Is it illegal to sell puppies

Tranceypoo

out of the back of your car/van at the local village fete? I'm almost sure it is but can't find anything to prove it, I was at one yesterday and there were at least 2 separate cars with pups being sold out of the back of them, I didn't look too closely, I knew I might get involved in an argument if I did. I saw a guarda there but because I couldn't quote any legislation or have any proof it was illegal I didn't say anything. If I can find something to back it up I will write to the organisers to complain.

godtabh

why would it be illegal?

barone

jees over reaction or what, hardly a puppy farm !, some country folk dont have the internet to sell their puppies..

relax

mikom

Tranceypoo wrote: »

. I saw a guarda there but because I couldn't quote any legislation or have any proof it was illegal

In fairness a Portuguese city would have no legal rights in this country.

MarthaMyDear

No. It's the exact same as selling them on the internet, in the Buy and Sell or from your own house.

Bizzum

godtabh wrote: »

why would it be illegal?

It is Illegal according to: SECTION 23, Part V REGULATION OF SALE OF PET ANIMALS

No 10/1965 PROTECTION OF ANIMALS (AMENDMENT) ACT, 1965.

Bizzum

MarthaMyDear wrote: »

No. It's the exact same as selling them on the internet, in the Buy and Sell or from your own house.

No it's not. Regulations specify a "public place".

Chinasea

barone wrote: »

jees over reaction or what, hardly a puppy farm !, some country folk dont have the internet to sell their puppies..

relax

I am hoping you can't be for real. Have you any idea (obvioulsy not) how many poor dogs are abandoned in our shameful maxed out dog pounds?

Trap neuter spay the people who are selling animals like this.

barone

Chinasea wrote: »

I am hoping you can't be for real. Have you any idea (obvioulsy not) how many poor dogs are abandoned in our shameful maxed out dog pounds?

Trap neuter spay the people who are selling animals like this.

wow, major drama here..




ikc reg dogs are muck anyway.. wouldnt touch one,inbreds.

Tranceypoo

barone wrote: »

jees over reaction or what, hardly a puppy farm !, some country folk dont have the internet to sell their puppies..

relax

I don't consider it an over-reaction. How do you know it wasn't a puppy farm, just a 'mobile' version where they take the hardest to sell pups out to the local county fetes to get some cash in hand? Even if it was someone ignorant enough to have let their dog have pups due to their own irresponsibility of letting an unspayed female wander or got at by an unneutered male, I still object.

Do you know how many dogs are killed in this country every year because of attitudes such as 'ah sure it's only one litter', 'ah sure we could make a few quid if she has puppies', I object to people selling puppies whether it's on the internet, on done deal or at a local village fair because this country is overrun with dogs as it is, because people don't neuter or spay and because some people, frankly, are too bloody ignorant to even own a dog (or cat come to that). I also object to these puppies being treated as toys, handed out to all the kids for them to hold and squeeze and manhandle and go 'mammy mammy can I have it can I have it' and the parents buy a puppy without any thought or research going into it, get it home and then don't know what to do with it after the kid gets bored. I object, in fact I detest, the practice in this country of dogs being treated like disposable items and/or ways of making a quick buck.

Thanks Bizzum, that's the info that I was after!

Bizzum

barone wrote: »

ikc reg dogs are muck anyway.. wouldnt touch one,inbreds.

Can you expand a bit on this point please?
I'm interested to see where you're coming from.

barone

Bizzum wrote: »

Can you expand a bit on this point please?
I'm interested to see where you're coming from.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhXHFOrBbEc

its no different here

Bizzum

I suspected this is what you would reply. Indeed the IKC has a lot to answer for, much beyond the remit of this thread, but the answer is not to sell dogs from the boots of cars.

I have seen that documentary before. But I didn't need to see it to know what is happening on the ground. That's for another thread though!

