Debt sharing PR campaign - who is behind it?

Monty Burnz

I posted about this on After Hours, but the discussion there has gone down the road of the rights and wrongs of debt sharing, and I'd like to focus on the CT aspect of the story, so I'm posting it here too.

I'm sure everyone has noticed that since last week's Sunday Independent, we've been bombarded by a load of stuff demanding that the taxpayers share the debts of people in negative equity. There were a few articles about it here and there going back a couple of years, but suddenly it's all over the radio chat shows, the letters pages of the newspapers, and in articles in the papers themselves. It seems to me that it is likely to be part of an organised PR campaign to try to force the government into taking billions from social welfare, education and health budgets, and pouring even more money into the property disaster.

What I'm wondering is whether anyone has any ideas who is behind this media manipulation? I made two (serious) suggestions:

1. Fianna Failure, to try to force the government into a huge policy blunder?

2. The law firms that will make (another) killing by 'helping' those who would take advantage of debt sharing?

Obelisk

Monty Burnz wrote: »

it is likely to be part of an organised PR campaign to try to force the government into taking billions from social welfare, education and health budgets

To force the government? Would it not be more likely that this could be a government campaign to prepare us for such coming measures and also gauge our reaction in the process perhaps?

Monty Burnz

Obelisk wrote: »

To force the government? Would it not be more likely that this could be a government campaign to prepare us for such coming measures and also gauge our reaction in the process perhaps?

I don't think so; any government intervention in the area will be a disaster. The best they can do is modify the bankruptcy laws (which they are doing to make it less onerous) and try to take care of those who default as best they can.

Debt sharing is in the interests of only a small minority of citizens, but it will cost the rest of us a fortune. That's why you'd need to try to force the government to act by conning the public into thinking it's a good idea. The government would be reaping the whirlwind of the fallout for many years.

CiaranMT

Sindo is the unofficial mouthpiece of FF, that's easy to see. Witness their headlines a number of months ago talking up a split in the Govt when no such thing was occurring.

And since the Sindo (to our collective shame) is the most widely read paper on a Sunday, its news pieces will garner a lot of attention.

So, I'd go with the Sindo simply being full of FF lovers hopping on an idea which can be thrown at the Govt if/when things get even worse. I wouldn't credit the party itself with having the brains to organise this.

Obelisk

Apologies, I skimmed over the 'negative equity' aspect.

Incidentally Irish media arent the only ones covering this idea @ the moment: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44137895/ns/business-us_business/#.TluVXGDAg7M

Jeboa Safari

I think it's just the Sindo going with their usual way of pushing an agenda. They always have a new one every few weeks

CiaranMT

I do so wish they'd find some burgled Irish 'celeb' to fawn over for a while again.

WakeUp

I dunno maybe this is part of something bigger like preparing the public for an eventual national default?? would something like this have to happen if we defaulted on our national debt.?? would the two things be even linked in some way?...

Have no idea of the relevance of this but was talking to my next door neighbour earlier this evening who's brother works in one of the major banks here in Dublin, not going to name the bank but its one of the biggest. Anyways his brother was telling him that Friday of last week he happened upon in his place of work through the course of his duties a room full to the brim of freshly printed brand new minted punts?? it wasnt a small amout of them he said it was a massive amount of them. Are we still printing punts and if so why? thought that strange myself now so does he but there you go sry I dont want to take the thread off topic and if thats a non-relevant thing to bring up I apologise in advance:)

Monty Burnz

WakeUp wrote: »

Have no idea of the relevance of this but was talking to my next door neighbour earlier this evening who's brother works in one of the major banks here in Dublin, not going to name the bank but its one of the biggest. Anyways his brother was telling him that Friday of last week he happened upon in his place of work through the course of his duties a room full to the brim of freshly printed brand new minted punts??

That's not far off the money for this thread (excuse the pun! ) but that sounds a bit urban myth-ish. I don't see why punts would be distributed to banks a minute before it was absolutely necessary - the chances of keeping it secret would be zero, and there would be massive panic as everyone tries to withdraw their euros from the banks before the government confiscates them and turns them into (much, much less valuable) Irish pounds.

