Late fees on overdue rent.......

ButtersSuki

Hi,

Does anyone know the legal status on charging late fees on overdue rent? i.e rent is due on the first of the month and is always paid late - usually on the 14th after overdue notice has been served. It's annoying to say the least, and costs me money too as I have to pay the mortgage well before the 14th.

And please don't scream greedy landlord at me - I truly have the tenants from hell!

Do you have it in your lease that you can charge administration fees?
Our lease states that we can charge €30 administration fees for every demand letter written. I'm not sure what the legalities of this are if it is not written into the lease.

the_syco

Are you able to issue warnings for late payments, and then move onto a eviction notice for frequent late rent?

ButtersSuki

Hi,

thanks for your replies.

yes, built into lease but never had to enact it before and was just wondering was that something that would be thrown out in the event of going before PRTB (I am registered) - which I suspect will happen in this case.

mebird

I don't think there is anything in the RTA 2004 to worry a tenant that pays their rent, albeit late, every month.

This has to be one of those 'whats fair and reasonable?'

If it is in your lease that an admin / penalty charge will apply for every demand that has to be sent, I would think it perfectly reasonable to charge a tenant that is persistently in arrears.

In other words, once or twice, let it slide but if they are regularly in arrears and you are forced to contact them I think you are perfectly justified.

ButtersSuki

Thnaks again.

I've tried to be fair and they just take the proverbial. They've paid on time once in 23 months! I reminded them of the clause at last renewal and they said "yeah, whatever" basically so going to enforce upon leaving by deducting from their deposit.

the_syco

ButtersSuki wrote: »

so going to enforce upon leaving by deducting from their deposit.

Don't think you can do that. I'd say they'll just bring you to court over it, as they seem "the type" who would.

ButtersSuki

the_syco wrote: »

Don't think you can do that. I'd say they'll just bring you to court over it, as they seem "the type" who would.

To be honest I just want them to leave. They can take me to court if they like, I have a list as long as my arm of the breaches of their lease agreement - late payment is the least of them.

Aprilmay

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Thnaks again.

I've tried to be fair and they just take the proverbial. They've paid on time once in 23 months! I reminded them of the clause at last renewal and they said "yeah, whatever" basically so going to enforce upon leaving by deducting from their deposit.

I wouldn't have renewed their lease after the first 12 months and in fairness 2 weeks over every month is not acceptable at all if your trying to pay your bills.You can ask them to leave for non payment of rent an agreement is an agreement once or twice if that had told you in advance that they would be be late but anything else is just taking the ****.

mebird

Aprilmay wrote: »

I wouldn't have renewed their lease after the first 12 months

He has no choice unless he is selling the place or moving in himself.

Aprilmay wrote: »

You can ask them to leave for non payment of rent an agreement is an agreement once or twice if that had told you in advance that they would be be late but anything else is just taking the ****.

He can't ask them to leave for not paying the rent. They are paying the rent....just late.

mebird

ButtersSuki wrote: »

To be honest I just want them to leave. They can take me to court if they like, I have a list as long as my arm of the breaches of their lease agreement - late payment is the least of them.

Sounds good. Do it dude. Just make sure that you issue a 14 day letter each time the rent is late.

mebird

mebird wrote: »

He has no choice unless he is selling the place or moving in himself.

What? Of course you don't have to renew a lease. That's why it's a fixed period lease.

he can't ask them to leave for not paying the rent. They are paying the rent....just late.

Please stop giving incorrect I information.

OP I would just not renew their lease. Is it up at the end of next month? I would hazard a guess they won't pay the last month though.

mebird

Deleted User wrote: »

What? Of course you don't have to renew a lease. That's why it's a fixed period lease.

Please stop giving incorrect I information.

OP I would just not renew their lease. Is it up at the end of next month? I would hazard a guess they won't pay the last month though.

You know nothing.. sigh... here we go again.....

After 6 months, the tenant is entitled to a further 3 1/2 years tenancy either as a fixed term or Part 4 and the landlord may only recover possession under certain circumstances.

Educate yourself by visiting the Threshold website or if you feel like confusing yourself further, the PRTB website.

I am done here, if you persist with your uninformed posts someone else can jump in.

mdebets

But why would you throw them out?
With them, you know at least that they are paying rent every month (albeit late). You don't know if you'll get new tenants soon. The apartment might remain empty for a few months. You might have to drop the rent for new tenants. Or you might get a tenant who pays the first few months, then stops and destroys your apartment.
This all would cost you more than a letter every month to remind the current tenants to pay.

ButtersSuki

mebird wrote: »

Sounds good. Do it dude. Just make sure that you issue a 14 day letter each time the rent is late.

have done that every single time...........which is why they pay on the 14th........it's just coincidence of course............