Shanao

I spotted a crowd at one of the agricultural shows selling "Jack Russell puppies" out of a cardboard box, in incredible heat with no shade, food or water. I didn't go closer because i know there would be an argument, but even from where I was standing I could see they were staffy puppies. Who knows where these pups came from? A puppy farm, backyard breeder, maybe they were stolen and sold on, as is happening all too often now. Who knows? Who knows where the parents are? Who knows if the parents are even healthy? Unfortunately, in the face of 'adorable puppies' too many people turn ignorant to the questions they should be asking and simply hand over their hardearned cash.
If it isn't illegal, it bloody well should be.:mad:

barone

Bizzum wrote: »

I suspected this is what you would reply. Indeed the IKC has a lot to answer for, much beyond the remit of this thread, but the answer is not to sell dogs from the boots of cars.

I have seen that documentary before. But I didn't need to see it to know what is happening on the ground. That's for another thread though!

would you buy a ikc reg dog? its a serious question,honestly?

Discodog

Bizzum is correct. It is illegal.


Section 23 prohibits the sale of animals as pets in a public place making it an offence to so do. According to Section 2 “public place” means “any place to which the public have access whether as of right or by permission and whether subject to or free of charge.”.

Where a person is convicted of conducting an illegal sale, the Court may provide of the humane disposal or destruction of the animals.

barone

Discodog wrote: »

Bizzum is correct. It is illegal.


Section 23 prohibits the sale of animals as pets in a public place making it an offence to so do. According to Section 2 “public place” means “any place to which the public have access whether as of right or by permission and whether subject to or free of charge.”.

Where a person is convicted of conducting an illegal sale, the Court may provide of the humane disposal or destruction of the animals.

so kill the animals?

what a backwards law that is

Bizzum

barone wrote: »

would you buy a ikc reg dog? its a serious question,honestly?

I have bought Ped Reg dogs over the years. Mainly turned out to be be powerful dogs. All working dogs though, and all from known working stock.

But again I don't see the link with the illegal selling of pups from a car boot.

andreac

Nothing wrong with buying an IKC reg dog once you do your homework and research your breeder etc.

Cherry Blossom

barone - I suggest you stick to the topic of the thread, there wasn't even mention of pedigree dogs in the OP. If it's a matter you wish to discuss I suggest you start a thread on the topic.

For those making smart alec comments, I suggest you double check which forum it is you have wandered into, and read the charter if you wish to continue posting in it.

Any more off topic replies will be met with infractions.

Sigma Force

Wouldn't buy one out of a van because I wouldn't want to give the person money when I don't know how many dogs he has, that he favours selling them to anyone who'll buy them without homechecks. Lets face it these folks don't sell them out of a car out of the goodness of their hearts.
Not sure how concrete the law is but as far as I know you need some sort of licence to sell animals in public.
Personally can't stand a lot of those types of fetes etc. and some poultry sales make me cringe they often sell rabbits as well with no clue as to where the animals are goin.

Cherry Blossom

It would be much appreciated if posters could refrain from carrying on off-topic discussions/arguments after moderator intervention has occurred in the thread.

Discodog

barone wrote: »

so kill the animals?

what a backwards law that is

The wording says "may" not "will".

Tranceypoo

Guys, thanks for all the helpful information and comments. I shall be writing a letter to the organising committee of the local village fete this afternoon. I hope it has some effect but I guess I won't know till next year.

Tranceypoo

Shanao wrote: »

I spotted a crowd at one of the agricultural shows selling "Jack Russell puppies" out of a cardboard box, in incredible heat with no shade, food or water. I didn't go closer because i know there would be an argument, but even from where I was standing I could see they were staffy puppies. Who knows where these pups came from? A puppy farm, backyard breeder, maybe they were stolen and sold on, as is happening all too often now. Who knows? Who knows where the parents are? Who knows if the parents are even healthy? Unfortunately, in the face of 'adorable puppies' too many people turn ignorant to the questions they should be asking and simply hand over their hardearned cash.
If it isn't illegal, it bloody well should be.:mad:

Shanao, do you think now you know it's illegal, would you say anything? Part of me wants to march up to them quoting the law, the other part doesn't want a stand up row in public and potentially start trouble, especially if I have my dogs with me (I'd be worried someone would hurt them!!). In fact what's the general feeling on here, would you say something in this situation or just walk on by fuming silently?

