Food Chain Information for Wild Deer

DR6.5

Saw this on the Dept of Agriculture

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/foodchaininformation/

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/foodsafetyconsumerissues/controlsonmeat/foodchaininformation/LargeWildGameFCIdoc24aug11240811.pdf

Has to be filled out an presented with every animal you hand in to the gamedealer.

dr6.5

virminhunter

looks like I'm gonna have to pay out €100 somewhere down the line to become a "trained hunter":rolleyes: hopefully not.

nice to see something being done to stop poaching all the same.

moby30

Nice to see something being done all the same. Will be interesting to see what we have to do or pay out to become "trained" though.

welsummer

My dad trained me 40 years ago and did a right good job of it , but he must of forgot to give me a Certificate Number: before he passed on to the happy hunting grounds in the sky.

seoirse1980

Just rang someone in the dept. He's gonna ring me in the morning and give me some information about it.

Will post what he says later tomorrow

DR6.5

http://www.wilddeerireland.com/news.html#101

a bit more info

tfox

"training" sounds like more bureaucracy and a revenue gathering excercise !!
But hey if it seperates the genuines from the poachers I'm for it !! But I'm sure the poachers will just sell direct on the blackmarket :mad:

From what I can gather does it means that a "trained person" wont have to include the head and vixcera with the carcase when bringing it to the dealer ?

I do think that the time and money spent getting something like this in motion and the extra work for some civil servants, could be better spent on the NPWS and guards towards policing poaching more ?!

seoirse1980

I personally think that we need a bit more professionalism brought into deer hunting here in Ireland. If you have a look at

http://www.bestpracticeguides.org.uk/carcass_venisonSupply.aspx

You'll see what the guidelines are in Scotland. I personally think that Deer hunters here, including myself have a way to go to reach the standard of our European and UK neighbors.

There needs to be a standard set, whether the HCAP in it's current form is the way to go I'm not sure?

If you're going to give venison to friends or family, I'd like to think that the people who shot it and the people who are to receive it would like to be assured and satisfied that it is disease free and fit for consumption.

We come from a country that has a reputation for high standards in the meat industry.

I personally am in favor of a more professional approach to deer hunting, carcass handling, butchering deer, keeping the cold chain up and hygienic distribution of it to friends and family.

Who knows, for those that want to. In time you may be able to sell to friends and people within a local radius to you.

Seoirse

daithi55

nice to see them doing something but its not much
a trained person can still lamp a deer if he wants and bring it in

the best way to stop poaching in my opinion is
nightly patrols by either guards or wildlife rangers

or maybe start something like a community alert
but a hunting version where certain members in a gun club
could do some sort of a course and can observe
goings on in there area and report it to appropiate authorities
and action can be taken from it

J. Ramone

Looking at the form, has anyone noticed that the department staff don't seem to understand the difference between breed and species?

The trained hunter signing off must have been in the area the animal was shot. Chances are that if you have a dishonest game dealer, they could collude with the hunter on the details so that the dealer can sign off as a trained hunter. Also a team of poachers could have a "trained hunter" in their outfit who could sign off on everything. Maybe I'm just being overly cynical but I suppose it's better than nothing. I'm not looking forward to coughing up again though.

browning 12 bore

hey there lads ive been doing some research on this contacting the department of agriculture and so on as far as i can get so far this is very new to them some of them didnt know what i was on about but i did get answers there is no one trained in ireland to look at suspichios acting deer or sists of any kind and they even said to me that the hcap will not be reconised either but there will be courses in the near future so that we know what to look for on a sick deer, and if we have to fill out theses forms we all have to put down no on the form cause no one is trained yet
deer shooting lads getting serious bout time too

kieran1141

browning 12 bore wrote: »

hey there lads ive been doing some research on this contacting the department of agriculture and so on as far as i can get so far this is very new to them some of them didnt know what i was on about but i did get answers there is no one trained in ireland to look at suspichios acting deer or sists of any kind and they even said to me that the hcap will not be reconised either but there will be courses in the near future so that we know what to look for on a sick deer, and if we have to fill out theses forms we all have to put down no on the form cause no one is trained yet
deer shooting lads getting serious bout time too

