€345m saved by tackling welfare fraud

the groutch

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/government-saves-345m-in-welfare-fraud-crackdown-518375.html

Almost €345m was saved in the first seven months of this year as part of the latest drive to crack down on welfare fraud, the Government stated today.

More than 350,000 individual social welfare claims were reviewed during that timeframe.

According to the Department of Social Protection, more than €101m was saved by a review of One Parent Family payments, €84m was saved from Pension claims and just more than €49m from Illness payments.

Savings in Jobseekers claims were more than 46m, with around 126,000 claims reviewed, while there was almost €19m saved in Child Benefit payments.

Social Protection Minister Joan Burton has welcomed the savings. She is due to outline a new comprehensive fraud control plan in September.

shows you how messed up the system was that so many people were getting away with such fraud, and there's likely alot more of the same to come.

Godge

the groutch wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/government-saves-345m-in-welfare-fraud-crackdown-518375.html




shows you how messed up the system was that so many people were getting away with such fraud, and there's likely alot more of the same to come.

Apart from linking to a news report, and an unsubstantiated comment that there is likely a lot more to come, why do we need another thread on social welfare?

carm

Godge wrote: »

Apart from linking to a news report, and an unsubstantiated comment that there is likely a lot more to come, why do we need another thread on social welfare?

Apart from the fact it's an important bit of news for the future of Social Welfare in this country, it highlights the complete failure of the Department of Social Welfare (Protection) under the Fianna Fail government. Anyone going to lose their jobs over this then? No. Didn't think so.

Why weren't they doing this in 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008 on such a grand scale when every tom, eduwa and pawel entered the country to ride on Ireland's great giveaway of welfare?

cyberhog

carm wrote: »

Apart from the fact it's an important bit of news for the future of Social Welfare in this country, it highlights the complete failure of the Department of Social Welfare (Protection) under the Fianna Fail government. Anyone going to lose their jobs over this then? No. Didn't think so.

Why weren't they doing this in 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008 on such a grand scale when every tom, eduwa and pawel entered the country to ride on Ireland's great giveaway of welfare?

I don't see any dramatic improvement yet over 2008 savings.

Almost €476 million in Social Welfare payments was saved through fraud control measures in 2008

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Press/PressReleases/2009/Pages/pr210109.aspx

Almost €345m was saved in the first seven months of this year

I would think that puts Fine Gael on course to make around the same savings as 2008.

amacachi

They're on-track to save about 100million more.

Anecdotally it seems they're wising up a little bit. They've started checking Facebook profiles which is a simple and effective idea. I think there's a need for balance between privacy and all that but when people are putting things like that in the public domain it's about time the government noticed.

rasper

wonder how they calculate €345 million saving, it should be that people will pay back the €345 they claimed , but we know this wont be the case , the €345 is probably coming from the money that they wont be taken for in the future, how much will be paid back???
This is from the department who dont bother checking data with the department of Justice about who is inside and yet claiming to be "actively seeking and available for work", system is a joke .

regi

I think I'd also like to see some statistics on numbers of people charged and convicted of social welfare fraud offences.

Padraig Mor

regi wrote: »

I think I'd also like to see some statistics on numbers of people charged and convicted of social welfare fraud offences.

Have you a postage stamp to write it down on?!

amacachi

rasper wrote: »

wonder how they calculate €345 million saving, it should be that people will pay back the €345 they claimed , but we know this wont be the case , the €345 is probably coming from the money that they wont be taken for in the future, how much will be paid back???
This is from the department who dont bother checking data with the department of Justice about who is inside and yet claiming to be "actively seeking and available for work", system is a joke .

Depends on circumstances. If someone is still receiving a payment or receiving one later on the amount they were overpaid can be reclaimed gradually with a reduction in their weekly payments.

R P McMurphy

The other aspect of this are the numbers of active PPS No's in the country. I think it is nearly seven and a half million. Where did all of the extra numbers come from? and who is using them and for what purpose

AlekSmart

R P McMurphy wrote: »

The other aspect of this are the numbers of active PPS No's in the country. I think it is nearly seven and a half million. Where did all of the extra numbers come from? and who is using them and for what purpose

For sure RPMcM....A truly amazing statistic revealed to shocked populace some weeks back....and not a word since...nothing.....Silence.

Even allowing to the most liberal of non-conspiracy theories...the existance of this amount of excess PPS numbers should surely have merited much more comment.....?

Delancey

While the savings are to be applauded I can't help but feel such articles fuel the unrealistic and misguided belief that Social Welfare is the root cause of the county's financial woes and thus foster a feeling almost of hatred towards the unemployed.

