VRT Question

#Daniel

A friend of mine bought a vehicle in Northern Ireland a few months ago, and due to unforeseen circumstances has not done anything else with it. It is sitting in his shed with the NI plates and is not taxed etc.

Anyhoo, he wants to sell it on but the question is does he have to pay VRT before he can sell it here or in the North?

TylerIE

#Daniel wrote: »

A friend of mine bought a vehicle in Northern Ireland a few months ago, and due to unforeseen circumstances has not done anything else with it. It is sitting in his shed with the NI plates and is not taxed etc.

Anyhoo, he wants to sell it on but the question is does he have to pay VRT before he can sell it here or in the North?

He would be supposed to register it before selling it in the South.

Question on VRT from motor dealers from NCT VRT Site

If he sold it to an Irish buyer they could have difficulty when they go to re-register it as they will not have an invoice within the last 30 days from the UK seller. The NCT VRT centre could require them to prove when it came into the state, and pay the VRT that would have been applicable at that date.

Satanta

that raises an interesting question for me. What if you bought a car from a private sale in the north/england? You wouldnt have an invoice in that case. I paid VRT on a car last year and did have an invoice. The same question occurred to me then too.

TylerIE

Satanta wrote: »

that raises an interesting question for me. What if you bought a car from a private sale in the north/england? You wouldnt have an invoice in that case. I paid VRT on a car last year and did have an invoice. The same question occurred to me then too.

I asked that when booking in for VRT last time...
Seemingly your supposed to get some sort of invoice, even if handwritten, from the private seller.

I doubt many people would pay thousands of euro without getting some piece of paper from the seller?

However accepting almost anything as a receipt does obviously leave some potential for abuse!

CiniO

It still doesn't make sense to me.

Someone could bought a car few months ago, and have invoice from then, but only brought it to Ireland now.

Does that mean that NCT/VRT office won't accept the car, because invoice was issued few months back?

Invoice is not a proof of bringing it to the state, and might not be related to it at all.

Our man in Havana

Potential for abuse? It leaves the door open for serious VRT evaders to make up their own date of sale to avoid penalties.

Our man in Havana

CiniO wrote: »

It still doesn't make sense to me.

Someone could bought a car few months ago, and have invoice from then, but only brought it to Ireland now.

Does that mean that NCT/VRT office won't accept the car, because invoice was issued few months back?

Invoice is not a proof of bringing it to the state, and might not be related to it at all.

Why do they even need an invoice at all? They decide the value of the car, not your receipt.

stephendevlin

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Why do they even need an invoice at all? They decide the value of the car, not your receipt.

Cos theyr money grabbin numpties

TylerIE

CiniO wrote: »

It still doesn't make sense to me.

Someone could bought a car few months ago, and have invoice from then, but only brought it to Ireland now.

Does that mean that NCT/VRT office won't accept the car, because invoice was issued few months back?

Invoice is not a proof of bringing it to the state, and might not be related to it at all.

Its on the VRT site that I linked to above, that if the invoice is from more than 30 days ago you must provide evidence of where the car was stored [outside the state].

If you cant they will accept the car, just the VRT will be applied at the rate applicable on the date of the invoice (VRT is based on the Open Market Selling Price (OMSP) which reflects how many years AND months old the car is).

It also states (elsewhere, different site) that you could be charged interest from when the VRT was due (Based on invoice) to the date you paid it.

TylerIE

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Potential for abuse? It leaves the door open for serious VRT evaders to make up their own date of sale to avoid penalties.

Yes it does....

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Why do they even need an invoice at all? They decide the value of the car, not your receipt.

They need it to ascertain exactly what the OMSP is on the date you purchased. OMSP reflects how old the vehicle is plus mileage and the mileage allowance is done on a monthly basis (iirc 1300 miles per month for a diesel, around 900 for a petrol car, if your car is above this the VRT is reduced slightly for every 1000 miles)

CiniO

TylerIE wrote: »

Its on the VRT site that I linked to above, that if the invoice is from more than 30 days ago you must provide evidence of where the car was stored [outside the state].

If you cant they will accept the car, just the VRT will be applied at the rate applicable on the date of the invoice (VRT is based on the Open Market Selling Price (OMSP) which reflects how many years AND months old the car is).

It also states (elsewhere, different site) that you could be charged interest from when the VRT was due (Based on invoice) to the date you paid it.

That sounds reasonable.
Assuming they accept some reasonable proof of storage abroad (like a letter from brother-in-law who lives up the north that car was stored in his shed).

TylerIE

CiniO wrote: »

That sounds reasonable.
Assuming they accept some reasonable proof of storage abroad (like a letter from brother-in-law who lives up the north that car was stored in his shed).

I imagine thats all they would want...

Although with the UK laws being as they are now - they could demand proof of it being taxed AND insured in the UK or proof that you had declared it off road (SORN), as if you had it up North your vehicle must be either taxed + insured or SORN'd.

corktina

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Why do they even need an invoice at all? They decide the value of the car, not your receipt.

obvious really. VRT is due on the value at date of import...not the depreciated value a year or so later when Paddy decides he might VRT it

CiniO

TylerIE wrote: »

I imagine thats all they would want...

Although with the UK laws being as they are now - they could demand proof of it being taxed AND insured in the UK or proof that you had declared it off road (SORN), as if you had it up North your vehicle must be either taxed + insured or SORN'd.

I can't see why Irish VRT office would ask for such documents.
Even you had it up the norht, not taxed and not declared off the road, you are braking Northern law. Irish VRT office or revenue has nothing to do with it. It's the Northern autohority to prosecute you for such offence.

Our man in Havana

corktina wrote: »

obvious really. VRT is due on the value at date of import...not the depreciated value a year or so later when Paddy decides he might VRT it

Cue handwritten invoice with yesterdays date written the night before.

TylerIE

CiniO wrote: »

I can't see why Irish VRT office would ask for such documents.
Even you had it up the norht, not taxed and not declared off the road, you are braking Northern law. Irish VRT office or revenue has nothing to do with it. It's the Northern autohority to prosecute you for such offence.

Because they are official documents which could prove where you stored the vehicle since you purchased it...

Not that I could imagine they would now, its just a possibility in the highly unlikely event Revenue did decide to try to cut out people with fake invoices and getting great Aunt Teresa to say she had the car on her front street for the last year.

CiniO

TylerIE wrote: »

Because they are official documents which could prove where you stored the vehicle since you purchased it...

That's right. That documents could prove that that vehicle was stored there, but if you say you don't have such documents, it doesn't prove that you didn't store the car there.
You always could have stored the car there illegally (according to NI law) and still say it to Irish revenue. For them it's only the fact that car was stored there is relevant. It's none of their business if it was stored there legally or not.

That's my point.