Rules that aren't implemented consistently aren't neccesary

Mountainlad

You know what I'm talking about. How often was the rule of a 65' being awarded when a keeper stepped outside the square for a puckout awarded? And when they changed it to a throw in on the 21'? It made the times when they were awarded drive people crazy (I'm not even from Clare but I was lived in 2008 when Tipp won Munster in the u21s on account of that incident).

Last year we had the fiasco of the change to the handpass rules in Gaelic Football, driving everybody mad. Commentators suggested that eventually it would fade out after the initial manic period of enforcing it...and low and behold, they were right.

Now the main reason I'm writing is this is about the most stupid rule in the game of hurling...not being allowed drop your hurley. In the recent Dublin v Waterford minor game, Waterford captain Gavin O'Brien was awarded a yellow card for venting his frustrations at th ref having been penalised. Now this weekend in the Waterford Senior Hurling Championship, there was at least four instances of it happening in one of the games I was at, and not once was it penalised.

It's a stupid rule in that it's very difficult to enforce and interpret for certain whether a hurley has been dropped or knocked out of the hand. As long as a hurley isn't thrown I can't see what's wrong with releasing it from your hand. Point is though, is it only adds to the frustration when it is sometimes enforced and other times (possibly even in the same game) not.

Your views on rules like these?

Damokc

the dropping the hurley rule is more blatant a foul when the ball is thrown up with the left hand,hurley dropped and then handpassed with the right hand.

i think in hurling a lot more things are left go because of the speed its played at. its hard to spot everything at realtime speed. say for over carrying, which happens a lot in hurling. i play hurling and 4 steps is not enough to gather a ball,break a tackle and strike the ball all while there might be a 2nd player hanging off you. in these cases refs tend to show leniency.

One rule i think should take a look at is the being back 13yards or whatever the distance is for frees.it would speed up football a lot if a free could be taken quickly to a player close by and just get on with it.same for hurling,this would help with sidelines too.

bruschi

well to be honest Mountainlad, just because there arent frees often given, maybe that means it doesnt happen very often? It happened in that Waterford game, and was rightly penalised. It happens in other games, and is usually penalised.

If the rule didnt exist, it would mean you'd have players doing it the whole time. I think it would make things worse to be honest, best off that you cant drop the hurl to make a football handpass.

Mountainlad

bruschi wrote: »

well to be honest Mountainlad, just because there arent frees often given, maybe that means it doesnt happen very often? It happened in that Waterford game, and was rightly penalised. It happens in other games, and is usually penalised.

If the rule didnt exist, it would mean you'd have players doing it the whole time. I think it would make things worse to be honest, best off that you cant drop the hurl to make a football handpass.

Nah I've seen it a lot now. There are a lot more games in a year then the ten they show on tv.

The keeper stepping out of the square taking puckouts happened all the time.

And I mean that particular rule, if a lad is hanging on to your hurley and slowing you from releasing a pass, letting go of the hurley makes sense. Does the rule allow for accidental dropping? I mean it can happen like.

Also I agreed about the steps rule in a way, but then if we moved it up to 6 or 7, we'd be allowing 10 or 11 steps being taken.

bruschi

Mountainlad wrote: »

Nah I've seen it a lot now. There are a lot more games in a year then the ten they show on tv.

The keeper stepping out of the square taking puckouts happened all the time.

And I mean that particular rule, if a lad is hanging on to your hurley and slowing you from releasing a pass, letting go of the hurley makes sense. Does the rule allow for accidental dropping? I mean it can happen like.

Also I agreed about the steps rule in a way, but then if we moved it up to 6 or 7, we'd be allowing 10 or 11 steps being taken.

I've seen more than ten games this year myself too. dont know what difference that makes or why you infer it :rolleyes:

And I dont understand you. If a lad is hanging onto the hurl its a free. And if you intend on handpassing, how is someone holding your hurl, going to slow you down?

so whats your solution to the keeper stepping out? get rid of that rule?

