Opinions on parents

LegacyUser

Hi guys, just looking for what the general opinion is on how parents make decisions.
My parents basically work like this...
If my mother says something, or makes a rule, or goes crazy about something no matter how unreasonable or cruel she is being, my dad will just agree with her because the marriage comes first.
This annoys me to no end.
None of us ever get any support from our father because of this.
My mother just makes crazy demands and acts irrationally and it has to be completely accepted because my dad never stands up and says "ok hang on a minute, this is a bit unfair or unreasonable".
It really hurts sometimes actually, because its like we come second to our mother.
He is never a support or someone to back us up when we need it.
Its also a bit embarrassing to see because he appears as a complete coward and a walk-over, without any opinion of his own. Its just "yes, if your mother says it, or wants it, then thats what has to happen".

So im just wondering, is this the norm as far as marriages go? To keep the peace with your spouse and back them up no matter what the situation?
Or should there be times when you put your childrens well-bring first and say well hang on a minute now thats just not right?
Like im aware that parents need to have a united front, and there's no good in letting one of your children come between you, but shouldnt there be exceptions?

Any inputs welcome.

Jack B. Badd

Out of curiousity, how old are you & your siblings? Under 18 & I would say that this isn't the most healthy family dynamic (depending on what these "crazy" rules are) - I'd need more info here, I think, to generate an informed opinion. Over 18 & it's not really any of your business imo - you're adults with your own lives as are your parents, you might not like it but you don't get to have an opinion on other adults' relationship.

OS119

depends on the situation, though most parents quickly decide that you have to present a united front to avoid being played off against each other and undermining each other.

so if i'm presented with something i don't like, but which isn't both time sensitive and potentially dangerous, i'll go along with whatever my wife has said. we may talk about it later, in private, when i'll make clear that i'm unhappy with the decision, or that i'm unhappy about the lack of consultation - and we may change the decision, but we try very hard not to have that discussion in front of the kids.

the only time i would publicly ignore/overide a previous decision made by my wife was if i believed that it was a safety issue, and where there was no time to discuss it with my wife.

this does not mean that we're the perfect parenting machine however, the little bastards still catch us out!

Shelli2

Myself and my partner (while not married, but have a son together), will always present a united front, no matter how crazy the other person sounds. Afterwards, and away from our son, we then discuss it if needs be.

LegacyUser

Jack B. Badd wrote: »

Out of curiousity, how old are you & your siblings? Under 18 & I would say that this isn't the most healthy family dynamic (depending on what these "crazy" rules are) - I'd need more info here, I think, to generate an informed opinion. Over 18 & it's not really any of your business imo - you're adults with your own lives as are your parents, you might not like it but you don't get to have an opinion on other adults' relationship.

Why would it be less healthy when youre under age and at the stage in life where youre supposed to just follow your parents direction?
Its that a time when your opinion should be less valid on situations because youre not really an adult yet and so might not be able to make rational judgements yourself?
And then when youre over 18 and an adult yourself you should have less judgement on your parents also adult relationship?
Sorry just struck me as a bit odd the way you put it...

Anyway.
No we are all over 18 now.
This is just something that has always bothered me, my whole life really.
Its always been the case, when we were under 18, and over.
For me im at a stage now where im seeing some things in my brothers and sister that are making me uncomfortable, and feel they are a direct result of this relationship my parents have / had, and how they ran the house when we were growing up, and I wanted to finally get some outside opinions on it.

For example my sister is completely bossy towards her boyfriend, to a point where its embarrassing for other people to be around them.
She seems to always choose men younger then her that she can dominate, who seem to have very little self esteem.
She puts them down constantly, how they look and referring to them as being stupid and incompetent. They are usually so lacking in self esteem that they stay none the less until she dumps them.
I say "they" because its been the same scenario with her ex's as with her current BF.

And then the opposite, my brothers and just hugely lacking in self esteem.
As opposed to being domineering and bossy they are really submissive and have little self-worth.
They have no motivation in life to do anything for themselves.
Neither have jobs (and not because of the current climate, they just cant be bothered having jobs and I cant think of a time either of them had one).
One of them claims disability allowance for depression, he does suffer from anxiety but I feel its made worse by the fact that he just cant go out there and start living normally, get a job and work for his money and fee part of normal society. Its like an endless catch 22.
He's 25 and never had a job in his life. He doesnt want to ever come off the allowance and get a job, ive asked him what he wants from his future and thats it. To get free money and laze around all day. And he does put it like this too.
He said if he ever has to come off the allowance and get a job he'd just kill himself and that would be his life over and done with.
He just has so little self esteem that nothing is worth making a better life for himself.