+1 on this, HCAP will not count, will be a separate course on knowing how to spot infection on animal and unless you have someone to sign off form that is qualified you can not sell to a dealer, this is what i have been told. maybe this is bu**s***.

rmnrgn

I know that this information is new to us all but has anyone any idea what they are asking for under "carcase identification no." ?
As its to be completed by the hunter what number does it refer to? Are they planning to introduce a tag system?

kieran1141

J. Ramone wrote: »

Looking at the form, has anyone noticed that the department staff don't seem to understand the difference between breed and species?

The trained hunter signing off must have been in the area the animal was shot. Chances are that if you have a dishonest game dealer, they could collude with the hunter on the details so that the dealer can sign off as a trained hunter. Also a team of poachers could have a "trained hunter" in their outfit who could sign off on everything. Maybe I'm just being overly cynical but I suppose it's better than nothing. I'm not looking forward to coughing up again though.

j. ramone, 1 thing you can be sure of, is we are getting screwed somewhere along the line for cash, and as you say anyone thats poaching will be organized and have someone to sign off the forms, friend of mine was watching a stag last night shot rang out and stag fell over, he stood up and two lads spotted him they walked up to him and asked had he a problem as they had the number of his van, told him his life would not be worth living if he said a word, told me he has a wife and kids and does not need any trouble, said its a sign of the hard times. this was 8.20 in day light.

seoirse1980

I was on to someone in the dept myself. He said that they would not be overseeing the courses but the course would have to be approved by them.

They had hoped that the courses would be up and running for the 1st of September but that they ran into difficulties with the various deer groups slowing things down.

I fear a hcap 2 may be in the pipe lines

seoirse1980

rmnrgn wrote: »

I know that this information is new to us all but has anyone any idea what they are asking for under "carcase identification no." ?
As its to be completed by the hunter what number does it refer to? Are they planning to introduce a tag system?

I assume the "carcase identification number" refers to the id number that is assigned to each deer by the game dealer.

browning 12 bore

rmnrgn wrote: »

I know that this information is new to us all but has anyone any idea what they are asking for under "carcase identification no." ?
As its to be completed by the hunter what number does it refer to? Are they planning to introduce a tag system?

the carcases id number is the one the hunter put into the animal at the game dealer house so that the animal can be linked back to you where ever you shoot

Mauser 308

Great, the ink is not even dry on my HCAP cert and here we go again.

Mountainy Jack

I dont know how this took the authorities by surprise given this is driven by an EC regulation which has been around since 2004. The dsc1 has included a trained hunter assessment since 2006. I also know of a game dealer last season who was using those forms.

arrowloopboy

I see on the deer alliance's web site that from the 1st of Sept ,anyone selling venison to a game dealers has to fill out a FCI document,this has been set up by the Dept of Agriculture,havn't time to read it all,but it looks like the first step.

www.deeralliance.ie

browning 12 bore

arrowloopboy wrote: »

I see on the deer alliance's web site that from the 1st of Sept ,anyone selling venison to a game dealers has to fill out a FCI document,this has been set up by the Dept of Agriculture,havn't time to read it all,but it looks like the first step.

www.deeralliance.ie

i was looking at that as well and apaerntly we all have to get trained to gut and blead out the deer corectly and what to look for abnormal behavier out in the field and signs of tb and anyother disease, and i also heard that the HCAP will not be accepted in the game dealer i will be finding out more today
getting serous now lads

fish slapped

Can't find it on the site???

AH! it in the Blog not the main site... my bad.

No6

Its only if you are selling deer to game dealers you will have to get the training whenever it becomes available, if you are shooting and processing the deer yourself you don't have to so far!!

