Irish supplier for lathe/milling/drilling machines

Barry Flannery

I've recently become interested in metal machining and home engineering and am looking to buy an introductory/hobby lathe/milling/drilling machine(s).

I have looked around and I'm quite interested and satisfied with the various ''3 in 1'' machines out there as they seem to fit my requirements quite well, in terms of space and size. I am a college student and expect to move several times in the coming years and so would like to be able to take my machine with me.

My problem is that it appears to be extremely difficult to buy any of these machines in Ireland. I've located a great supplier in the UK (ChesterUK) who then referred me to their Irish distributor.

The unit in question (see below) comes out at around €1500 to be delivered in the UK and this includes VAT in the UK and all additional expenses.

The problem? The price in Ireland as quoted by their distributor (Central Technology Supplies in Dublin) is about €2200 to get it to my door in Galway.

I cannot see any justifiable reason for such a huge price difference. Is this just the rip off Republic we live in or should I be looking for alternate suppliers? If the latter is the case can anybody suggest some good places to get tools in Ireland or at least delivered to Ireland?

I've more or less decided on the following unit. It is quite cost effective (at least in the UK)
ChesterUK Centurion 800

If for some reason you're fundamentally opposed to the above machine, perhaps you could suggest an alternative 3 in 1 machine or else somewhere I could get a comparable lathe/milling machine/drill press separately all for under
€2000 MAX.

I want to get the best bang for my buck and I understand there are various trade-offs by choosing smaller hobbyist machines and that they will be perceived as ''toys'' by the more experienced machinists out there. I'm just looking to learn machining so that's the type of machinery I'm looking for. I don't want to end up not liking machining and be stuck with a 6 ton milling machine sitting in my garage forever. Naturally if I get hooked I will look to upgrade to more advanced dedicated machines in the future.

To summarize after all that ranting, can somebody in Ireland please tell me where the best place to buy machine tools is? By best I don't simply mean cheapest, I mean best service, good cost effective supplies of accessories like drill bits...etc.

Thanks,

Barry

CatFromHue

I can't really help you to be honest. I assume you're studying engineering and if so your college will have a workshop. Going down and having a chat with the head of the workshop about your problem might be a good idea.

mattjack

There was/is a company called Sureweld in the Lucan area and as a far as I know they use to supply reconditioned machines and also machines to schools..might be worth having a look..no idea about prices,costs etc though.

Barry Flannery

I forgot to mention, I'm actually doing an Applied Physics degree. The degree I'm doing has a lot of theory and not a lot of practical work or doesn't necessarily deal with the practicalities of making things in the way for example, a mechanical engineering degree would. I just want to learn and make thing myself. I will look into local schools/colleges and ask around when college starts back up but I think I probably located the best (solely because it's the only one) supplier and will just have to bite the bullet and dish out a lot of money!

Turbulent Bill

Barry Flannery wrote: »

I forgot to mention, I'm actually doing an Applied Physics degree. The degree I'm doing has a lot of theory and not a lot of practical work or doesn't necessarily deal with the practicalities of making things in the way for example, a mechanical engineering degree would. I just want to learn and make thing myself. I will look into local schools/colleges and ask around when college starts back up but I think I probably located the best (solely because it's the only one) supplier and will just have to bite the bullet and dish out a lot of money!

Honestly, I'd follow CatFromHue's advice and check out your college's workshop facilities when college restarts. Lots of mech eng students have no interest in machining, so the workshop might be chuffed if you show an interest. Get approval from the dept. or workshop head and they might show you the ropes, allow shadowing of the technicians etc.

Apart from the upfront cost of buying the equipment, the servicing and material costs could be huge relative to your usage. Much better to learn about the skills/capabilities first then decide whether to invest.

Barry Flannery

Thanks for that. I'm in the process of building a small propane fired furnace to melt down scrap aluminium (I have a good supply of the stuff for free). In effect I'll be able to create a lot of the raw materials to machine purely by casting them myself.

Obviously I will have to buy consumables like drill bits and the occasional raw metal but overall I don't anticipate it being a huge issue.

I was wondering about mechanical engineering in fact. I cannot find anything explicit about it as regards NUI Galway but I would assume that the engineering department is fitted out with a battery of lathes/milling machines? Of course I could be mistaken and they simple have one or two large CNC machines nowadays?

I haven't heard about many engineering students actually making anything or machining anything? I think they mainly focus on the theory of the machines as opposed to actually using them in person and the CAD side of things.

I do know that my Physics department has a moderate sized machine shop to assist the researchers in making tools/experiments but the staff has been seriously cut down in recent years and I don't recall them having a huge number of machines when I went in there before (although it's certainly worth investigating further).

Also your idea of potentially trying to shadow an experienced technician is excellent. I'm sure that I would be able to figure things out on my own, an experienced teacher would drastically ''short circuit'' the learning process.