Mountainlad

bruschi wrote: »

I've seen more than ten games this year myself too. dont know what difference that makes or why you infer it :rolleyes:

And I dont understand you. If a lad is hanging onto the hurl its a free. And if you intend on handpassing, how is someone holding your hurl, going to slow you down?

so whats your solution to the keeper stepping out? get rid of that rule?

The free is not always given, in fact a lot of the time not given. It can, because you can't run as fast so somebody can get in your way. Can I just ask what rationale is there for not dropping the hurley. Your response 'Everyone would be doing it' doesn't make sense to me. I mean they wouldn't like, and also what difference does it make?

The rule is NEVER implemented, ever, so why is it there? Only an accident waiting to happen, just like in 2008.

bruschi

Mountainlad wrote: »

The free is not always given, in fact a lot of the time not given. It can, because you can't run as fast so somebody can get in your way. Can I just ask what rationale is there for not dropping the hurley. Your response 'Everyone would be doing it' doesn't make sense to me. I mean they wouldn't like, and also what difference does it make?

The rule is NEVER implemented, ever, so why is it there? Only an accident waiting to happen, just like in 2008.

It was removed because of the problems it caused. its an easy way for players to get rid of the ball and has no skill in it. it would mean there would be lots more handpasses, and there are plenty of them as they are. its fine the way it is.

I asked what was your solution, not if it is implimented. keepers generally dont take much of an advantage, and any time i tis implimented the keeper has already had a warning and is talking more than a step outside the box.

Mountainlad

bruschi wrote: »

It was removed because of the problems it caused. its an easy way for players to get rid of the ball and has no skill in it. it would mean there would be lots more handpasses, and there are plenty of them as they are. its fine the way it is.

I asked what was your solution, not if it is implimented. keepers generally dont take much of an advantage, and any time i tis implimented the keeper has already had a warning and is talking more than a step outside the box.

How so? I'm not saying throw it up with one hand and hanpassing it with the other. You can't take advantage of the rules doing it like you have limited time to get rid of the ball before being penalised for overcarrying so I don't see the problem. What O'Brien was penalised for was putting the ball on his hurley and then switching his hurley into his other hand, and handpassing with his 'bad' hand. What made it an offence was that as he switched the hurley to the opposite hand he accidentally dropped it. Like I don't know about you, but that seems a very harsh rule to me.

Yeah I don't think it's actually an issue, it's not like they were coming out yards outside there square, at most maybe one yard. Stupid rule again. I;m not looking to solutions for faulty rules here, I'm looking for the possible abolition of rules that are unneccesary, and referee must concur because of there inconsistent implementation of these rules.

Damokc

you cant drop your hurley to hand pass the ball. its simple. whether its an accident or not its still a foul. if you trip a player by a tangling of legs its an accident but its still a free against you. players are thought from under 8s that you can not drop your hurley. its probably there to instil it into players minds that your hurley should never leave your person intentionally so this would have it in the back of your head that you shouldn't throw your hurley. In the games i've played so far this year and thats over 20 i dont think i've seen anyone throwing a hurley. as for swapping hands, its not a free. he droped it by accident while switching the hurl from one hand to the other,just bad luck on him.

Mountainlad

Damokc wrote: »

you cant drop your hurley to hand pass the ball. its simple. whether its an accident or not its still a foul. if you trip a player by a tangling of legs its an accident but its still a free against you. players are thought from under 8s that you can not drop your hurley. its probably there to instil it into players minds that your hurley should never leave your person intentionally so this would have it in the back of your head that you shouldn't throw your hurley. In the games i've played so far this year and thats over 20 i dont think i've seen anyone throwing a hurley. as for swapping hands, its not a free. he droped it by accident while switching the hurl from one hand to the other,just bad luck on him.