Glensman

browning 12 bore wrote: »

i was looking at that as well and apaerntly we all have to get trained to gut and blead out the deer corectly and what to look for abnormal behavier out in the field and signs of tb and anyother disease, and i also heard that the HCAP will not be accepted in the game dealer i will be finding out more today
getting serous now lads

In the 6 counties you have to do a DSC course (deer stalking cert).

It was run by BASC at crazy prices (although to you it might not seem that bad). Now SACS also offer it and it is meant to be a 1 day course (£100). It incorporates the HCAP stuff you do as well as meat hygene and identifying disease etc.

browning 12 bore

seoirse1980 wrote: »

I was on to someone in the dept myself. He said that they would not be overseeing the courses but the course would have to be approved by them.

They had hoped that the courses would be up and running for the 1st of September but that they ran into difficulties with the various deer groups slowing things down.

I fear a hcap 2 may be in the pipe lines

here we are fellas i was told today that any one bringing deer to dealers has to fill out theses forms but must tick no in the box so your saying that you shot the deer but you are not trained to check it over or look out for disease anyway guys it does like hcap 2 on the way id say

all the best out there tomorrow there lads becareful of your surroundings and your back stop lads
good hunting

browning 12 bore

hi there lads was on to the department and they have said when you are bringing any deer to the dealers just fill it out as normal but instead of filling out one form per deer you can put all the your deer on one form as long as there from the same location

seoirse1980

I wonder whether this new form will make the deer returns at the end of the season more accurate? If the npws audit some hunter I'd numbers with the game dealers. It may make folk put the true number of deer shot on the form. ??

arrowloopboy

seoirse1980 wrote: »

I wonder whether this new form will make the deer returns at the end of the season more accurate? If the npws audit some hunter I'd numbers with the game dealers. It may make folk put the true number of deer shot on the form. ??

I'd imagine its the gamedealers that would want to be worried about an Audit.

Tackleberrywho

Lads, you always had to bring the "pluck" to the dealers.
This Cert will mean if TRAINED you will not have to as you can certify that animal was disease free.

There is no real change just more form filling and more money to do course in food hygiene.
If you were ever in a Slaughter house the same is normally done by a vet when animals are slaughtered.

Yee only need worry if you go to a game dealer

Grizzly 45

I bet I am the only person who is not the least bit surprised by any of this here!:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Hondata92

Scanned through the ISD mag earlier and the NARGC will be running the courses.

Details were ment to be posted on their site on Nov 1st but nothing yet.

Those who do the course and qualify will recieve a City and Guilds cert.

Will be interesting to see whats involved (exact details) and how much it costs

Grizzly 45

Best check with London City and guilds do they [1] recognise this course and [2] is NARGC or whoever employed by, qualified to teach this to their standards AND most importantly AWARD the qualification??

There ia alot of this Bul sht going on over here for awhile with this since the 1990s.
FAS was a major culprit on this!!!:mad:
I did a welding and sheet metal working course with them back then[1997].FAS claimed that they were teaching this to C&G standards.[maybe,maybe not],and could award the C&G standard.
When London C&G got wind of it ,they absolutely refused FAS anything to do with it and there was no way they would award a C&G qualification to anyone. FAS response was[from an instructor] "sure its the Celtic Tiger,you'll get a welding job no trouble!"":rolleyes:

Sure,good job I wasnt looking for a job in a nuke power plant as a welder or in a chemical plant with that attitude.:mad::mad:
Sooo,I am now in a position of being able to weld,arc,gas,TIG ,MIG,and cut steel,but am unable to PROVE it with paperwork...Like being able to drive a car with no liscense to prove you are competant to do so..

So I'm just putting this as a heads up to you out there.I'd hate to see people get stung with another "course" with City& Guilds after it that looks genuine and its award isnt worth the ink on it.:(
Check authenticy FIRST!!! Issue Cheque after confirmation.

Tackleberrywho

Why C&G's and not Fetac L5 or 6?

Why need an English accredition for an Irish course?