The other brother is just constantly worrying and puts himself down in conversation the whole time, about anything. He'll just mumble "uhhh, i dont know, i dont know" after everything he says. If he has an opinion and someone gives a different one, he'll say something like "yeah your right, it is x,y,z youre right" and just agree with what the other person has said even when they are not in the least trying to change anyones mind, just give their own opinion back, even along the lines of "oh really you like that song, im not really that into it" and my brother will automatically go "yeah, its not really that good, i dont really like it either", when clearly he does. He cant stand up for himself at all, and puts himself down the whole time.

Seeing the way my siblings have turned out makes me feel that the way my mother immasculates my father and the way he just accepts that his place is to agree to her every whim and idea has had a massive effect on their behavioural problems.
Boys v's girls.
My brothers have no strong male role model, and my sister believes she has to boss and dominate all her BF's like my mum does with my dad.

Im just concerned and want to know before I ever get married, if I ever do, how much of an effect the parents marriage has on the off-spring, and whether its very important to support the children in the family as well as looking after your spouse, or whether as my parents have said, once the marriage in the house is strong thats all that matters.
Where is the line?
Shouldnt each parent keep the other parent in check as it were, if they think they are acting bady, rather then just go with it to keep the peace with the person they are married to?

PS: Crazy things my mother would do...
One Stephens night she was giving me and 2 of my siblings a lift out to town to save us on taxi money as we are a bit out from the town and St. Stephens night is obv more expensive. While getting ready i was listening to my ipod around the house, putting makeup on, etc, and she told me to take it off, that it was rude to have one on in the house
(note that i wasnt in company, i was walking about the house doing my own thing, and no one was trying to talk to me...)
so anyway I took it off and was popping it into my bag as we were heading out the door to the car for the lift. Mum saw the ipod and didnt come out.
We were sat in the car and she never came...
We waited. Still no sign of her.
So my brother went in to see what was up.
He came back out to me and my sis and said she refuses to get up off the chair and drive anywhere if my ipod is in my hand-bag!!!
At this we all just sighed and went back in and I asked her what was the issue here, why did it bother her if I took my ipod out or not? What difference did it make?
She just said that was her rule, and she wasnt changing her mind. Either i leave it at home or shes not moving.
My dad was in another room watching tv paying no heed.
So my siblings wanting their lift just went out to the car and said come on mum for gods sake can we just go.
So she said ok but shes not coming with us. So I was arguing with her going out the door, like come on mum now this is a bit ridiculous...
At this my dad was out seeing what the fuss was about.
Out she went anyway ignoring me and drove off in the car leaving me behind.
My dad didnt say a word about how crazy this was, he just said, ok well then ill take you if thats how your mum feels.
So there was mum in 1 car with 2 siblings, and my dad and me in another car 2 mins behind them, going 15 mins in the same direction...
Dad just says ok ill take you, and never breaths a word to mum about how ludicrous this was, and how it wasnt necessary for him to make the trip too.
Why wouldnt he put his foot down here? They had agreed earlier that she would do the lift in and he would give us a lift home. But he just accepted the disruption to his evening over something ridiculous and said nada.

This is just one example of 100's.

Ickle Magoo

Hey OP,

This forum is just for getting advice on your particular issue.

If you want a wider discussion on parents affecting their children's ability to relate in a relationship because of witnessing how parents act/react with each other then Humanities would probably be the best forum.

we'llallhavetea_old

well i'm not married, but i will give this a shot and say no. this is not how marriages are supposed to be. your ma sounds mental.

Android 666

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Hey OP,

This forum is just for getting advice on your particular issue.

If you want a wider discussion on parents affecting their children's ability to relate in a relationship because of witnessing how parents act/react with each other then Humanities would probably be the best forum.

OP, you just got busted by your ma!

LegacyUser

we'llallhavetea wrote: »

your ma sounds mental.