Krieg

You have probably already looked into this but make sure you price all the consumables before you make the big purchase, tooling can be very expensive. Try and get your hands on a caulfields catalogue, Im not suggesting you purchase from them but at least it will give you an idea of pricing.

Could be an issue with power? Please someone correct me on this but, the wall socket only has 230v but the centurion lists 240v, would there be an issue there?
All cutting machines I've worked with are kitted with much larger power cables than your common 3 pin connector, might not be an issue since the centurion is for hobbyists.

Barry Flannery wrote: »

I was wondering about mechanical engineering in fact. I cannot find anything explicit about it as regards NUI Galway but I would assume that the engineering department is fitted out with a battery of lathes/milling machines? Of course I could be mistaken and they simple have one or two large CNC machines nowadays?

Not sure about NUI but GMIT have a well kitted workshop, multiple Lathes and Mills and CNC. Im sure they would be open to questions as well


If you do place the order, please report back as to how you got on. I'm hoping of getting something similar in the future.

Barry Flannery

I have already got in touch with the Mechanical Engineering department in NUI and am awaiting a response. I figured that contacting their ''technical staff'' would be most appropriate.

I was a little disheartened to hear from an engineering student that there is very little emphasis on the actually physical machining in NUI and as I suspected, the vast, vast majority of their work is in the design aspect of things and CAD.

I only just considered GMIT and you're right, it does have excellent Engineering facilities. My engineering friend also mentioned that they have far superior facilities to NUIG. However, he was unsure if this will still be the case in the brand new NUIG engineering building (perhaps it was kitted out with new machines?).

In any event I am going to send on an inquiry to GMIT also as it is only 10 minutes over the road from my house so it is easy to drop in (likewise for NUIG).

I will report back with any developments. There is very little information out there in the Irish context... It makes me wish I lived in the US where such machines can be bought very easily and are affordable.

Barry

P.S. Regarding the voltages, 220/230/240V are all the same. As you probably can guess it fluctuates between these so there is no discernible difference. Also the power to the Centurion is quite low, it's a 3/4HP motor I think which is only ~550W (1 HP = ~750W). There should be no issues with power with such a small machine.

You are however right though for larger machines with very high power motors (10kW+), standard domestic power is not generally optimized for this and any motor of that class would likely be 3-phase to have an acceptable efficiency.

davey101

I looked into buying one of these a number of years ago while living in the UK and at the time there was a large second hand market for such equipment in the modelmaking community i would see ads regularly in local papers but cant remember which ones sorry. The only thing that i found was going to be a problem was that you were really limited to what you could machine on these smaller machines (in terms of dimensions), especially regarding the lathe. And as the chucks had very little in terms of what diameters they could facilitate for what i wanted to be able to do the cost became crazy as a number of extras were required.
But if you know what you want to use it for, is it for general mucking about? if so you may be very limited to what you can do.
A suggestion would be to identify what you really want to use it for and then get one that suits this purpose, at least then you can get using it straight away.
You would really need to at least speak to a technician in your colleges workshop to find out what would suit you, once you get the unit and do some research you will have no problem using it.

Best of luck and let us know what you decide to get.

Barry Flannery

davey101 wrote: »

I looked into buying one of these a number of years ago while living in the UK and at the time there was a large second hand market for such equipment in the modelmaking community i would see ads regularly in local papers but cant remember which ones sorry. The only thing that i found was going to be a problem was that you were really limited to what you could machine on these smaller machines (in terms of dimensions), especially regarding the lathe. And as the chucks had very little in terms of what diameters they could facilitate for what i wanted to be able to do the cost became crazy as a number of extras were required.
But if you know what you want to use it for, is it for general mucking about? if so you may be very limited to what you can do.
A suggestion would be to identify what you really want to use it for and then get one that suits this purpose, at least then you can get using it straight away.
You would really need to at least speak to a technician in your colleges workshop to find out what would suit you, once you get the unit and do some research you will have no problem using it.

Best of luck and let us know what you decide to get.

I deliberately decided to avoid going down the second hand route. I'm aware of the huge market out there for used machines but its a very risky bet for a novice. The amount of knowledge/experience one would need to know to accurately assess a machine's wear and "milage" in my opinion is far higher than simply buying a new one.

I cannot stress enough that I'm still very much in the provisional planning phase. I still have a lot more work to do, and, books in machining to get through. Speaking very generally however, there appears to be a concensus out there that a good lathe is both an excellent investment and critical. In that respect I would prefer to have just a quality lathe as opposed to mediocre lathe and milling /drilling unit.