Tell me something I don't know

I'm not disputing the rules I'm aware of what they are (bothing switching hands and dropping the hurley), just don't think that dropping the hurley is a rule that is needed, especially when it is over-looked. And that's not having a go at referees, they have enough to worry about without having to try and interpret how that hurley came out of your mans hand and whether it should be a free and what way.

I totally understand accidental trips being frees. Dropping the hurley however neither causes harm to an opponent nor does it give you any unfair advantage, or certainly not from what I can see.

Also, I have played hurling with the last 8 years for a club, and only became aware of not being allowed drop the hurley in 2009 after the Waterford v Kilkenny, when Molumphy kicked a ball to the net having dropped his hurley, though the goal was not disallowed.

I'm not claiming any team I support or play for has been done here or anything, I'm just saying that it would make refs jobs easier if we didn't have rules like these that don't make sense.

No offence meant to ye, but the attempts to justify these rules have been poor (not due to a lack of knowledge or intelligence on ye're part please understand, just that it is unclear of what benefit this rule serves). It is clear the unfair advatage gained by holding someones hurley or jersey, dropping the hurley though is just not the same.

bruschi

Mountainlad wrote: »

Tell me something I don't know

I'm not disputing the rules I'm aware of what they are (bothing switching hands and dropping the hurley), just don't think that dropping the hurley is a rule that is needed, especially when it is over-looked. And that's not having a go at referees, they have enough to worry about without having to try and interpret how that hurley came out of your mans hand and whether it should be a free and what way.

I totally understand accidental trips being frees. Dropping the hurley however neither causes harm to an opponent nor does it give you any unfair advantage, or certainly not from what I can see.

Also, I have played hurling with the last 8 years for a club, and only became aware of not being allowed drop the hurley in 2009 after the Waterford v Kilkenny, when Molumphy kicked a ball to the net having dropped his hurley, though the goal was not disallowed.

I'm not claiming any team I support or play for has been done here or anything, I'm just saying that it would make refs jobs easier if we didn't have rules like these that don't make sense.

No offence meant to ye, but the attempts to justify these rules have been poor (not due to a lack of knowledge or intelligence on ye're part please understand, just that it is unclear of what benefit this rule serves). It is clear the unfair advatage gained by holding someones hurley or jersey, dropping the hurley though is just not the same.

your attempts to change a rule are as bad. I dont see the need for it. Its fine the way it is. you werent around obviously when it was originally changed. you could handpass the ball into the goal as well. it was crap, and changing the handpass into the goal, and dropping the hurl to make a football handpass was the same.

if you want the rule changed, you'd want to come up with better arguments. its you who thinks it should be changed, and I dont see any need for it other than you saw it happen in a game at the weekend where the ref didnt blow for it.

and I seriously cant believe someone who has played for 8 years has never seen it before. sure you are taught it when you are a chap not to drop your hurl.

players generally keep the hurl in their hand the whole time. it rarely happens they drop them. why the need to change a rule just for the sake of it? doesnt make sense to me.

Old_-_School

One rule I've never seen implemented is that a closed fist is to be used for punching the ball over the bar. Most punched points are actually with an open palm which should be disallowed but never are.

premierstone

Mountainlad wrote: »

Yeah I don't think it's actually an issue, it's not like they were coming out yards outside there square, at most maybe one yard. Stupid rule again. .

But the point is Mountain if there was no rule there at all what would stop the keeper from coming all the way to the 45 to take a puck out, and I really dont think the breaching of this rule is as prevelant as you are making out, Iv seen very few clear cut cases of it been broken.

bruschi

Old_-_School wrote: »

One rule I've never seen implemented is that a closed fist is to be used for punching the ball over the bar. Most punched points are actually with an open palm which should be disallowed but never are.

that is certainly one alright. Wexford played Offaly in a league game last year and had a point dissallowed for such an offence, which would be ok had the ref not allowed a similar score be counted for Offaly in the second half. either clamp down on it in full, or not at all. its very rare to see a ref disallow a open palmed point, but yet it is a very common occurance.