WakeUp

Monty Burnz wrote: »

That's not far off the money for this thread (excuse the pun! ) but that sounds a bit urban myth-ish. I don't see why punts would be distributed to banks a minute before it was absolutely necessary - the chances of keeping it secret would be zero, and there would be massive panic as everyone tries to withdraw their euros from the banks before the government confiscates them and turns them into (much, much less valuable) Irish pounds.

Im not sure Monty he has no reason to lie to me but I have to take him at his word on what he told me I have no way to verify it and neither does he its well 3rd maybe 4th hand information, I agree with everything you are saying there for the reasons you have outlined it wouldnt make sense to have them unless something was coming and even if they did have them you would expect them to keep it under wraps, like I said though I found it strange myself and so did he why we would be even printing punts in 2011 I agree anyways maybe its nothing just thought I would add it too the thread:)

mrsdewinter

I saw the original post in AH, OP, and while the discussion got a little side-tracked, I thought it raised a couple of interesting points. For instance, somebody quoted - I think - a Sindo piece saying that on foot of the now-infamous Irish Times letter from a struggling father, the local VdeP has been trying in vain to track him down...
In an aside, it notes that the name published 'is believed' not to be the man's real identity. Was that made clear in the original letter?

Monty Burnz

mrsdewinter wrote: »

In an aside, it notes that the name published 'is believed' not to be the man's real identity. Was that made clear in the original letter?

No, it wasn't. Usually, if a letter is personal and the author does not want their identity revealed, a person will sign it with their name but request it to be kept private. At the end of the letter, the newspaper will write 'name and address with editor' or something similar.

That was not done in this case, which is suspicious too.

Here's the letter:

Sir, – As I write this letter I am hoping that sleep can provide me with some escape from the anxiety and pain that the economic situation is wreaking on me and my family.

Until recently I have been able to meet my mortgage repayments and provide for my young children. At this juncture, seeing as the part-time work on which I depended has entirely ceased, I have found myself and my loved ones having to cope with a new torment – hunger.

Today I have had nothing to give my children only bread and cereal. My dole payment is completely servicing my mortgage and my savings have run dry on essentials. I dread what each day will bring.

The wolf that I have been keeping from the door has finally moved in. – Yours, etc,

MP Mac DOMHNAILL,

Cathair na Sailigh,

Traigh Lí, Co Chiarraí.

A poster from another website compiled this list of problems with this letter and other information that came from this MP Mac Domhnaill:

1) despite giving a name and address in a reasonably small town, no one in the locality seems to know the man or his family;
2) a once off incident of a child eating cardboard is not really a sign of poverty. Kids eat the strangest of things out of curiosity. It doesn't mean that this is a regular occurence borne out of poverty;
3) what sort of a monster would pay their mortgage over feeding their children;
4) his mortgage is either sub-prime or else he is stuck paying the original payments despite a 50k pay-off. Surely he could renegotiate this without it affecting his precious pride;
5) he grossly underestimates his weekly dole payment (presumably because he gets 188 while his wife gets 300 or so for the children);
6) he hasn't tried to avail of Mortgage Interest Suppliment;
7) he hasn't considered selling up and moving to an area with better employment prospects;
8 ) he seems to be one of the few (if any) full time permanent PS employees who have lost their jobs;
9) surely after 10 years in the PS he would have some form of pension or redundancy payment, and I suspect it would be pretty large;

With thanks to JohnnySkeleton.

mrsdewinter

Thanks for that - I ended up looking up Friday's paper to confirm my impression that the letter was presented as a regular Letter to the Editor.
And thanks for that list of concerns. I have to say I had misgivings about the mortgage repayment figures as they were presented in the follow-up article at the weekend.
Grr.

runway16

Monty Burnz wrote: »

That's not far off the money for this thread (excuse the pun! ) but that sounds a bit urban myth-ish. I don't see why punts would be distributed to banks a minute before it was absolutely necessary - the chances of keeping it secret would be zero, and there would be massive panic as everyone tries to withdraw their euros from the banks before the government confiscates them and turns them into (much, much less valuable) Irish pounds.

I do agree there is a hint of "urban myth" about it, but I have heard of punts being printed also. To be be fair, it would be remiss of the government NOT to prepare for any such scenario given the complete political vacuum that seems to exist at the highest levels of the EU regarding the EU debt issue.