She is. A lot of the time.
Another time she told me, in a room where there was no storage space, that if any of my things were touching the floor, or on the bed (which was the only place to put stuff)
then they were going in the skip outside.
I told her there was no space, there is a tiny wardrobe in this room (which was my room at the time) but it was full of old things like dresses and coats and suits that only come out once in a blue moon.
To this she went to my room, grabbed a hold of some random things and chucked them in the skip outside. I rescued them. They i went to my room to do as she said and pack away all my stuff into suitcases. She came in and TURNED THE LIGHT OFF. She said I could do it in the dark, that i wouldnt be wasting their electricity to do what i needed to do.
*sigh*

And yes thanks for the advice IckleMagoo, i will look at that forum later.

Ickle Magoo

Please keep replies on topic and helpful to the OP - if posters have no constructive advice to offer then kindly refrain from posting.

Be aware that off-topic and unhelpful posting can earn you a ban from this forum so please take the time to read the [URL=" http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056181484"]forum rules[/URL] in the charter and abide by them.

Many thanks.

Zen65

Opinions_on_parents wrote: »

Any inputs welcome.

You're over 18, so have you ever sat down one-to-one with your Dad and asked him why he does not get involved, or speak on your behalves? Perhaps you'd find he does (privately to his wife) and has been unsuccessful.

Re Ipod incident, I agree it sounds off-the-wall. But, at the end of the day you're adults, and either you talk to your mother as an adult about her behaviour, or you leave home. It might make the case best if you spoke one-to-one with her, but failing that then you and all your siblings should meet her together and propose that you will all leave unless she amends her ways. This is not really a "parent" issue, it's one adult's behaviour to another. She sounds very manipulative and controlling, but it does seem that she is being given her way, which is unhealthy for all of you.

BTW, I'm assuming your mother's behaviour really was always like this, rather than this simply being a case of her having mental health issues herself recently? Sometimes during menopause a woman may appear to have severe mood swings and act "irrationally" (though this is not as common as urban myths would suggest). My own mother behaved awfully during those years, but there were a combination of many factors both health-wise and circumstantial which contributed to her apparent madness.


Be at peace,


Z

Daisy M

Op your mother does sound unstable. Now to answer your question I think most parents try and show a united front to children, but when kids arent around will discuss if they have opposing opinions.
Personally I think your been too hard on your dad. Your mother sounds unstable and he has been with her a long time, he may have just learned that not confronting her is the least distructive way for everyone involved. In the first situation you described he didnt ignore the situation, he gave you a lift and didnt force your mother to bring you probably knowing that any attempt to do so would escalate the row further.
My mother has mad moments and her ability to never back down, cause a huge scene, scream, rant and roar and say the most horrible things means that she is rarely stood up to. Believe me I and siblings have stood up to her in the past and it has caused really bad reactions, so now I just stay out of her way as much as possible. Its not an ideal situation but it limits the amount of times she can blow up I dont really care how she behaves to me but she has done it in front of my children and I do not want them growing up thinking this is normal or acceptable behaviour. I have considered having nothing to do with her but again I dont want my children thinking thats normal either!

greengirl31

OP,

I can totally see where you're coming from. I'm in my 30's now and my mum was like yours when we were younger (I think she still is to a cretin extent but I just don't indulge her) . Anyway, She has a heart of gold and most of the time would do anything for you but she'd go on mad rants too. One night she locked me out of the house cause I was late coming home from my friends house - Now this particular night, I was driving so therefore not drinking, was in work for a 7am shift the next morning so It couldn't have been that late and any other night there was never an issue with how late I stayed out. I was about 20 at this stage and drove most nights I went out as back then you couldn't get a taxi for love nor money at throwing out time ... So that particular night I had to sleep in the car and it was November !!! Another day I was out at a BBQ with friends in a park - that she would never have been to before - but she turned up out of the blue with the dog which might sound very innocent then she didn't even acknowledge me pretended she didn't see me when I know she did !!! Now I'd understand if I was a troublesome teenager or whatever but I wasn't - I didn't come home puking all over the house or waking everyone up. I was just a normal young girl who went out for a few drinks and a bit of a laugh with her mates. But when I'd look to my dad for back up he'd just shrug his shoulders - he was the "anything for a quiet life type". Now I get on with both my parents now, but I always kinda resented my dad for not sticking up for us all a bit more ...
As a result of this, My brother is the type that can do nothing for himself and needs a girlfriend (any girlfriend) to push him to do anything. My middle sister is a nervous wreck and my youngest sister is every stamp of my mother !! I think cause I was the oldest I bore the brunt of her rants but I stood up for myself more than the others did but even now I find myself tiptoeing around her sometimes ...
I'm a parent myself now and I just hope I don't get like that when my girl is older ...

