anyway.

they are not that expensive, the price of testing and a new nozzle will cost about 40 per injector so 160 for a full set.