As regards what I hope to do with at least a lathe is a lot of cylinder work and piston designs. My big goal is to create a stirling cryocooler to liquefy nitrogen from the air. I know that this is highly ambitious and probably daft. Still, however outlandish and eccentric I am, I think that a mastery of "hot and cold" would be both an excellent project and achievement.

The amount of "accessory knowledge" to be gained in the process would be immense. By accessory knowledge I simply mean things learned on the way to achieving the overall goal.

Speaking a little more generally now, I would hope to gain the skills and capability for relatively rapid home prototyping of ideas/inventions/projects. It's my ambition to eventually start my own company in the future and I think being "handy" will stand to me.

I'll stop ranting now as typing this on my phone is tedious to say the least!! Thanks for all the replies and guidance so far. I will keep you updated as I go along.

Barry

ZRelation

Barry Flannery wrote: »

I have already got in touch with the Mechanical Engineering department in NUI and am awaiting a response. I figured that contacting their ''technical staff'' would be most appropriate.

I was a little disheartened to hear from an engineering student that there is very little emphasis on the actually physical machining in NUI and as I suspected, the vast, vast majority of their work is in the design aspect of things and CAD.

I only just considered GMIT and you're right, it does have excellent Engineering facilities. My engineering friend also mentioned that they have far superior facilities to NUIG. However, he was unsure if this will still be the case in the brand new NUIG engineering building (perhaps it was kitted out with new machines?).

In any event I am going to send on an inquiry to GMIT also as it is only 10 minutes over the road from my house so it is easy to drop in (likewise for NUIG).

I will report back with any developments. There is very little information out there in the Irish context... It makes me wish I lived in the US where such machines can be bought very easily and are affordable.

Barry

P.S. Regarding the voltages, 220/230/240V are all the same. As you probably can guess it fluctuates between these so there is no discernible difference. Also the power to the Centurion is quite low, it's a 3/4HP motor I think which is only ~550W (1 HP = ~750W). There should be no issues with power with such a small machine.

You are however right though for larger machines with very high power motors (10kW+), standard domestic power is not generally optimized for this and any motor of that class would likely be 3-phase to have an acceptable efficiency.

If your own dept. have a few machines your best bet would be to try and get up to speed on them....even if they aren't too well resourced.

Other than that GMIT are far more suited to what you are looking for than NUIG, who, like you say have very little focus on machining. (There's no new machining equipment in the new engineering building in NUIG AFAIK, and I wouldn't count on them bringing in many new lathes/mills in the near future...don't think they have much of anything in terms of CNC either). I'm not so sure that the GMIT lads will be to happy to see you coming if you're not a student there...but worth a shot anyways I guess.

Another choice would be to offer to do some work for free for a local machine-shop...e.g. Caragh Precision in Galway, they might let you play with their toys then:)

CatFromHue

I might be best then to do a workshop course before you buy the lathe. As far as I know DIT do such courses and after doing a quick search on the GMIT course the below has come up.

http://www.gmit.ie/lifelong-learning/lifelong-learning-programmes/engineering/technician-certificate-in-mechanical-engineering.html

For 600 euro it might be no harm to contact these guys and see how much workshop work they do.

Gremlin

Barry,

I'm also looking for a milling machine at the moment. I also checked with the company Chester partner with in ireland and got similarly ridiculous prices. However I'm sure they will still send a machione here if you are prepared to pay for shipping. I was quoted 150stg by two other companies for shipping to Ireland. Look at Axminster tools in the UK. They were one of the ones happy to ship to me for 139 quid

Even with the shipping factored in buying from the UK still comes in a hell of a lot cheaper than buying from rip-off irish companies.

I'm relatively new in that I've had a lathe for a couple of years but would still consider myself a beginner. I have read that combined lathe/mills are not the best as they are trying to do two jobs and often do neither well.

If you know people (in college) who know their machines, why not ask them to go with you to look at some second hand kit? I know its a minefield to the beginner, but if you have someone with you who knows their stuff, then you could at least get much more bang for your buck.

Good luck.

Gremlin

Barry Flannery wrote: »

I think that a mastery of "hot and cold" would be both an excellent project and achievement.

Barry, I know this is O/T but when I read this quote I immediately thought of the story of the student who was asked in an exam "Is hell exothermic or endothermic?" If you haven't read it already, see here, you'll enjoy it!

Barry Flannery

Gremlin,

I had considered trying to get it shipped to Ireland and even phrased this in my inquiry to ChesterUK who gave me a pretty blunt reply saying ''you need to buy from our supplier in Dublin'' or something to that effect.

The prices being quoted by the Dublin supplier seem excessive. Considering that it's the same as me paying €400 on a ferry (and maybe €60 for fuel) from Dublin to Hollyhead and driving to Chester in person and picking it up in a van.

I still have yet to receive a reply from either GMIT or NUIG. Will update when (if) I get one.