OS119

Opinions_on_parents wrote: »

...and never breaths a word to mum about how ludicrous this was, and how it wasnt necessary for him to make the trip too....

how do you know?

as you can see from the responses from parents, we generally try very hard to avoid having such conversations/arguments well away from children. unless you are very close - and i mean 'Alabama close' - to your parents, you have no idea whether they have such discussions.

however its pretty obvious that your mum is a bit of a loony, and that your dad isn't that effective at curbing her 'excentricities' - and you are entitled look around you and come to your own conclusions about quite how effective the parenting model your parents used was. which lessons you decide to learn, and how you choose to to impliment those lessons in your own parenting model is up to you, but there's not a lot you can do about your parents...

LegacyUser

Zen65 wrote: »

have you ever sat down one-to-one with your Dad and asked him why he does not get involved, or speak on your behalves?

Yes we've said it to him, on different occassions, but he just says he agrees with our mother and thats just the way it is, even though its obvious to us he sometimes doesnt agree or doesnt really care (about stupid things she gets crazy about) but just cant even stand up and be honest with himself. He comes across as being totally whipped and its embarrassing even the way he speaks when we talk to him about it. He barely talks to us much anyway.

Zen65 wrote: »

It might make the case best if you spoke one-to-one with her, but failing that then you and all your siblings should meet her together and propose that you will all leave unless she amends her ways.

Whenever we try to bring her up on things it usually results in her getting nasty and insulting you verbally, or her leaving the room and going to our father, in which case he comes out and says to leave her alone. We might say, but we're just trying to talk to her and she's had her say, we should be allowed to have our say back, but he'll just say tough. You cant win.
Also, even when we are living away our mother gets on at us about crazy things, like telling me I use my Facebook account only to hurt other people (for NO reason what so ever might I add, I mean there wasnt even a misunderstanding somewhere that might explain these words)
Or for ex. Ive tried to talk to her about some things I was unhappy about her doing / saying when I was living away and her response was to say that my boyfriend didnt give me enough attention and that was the only reason I was "bothering her" about anything.
She constantly hands out put-downs and insults and criticisms about everything, esp when you confront her with something.

Zen65 wrote: »

BTW, I'm assuming your mother's behaviour really was always like this, rather than this simply being a case of her having mental health issues herself recently?

No its just always the way she's been.
She's over the menopause at this stage too.
Sure when dad asked her to marry him she had a list of conditions, and said if they were met she'd marry him.
He had to stop smoking, he had to marry her in a Catholic church (he's prodestant), The kids would be raised as Catholics, they had to live in Ireland (he's English), he had to have a house for them to live in first because she wouldnt be engaged until they had a house, and even now when they go on holidays together he is not allowed to watch ANY tv while they are away. None. Its her rule.
And while these things might be fair enough, and dad accepts them, its just to show that shes quite a control freak and pretty domineering.

Thanks for your advice, and like Is Mise Astra said, ive thought so much about just cutting her out but its so hard when its your mother, you cant replace a mother!

I just feel somewhat that my dad is partly to blame for the situation, and the issues my siblings have. I know if it were me, there'd be times I wouldnt wait and see a situation through, before I said to my partner, STOP, this is crazy.
Am I wrong?
I mean sometimes its too much to say, ill let this happen and talk to her again in private later, and I know he doesnt because she does the same things over and over again.