ButtersSuki

mdebets wrote: »

But why would you throw them out?
With them, you know at least that they are paying rent every month (albeit late). You don't know if you'll get new tenants soon. The apartment might remain empty for a few months. You might have to drop the rent for new tenants. Or you might get a tenant who pays the first few months, then stops and destroys your apartment.
This all would cost you more than a letter every month to remind the current tenants to pay.

So far, they have, amongst other things:

• received more than one letter from the management company about noise
• rarely if ever cleaned the house
• damaged the walls, including pulling a curtain rail from the wall (incl. some chunks of plaster etc.)
• broken a toilet
• cost me over €800 in plumbers fees for various "blockages" - do you really want the detail on this one?
• installed a ridiculously oversized Satellite dish on the balcony WITHOUT MY PERMISSION
• moved at least one person in who is not paying any rent. The neighbours have told me about this but i can't prove it
• olso on the above, one time I called over to ivestigate another of their "problems" and there was 6 toothbrushes in one of the bathrooms - it's a 2 bed apartment on a 2 person lease! When I questioned this I was told they were all the tenants, even though at least one of them was a child's toothbrush
• are unbelievably abusive (verbally)
• never, ever stop complaining
• will ring me anytime morning, noon, day or night if they have a problem but I can never get them when the rent is due/overdue
• knew a pipe under the sink was leaking and let it continue to leak for 6 weeks (their words descibing the time it wa leasking, not mine) before they told me about it to the point where there was so much water damage the entire unit had to be replaced
• I dropped the rent during the second tenancy on the condition that it was piad on time etc. - the above is how I was thanked

And there's more, I just can't be bothered going into it as it makes me angry even thinking about it. I feel like the landlord in Pacific Heights*!

*80's movie.

BostonB

If they break they're obligations as tenant, you give them the proper notice. End of story.

The problem is you've been letting all these issues slide, so they are simply ignoring you. Its that simple.

ButtersSuki

BostonB wrote: »

If they break they're obligations as tenant, you give them the proper notice. End of story.

The problem is you've been letting all these issues slide, so they are simply ignoring you. Its that simple.

Have you ever tried to evict someone? Do you know how difficult it is and the steps you have to go through? I'm assuming not given the apparent tone of your post.

Re. letting things slide - I haven't, I've dealt with each one as they occurred, the vast majority of which are recent.

You're right, it's all my fault, the tenants have no part to play in all of this..........

BostonB

Don't shoot the messenger.

This has been going on 23 months and you've not issued termination notice and you have a choice of things other than late paying. Simply not looking after the house is enough to evict them.

Keep the property in good order
Inform the landlord if repairs are needed
Avoid causing damage or nuisance
Inform the landlord of who is living in the property

I don't really agree with the idea of letting things slide if you are getting the money. Eventually bad tenants will stiff you for a few months rent and it will cost you thousands to get the place cleaned, repaired and ready for the next tenant. Not to mention it will take years off your life with the stress of dealing with people like this. Lifes too short. Nip it in the bud, and get some decent tenants in. It may cost you a bit of money now, and a bit of grief in the short term but it will be well worth it on the long run.

I don't really agree with the idea that you might struggle to find someone else to rent the place unless its in some daft location to begin with.

mebird

mebird wrote: »

You know nothing.. sigh... here we go again.....

After 6 months, the tenant is entitled to a further 3 1/2 years tenancy either as a fixed term or Part 4 and the landlord may only recover possession under certain circumstances.

Educate yourself by visiting the Threshold website or if you feel like confusing yourself further, the PRTB website.

I am done here, if you persist with your uninformed posts someone else can jump in.

Failing to meet the obligations of the tenancy is a perfectly legitimate reason for not renewing the lease. Failing to pay the rent on time as per the agreement is failing to meet the obligations of the tenancy.

mebird

Deleted User wrote: »

Failing to meet the obligations of the tenancy is a perfectly legitimate reason for not renewing the lease. Failing to pay the rent on time as per the agreement is failing to meet the obligations of the tenancy.

I apologise for my condescending remark that began my last post. It was rude and made in the heat of rebuttal.

The Residential Tenancies Act is quite clear that if the rent is late, you must give the tenants 14 days, on foot of a formal notice, to make good.

They could in fact pay late rent on a regular basis, but if they pay within 14 days of the formal notice they are in the clear and you cannot evict them on this basis.

The OP knows this is, and so do obviously, the tenants.

Anyway, I leave the thread on better terms I hope.

the_syco

Increase their rent. Evict when they don't pay it :pac:

BostonB

You can evict them for other reasons than the rent though.