The other thing that upset me was there was a sheep in a tight pen, literally he couldn't move, just stand there, I think it was a guess the weight contest but she was in the bright sun, no shade, water or food, I just felt so sorry for her, I know in the UK they have the RSPCA going round these sorts of places to make sure the animals are being looked after ok but of course here, well the ISPCA doesn't even cover the whole country, we have 1 gspca inspector for the whole of Galway and I don't think she works Sundays!!

DBB

Tranceypoo,
I saw the very same as you at a fair in Cork during the year, and I have an approach to life now that if I see an animal being mistreated, I won't do nothing. I have in the past, but the guilt eats me up so I've resolved now to always do something.
I think approaching these people yourself is a waste of time. In my case, I approached the attending Garda sergeant, and told him what I'd seen. He said it's not against the law, but I told him it is, and quoted the 1965 Act to him... He was a bit embarrassed, but I suppose there isn't huge emphasis put on knowledge of animal welfare law in Templemore!
He said he was busy and had other priorities, so I told him that's fine... I'll wait.
While I waited, I went over to the puppy seller, took photos of him, his car reg, his pups, and his "pups for sale" sign, and told him I'd spoken to the guards. Then I went back to the guard so I could show him where the pups were. I told him I'd taken photos and was prepared to make noise about it if I had to, (ignoring all the hooky DVDs and power tools that were for sale). The puppy seller was duly asked to leave.
So, you may have to make yourself a thorn in the side of the attending guards, but the law is on your side... Whether the guards know it or not! They may not prosecute these puppy sellers, but they can make it difficult for them to continue trading.
Similarly, writing to the organisers is a good thing to do, but do keep on their case if they try to fob you off.

Shanao

Tranceypoo wrote: »

Shanao, do you think now you know it's illegal, would you say anything? Part of me wants to march up to them quoting the law, the other part doesn't want a stand up row in public and potentially start trouble, especially if I have my dogs with me (I'd be worried someone would hurt them!!). In fact what's the general feeling on here, would you say something in this situation or just walk on by fuming silently?

The other thing that upset me was there was a sheep in a tight pen, literally he couldn't move, just stand there, I think it was a guess the weight contest but she was in the bright sun, no shade, water or food, I just felt so sorry for her, I know in the UK they have the RSPCA going round these sorts of places to make sure the animals are being looked after ok but of course here, well the ISPCA doesn't even cover the whole country, we have 1 gspca inspector for the whole of Galway and I don't think she works Sundays!!

I was going to but the OH wouldn't let me. I had Big Dog with me as well(the akita) so I definitely didn't want to start any hassle while he was there. I would have loved to just walk over and take the pups off him or at least demand he take them out of there, but she would have killed me for doing so. On the other hand, if its kittens, I have to stop her from attacking the bastards. Honestly, I'm not sure how it would have gone down if i had been there alone; probably would have ended up in hospital or in a cell for the night. I heard there were siberian husky puppies for sale at the Munster Show, even while there was an IKC show on. I hope someone there took the bastard down a peg or two.

I have always found problems with the way animals are housed at these shows, cramped into small spaces, with no food or water, and being forced to stand out in the heat with no shelter. Honestly, I think DBB's way is about the best to go about this because approaching the idiots selling them will do little to no good.

Tranceypoo

Shanao, same as me, I always think I'll just lose my rag and start getting too emotional, DBB your way sounds the exact right thing to do and I'm going to print off the actual section of the law for the next time, although I do try to avoid these places, but next year I will go to this particular one armed with my knowledge. Love the fact garda didn't know the law. But not surprised!!!

Tranceypoo

It feels like 'them' and 'us' a lot of the time

area51

Tranceypoo: If only more people think like you. I agree 100% with your feelings on this.

also Barone: IKC reg does not mean that a full bred dog does not have problems: That is exactly why the breeding of pure bred dogs should be left to professional breeders who study and know how to breed dogs and do so to BETTER THE BREED!!!!

NOT someone who has a pure bred dog and decides they would like to breed their dog because they will make nice pups or for money etc, they are the people who end up breeding dogs with problems like hip dysplasia and eye probs etc, with other dogs who have problems, and so bringing a whole new line of pure bred dogs with problems!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry Barone but your reasoning does not make any sense whatsoever.