LegacyUser

This sounds SO exactly like my story, thanks for sharing.
I also get the brunt of her madness, get the worst treatment, and im the only one that ever *really* stands up and says this is a bit out of order, and the result is that im the most stable of my siblings...!
You'd think id be the most crazy cos I get a lot more of her abusive behaviour.
Its funny isnt it, how siblings react and get affected in different ways.

hey op, i think maybe you should stop worrying about your parents relationship. its not really any of your business, im assuming they are still married, happily as you dont say otherwise.
your father had that list before he married your mother, he knew what he was getting.

you appear to be the only one worried about their marraige. he knows her a lot longer and better than you do, she is not your friend, she is your mother.
my friends kids will never know them in the same way i do.

also, why decide that the faults you see in all three of your siblings are your mothers fault??
maybe they are who they are, why would you be the only one to escape the curse of your mothers character???

you think she is so bad, and you point out flaws in your fathers character. as well as the faults in your siblings characters, you place all the blame, for what you see as negative characteristics at the door of your mother.

maybe you need to deal with your issues regarding her and leave the rest of your family, including your father, to deal with their own problems (if they have any!!)

LegacyUser

bubblypop wrote: »

Im assuming they are still married, happily as you dont say otherwise.
your father had that list before he married your mother, he knew what he was getting.

Yes. And as I said myself her demands were fair enough and he was happy to accept them, I only used that example to show that shes always been fairly demanding and in control.

bubblypop wrote: »

you appear to be the only one worried about their marraige.

my friends kids will never know them in the same way i do.

This isnt the case, my brothers have had discussions with me and believe it or not it gets to them even more so the way my father is. One of them cant stand it so much that he NEVER comes home, not even for important family ocassions that I will make the effort and go to. He is barely even here for Christmas days and when he is he will eat the dinner really fast and just leave before anyone else is finished.
My sister is the only one who doesnt give a crap really about any of it, but she is treated the best and doted on my both my parents.

bubblypop wrote: »

also, why decide that the faults you see in all three of your siblings are your mothers fault??

Not my mothers, but the product of what they've seen in *both* my parents relationships with each other.
Other people saying it to me esp about my sister has convinced me its a factor.
Plus my brother themselves have both said to me they feel their lack of self esteem is at its root in my mothers constant criticism, that it really gets them down.
Plus, the youngest brother again said he NEVER will have children because he is terrified they will go through what he did.
He also started dating a woman in her mif-40's, 20+ years his senior!!! (with her kids all older then him) because he is CRYING out for a caring mother figure in his life.
That relationship is destructive too but he just wont leave it because he thinks no one his own age would have him!

bubblypop wrote: »

maybe you need to deal with your issues regarding her and leave the rest of your family, including your father, to deal with their own problems (if they have any!!)

Oh boy do my siblings have problems... and what kind of sister would I be if I just turned a blind eye and left them deal with their own rather then give them my support and try to understand or intervene?
Thats how I see it.
Both brothers have expressed suicidal thoughts to me on numerous ocassions.

I dont know if my dad has problems as tbh we barely know him, he rarely speaks to us, and 90% of the communication is made through our mum who then reports back to him on what we're doing in our lives, 100% if its over phones. He never calls any of us.

Thanks for your input though.
I think im fairly certain if I ever get married I would try hard to make sure things were not the same way they were in our house when we were growing up.
Its too dysfunctional.

lace

Hi OP!

It sounds as though your family dynamic is a little dysfunctional. Lots of women take the role of leader in a household but what seems to be the problem is that your mother is unreasonable about it.

This said - there's not really much you can do about the relationship between your mother and father. Unfair and dysfunctional as you think it is - it's their marriage and their business. Your father has been under your mother's thumb for decades and I don't think this is going to change at this stage and if it is to change it's him who has to make that decision.

I know you want to support your siblings and be there for them but it sounds like your brother (the one who's depressed and refusing to work) needs professional help. You could point him in the direction of his GP or a mental health professional but that's about all you can do for him.

The same goes for your sister and her relationships with men. You may not agree with what she's doing but there's not much you can do to change it. All you can hope for is that some day one of these men will stand up to her and she'll be able to compromise and have a healthy relationship.

You sound angry at the way your parents raised you and your siblings and you have every right to be. If you feel that your parents let you down then you have a right to be mad about it. But at the end of the day, you can't change the past and you can't change the behaviour of your grown up family members either. The best you can do is move on and be sure that your life (and that of any future family you may have) is better. Perhaps you could talk to a professional about how your upbringing is affecting you and clear out some of the feelings you've got locked up?