I have gone off the idea of a 3 in 1 mill lately and thing I'd be much better off getting a good dedicated lathe and a good dedicated milling machine. I still have a lot more to look into and definitely want to talk to people first.

As regards the second hand idea, unless I was able to get a ''heavy duty'' machine for the price of a ''beginner'' one I don't think that I will bother. Although I'm not ruling anything out yet.

Barry

P.S. I've seen that hell thing before, it's very clever!

Gremlin

Barry,

Just found out, it is 140euro (driver and car) for a day trip to holyhead, drive down to chester buy your machine and drive back. Assuming you have a big enough car to carry your purchases.

mattjack

Barry Flannery wrote: »

I've recently become interested in metal machining and home engineering and am looking to buy an introductory/hobby lathe/milling/drilling machine(s).

I have looked around and I'm quite interested and satisfied with the various ''3 in 1'' machines out there as they seem to fit my requirements quite well, in terms of space and size. I am a college student and expect to move several times in the coming years and so would like to be able to take my machine with me.

My problem is that it appears to be extremely difficult to buy any of these machines in Ireland. I've located a great supplier in the UK (ChesterUK) who then referred me to their Irish distributor.

The unit in question (see below) comes out at around €1500 to be delivered in the UK and this includes VAT in the UK and all additional expenses.

The problem? The price in Ireland as quoted by their distributor (Central Technology Supplies in Dublin) is about €2200 to get it to my door in Galway.

I cannot see any justifiable reason for such a huge price difference. Is this just the rip off Republic we live in or should I be looking for alternate suppliers? If the latter is the case can anybody suggest some good places to get tools in Ireland or at least delivered to Ireland?

I've more or less decided on the following unit. It is quite cost effective (at least in the UK)
ChesterUK Centurion 800

If for some reason you're fundamentally opposed to the above machine, perhaps you could suggest an alternative 3 in 1 machine or else somewhere I could get a comparable lathe/milling machine/drill press separately all for under
€2000 MAX.

I want to get the best bang for my buck and I understand there are various trade-offs by choosing smaller hobbyist machines and that they will be perceived as ''toys'' by the more experienced machinists out there. I'm just looking to learn machining so that's the type of machinery I'm looking for. I don't want to end up not liking machining and be stuck with a 6 ton milling machine sitting in my garage forever. Naturally if I get hooked I will look to upgrade to more advanced dedicated machines in the future.

To summarize after all that ranting, can somebody in Ireland please tell me where the best place to buy machine tools is? By best I don't simply mean cheapest, I mean best service, good cost effective supplies of accessories like drill bits...etc.

Thanks,

Barry

did you try Sureweld/Surepower in Lucan..?

Barry Flannery

Still nothing back from either NUIG/GMIT but I found another interesting UK supplier that seem to offer some very good stuff www.warco.co.uk

I've sent an enquiry regarding postage/shipping estimates and will report back when I get an answer.

I was looking at the following units:

WM 250 Lathe
Major Milling Drilling Machine

If you estimate ~£200 shipping the total of the two machines together would be around €2400. In my opinion and when compared with the ChesterUK machine mentioned above this is a far, far better deal considering they are much more versatile and dedicated units.

I forgot to add that this lathe is much more capable at threading (critical for my needs) and offers much better range of speeds and a lower minimum rpm.

Gremlin

Barry,

Will you let me know when you get a reply from Warco please.

Thanks.

Gremlin

Barry,
Just one thing I noticed regarding the warco 'major' mill. It has a round column. From my research I understand that this can lead to vertical alignment problems. I've been told to avoid these by a number of people on different forums. The dovetail column is apparantly the one these heads swear by.

Like this one.

Gremlin

Some News Today: I got onto Central Technology and highlighted the price difference. They got back to me very quickly with a fantastic price which equates to the UK price converted to euro, I am getting it delivered to my door for that price. They explained that chester uk had this on special offer and hadn't told them. WHen they brought this to chester uk attention they agreed to match the price.

So it does pay to nag. They were genuinely concerned about the price difference and actually acted on that concern.

I'm now highly impressed by their service and will do business with them again.

Barry Flannery

I though it was about time for an update. I've since purchased 2 machines from Warco and had them delivered without any issues or difficulty.

All that I have left to do now is order some tooling (which I plan to do sometime next week) and I will have everything that I need to get going.

You can see some very quick snapshots of the setup right now. You will also see that the whole place is a complete mess as I'm still moving things around and organizing.

Nonetheless, I hope some of you might be interested!

CatFromHue

Looks good Barry, what have you planned to use them for again?

Gen.Zhukov

Barry Flannery wrote: »

All that I have left to do now is order some tooling (which I plan to do sometime next week) and I will have everything that I need to get going.

These guys have a good range

http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/acatalog/Clarke_Tools___Equipment.html