Dr Galen

AlekSmart wrote: »

For sure RPMcM....A truly amazing statistic revealed to shocked populace some weeks back....and not a word since...nothing.....Silence.

Even allowing to the most liberal of non-conspiracy theories...the existance of this amount of excess PPS numbers should surely have merited much more comment.....?

I'd have no ideas of numbers but I'd personally know of lots of people who don't live here, but will do some work here from time to time, for Irish companies and thus as they need to get paid, require an Irish PPS number.

I wouldn't suggest that this type of person would account for all the excess, but seeing as numbers would have built up over a number of years, it could well explain quite a few.

Icepick

There were reasons some people still voted FF.

woodoo

AlekSmart wrote: »

For sure RPMcM....A truly amazing statistic revealed to shocked populace some weeks back....and not a word since...nothing.....Silence.

Even allowing to the most liberal of non-conspiracy theories...the existance of this amount of excess PPS numbers should surely have merited much more comment.....?

Anyone claiming any sort of benefit should be given a PPS card with their photo, fingerprint and signature on it. This card should be produced when collecting their dole, applying for a medical card, OPFP, fuel allowance etc.

AlekSmart

Dr Galen wrote: »

I'd have no ideas of numbers but I'd personally know of lots of people who don't live here, but will do some work here from time to time, for Irish companies and thus as they need to get paid, require an Irish PPS number.

I wouldn't suggest that this type of person would account for all the excess, but seeing as numbers would have built up over a number of years, it could well explain quite a few.

I agree Doc,but the sheer scale of the mismatch is what gets my antennae all a quiver....

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0714/1224300713608.html

From this....

The population of the State was 4.58 million, there were 7.2 million PPS numbers, a difference of 2.62 million.

This transcends all notions of a "bit of an oul sums problem Ted" explaination......It raises serious issues as to the vulnerability of our Social Welfare payments system to Major and Ongoing Fraud...systemic even..?

Dr Galen

Do we know anything about how, why or when they "retire" a PPS number?

For example, if I get one, does it remain active for ever and ever?

barney4001

I HOPE THEY PUT AS MUCH EFFORT INTO WHITE COLLAR CRIME:mad::D

Count Dooku

woodoo wrote: »

Anyone claiming any sort of benefit should be given a PPS card with their photo, fingerprint and signature on it. This card should be produced when collecting their dole, applying for a medical card, OPFP, fuel allowance etc.

CPSU wont allow to use it as they did it in GNIB
Fingerprint system that cost €20m lying idle

BKtje

AlekSmart wrote: »

This transcends all notions of a "bit of an oul sums problem Ted" explaination......It raises serious issues as to the vulnerability of our Social Welfare payments system to Major and Ongoing Fraud...systemic even..?

I emmigrated two years ago but still have my pps number so that a record exists of my tax paid etc. I fail to see the problem

supremenovice

Did anyone here the official response from the National Organisation for the Unemployed?
"I feel it is important for them to provide a good service to people, good advice, good information. If they got the service right they could really yield greater savings that way and would be a more constructive way of doing it" - Brid O' Brien, spokeswoman, 9' o clock news 29/08/11.

Absolutely disgraceful. She sidestepped the fact that fraudsters are criminals and gave some half assed response about improving the service instead.
That implies that if people got 'good advice, good information' then we wouldnt have half as many scam artists.
Not to mention 'greater savings' - how she thinks that a better service to people receiving social welfare will result in more than half a billion in savings this year is beyond me.
IMO, shes afraid to alienate thousands of people that shes supposed to represent, even if they are breaking the law.

dashboard_hula

With regard to PPS numbers, I was advised a while ago that anyone doing any kind of personal business in Ireland that had to go through a State Agency required a PPS number - the example I was given was that of a non-Irish citizen inheriting from an Irish citizen, they would require a PPS number in order to fill out the paperwork etc.
I would also imagine that anyone who has emigrated has an idle PPS number here, any child (or adult) who's died has had one generated, along with people who may live in the Republic and work in the North, or vice versa. If you take any possible reason why someone would need a PPS number into account, then the shortfall could be made up quite quickly.
BTW - I am actually in favour of the photo/fingerprint ID system and the merging of all state benefits into that system - I have yet to see any argument in terms of financial cost or privacy/civil liberties that convinces me otherwise. SW fraud does exist, and there are some absolute chancers doing it, but I don't think it's through duplicate PPS numbers on a large scale.