Maybe you could put all your thoughts and feelings on paper. Write "letters" to your mum, dad and siblings separately and let everything out. When you're finished, read through them and think about how you feel. You may decide to give them the letters (but would this do any good?), you may decide to raise some of the issues with them in a face-to-face discussion or you may simply decide to burn the letters or keep them to yourself. It might be a way to get all your feelings out though. Just a thought.

LegacyUser

lace wrote: »

it sounds like your brother (the one who's depressed and refusing to work) needs professional help. You could point him in the direction of his GP or a mental health professional but that's about all you can do for him.

Hi and thank you.
Me is already seeing a psychiatrist and getting meds.
He is on disability allowance because of this but he needs a counsellor rather then just drugs. Ive said Ill go with him and even pay most of the fee, but he can go for free and just doesnt want to, it makes him nervous to see professionals.

lace wrote: »

Maybe you could put all your thoughts and feelings on paper. Write "letters" to your mum, dad and siblings separately and let everything out. When you're finished, read through them and think about how you feel. You may decide to give them the letters (but would this do any good?)

Its funny you should say that. I tried it recently- wrote a letter with my feelings in it, a calm reasonable and in parts very kind.
I left it for her and went to stay with my BF.
I then called her to tell her it was on my bed and to keep it somewhere for when I got back and we could talk about it in person after she'd read it and thought about it, and she told me she had found it and flushed it down the toilet.

This is how she treats my feelings. It was purely symbolic from her part. She didnt just throw it in the bin or shred it, she literally flushed it away like excrement.
Says it all really.
Thanks though, it helps to hear your opinions on all the rest of it too.
I feel a lot calmer today.

lolo62

hi OP sounds like dysfunctional co-dependancy to me (and also very familiar!) can have a devastating effect on all children (young or old) of that family...my advice would be if you want to break the pattern and grow away from it go get some therapy...sounds like youre the one with the awareness so make use of it!

not sure if you are male or female, i didnt read all your posts but there is a great website http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/
its aimed specifically at daughers in these families (obviously!) but there is some good info there about the dynamics in these kinds of families regardless of your gender....you might be interested in the parts on 'enabling fathers' and the roles this kind of mother sets up for her children

the most important thing to try and keep in mind though is that while you are probably hurt by their behaviour they haven't a clue how it affects you....its all unconscious and not deliberate (although sometimes it might feel that way) -this is why therapy is good as it provides a place that is safe to have the feelings and unravel some of the mess
best of luck!

LegacyUser

My own situation would be similar in that my mum makes whatever decisions she likes and my dad falls in line 100% of the time. However my mum has suffered with mental illness her whole adult life and whilst I get frustrated at the effects this kind of decision-making has had on my life and that of my siblings, I understand why they do things that way. To a certain extent I admire the fact that he is so supportive of her, however ludicrous some of her decisions have been. However, the effect on our family life has been huge but I really can't blame her for that - she did the best she could y'know?

LegacyUser

lolo62 wrote: »

not sure if you are male or female, i didnt read all your posts but there is a great website http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/
its aimed specifically at daughers in these families (obviously!)

Thanks for this, and yes I am a daughter

ChattyChick

Hi OP,

It sounds like a really tough situation but IMO there's only one thing for it. You need to leave them to it.

It's bad enough that so many lives haven't reached their full potential without you wasting your life trying to fix something that you can't change. And you can't, you know. All of the problems and symptoms are entirely oustide of your control. You have a choice now...you can continue to spend your energy on something that is fruitless (that much is obvious from the outside) or you can spend your energy on building your own life.

The very fact that you are aware of the dynamic would suggest to me that you're not going to end up in the same situation if you eventually marry and have children. That shouldn't be an issue.

The only thing to do now is to try to build a relationship based around a new set of expectations of your family:

-You've given it your best shot, MANY times.
-You're not going to change or fix them.
-You are responsible for your future, not theirs.
-They are human beings with as many faults and failings as the rest of us.
-Expect little from them and you'll be overjoyed by what little you do get.
-View them as people you have a shared history with, people you care an awful lot for, and people you will be available to IF they ask you for help.
-Keep your time with them to a minimum so you never get past the friendly stage.

I hope this helps. It's what I did and it seems to have worked because there has been a huge mind shift all around as a result.

Take care