Church levy

fedor.2.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/18/dublin-catholics-levy-church-bankruptcy

Reparations for child abuse victims and the recession have brought Ireland's largest Catholic diocese to the brink of bankruptcy, according to a leaked document from a group of priests.

The paper from the Council of Priests concludes that many parishes in Dublin are close to a state of financial collapse.

It cites the ongoing cost of compensation payments made to victims of clerical abuse, the death of the Celtic Tiger economic boom and falling numbers going to mass in the Irish capital.

The document, which was leaked to this week's edition of the Irish Catholic newspaper, proposes imposing a parish-based levy on Catholic families living in Dublin that would raise up to €3m (£2.6m) a year.

The priests also recommend cuts in the wages of religious orders and lay people working for the church in line with public pay cuts imposed to trim back Ireland's massive national debt.

A spokeswoman for the Dublin archdiocese has confirmed the existence of the document, saying it was aimed at addressing the economic realities facing the archdiocese. She said making no changes would have serious financial consequences.

Two years ago a damning report into clerical sex abuse found that the diocese had covered up the activities of 46 priests accused of abusing children.

It found the church placed its own reputation above the protection of children in its care.

It also said state authorities including the Garda Síochána facilitated the cover-up by allowing the Catholic church to operate outside the law.

Some neck. That is all.

grizzly

Perhaps victims of clerical abuse should be exempt? You should only have to be fúcked by the Church once.

stupidusername

hold on now.

They fiddle with little children, cover it up, deny any responsibility, and now because their business is failing, they're going to force people to pay to keep them going?

I've been St Peters etc in Rome, and some how I don't quite believe that the Catholic Church is going bankrupt. even if it is, why should anybody care? Same as any other business, if you're not making enough to keep yourselves afloat, you should be left to go under.

Happyman42

Brilliant idea...let the so called 'good' but silent Catholics pay.
Maybe a levy will make them realise that this is just a sick business preying on their faith.

mikemac

I guess Dublin will be looking for a bailout from everywhere else in Ireland so

You give us your tax money, we'll let you have diocese funds

Sanjuro

I would imagine this levy would be on a purely voluntary basis. In which case, good luck to them. Since numbers in pews are plummeting, so are donations. If it's not voluntary... well....

Amhran Nua

They actually do levy a church tax in Germany, and it gets paid too.

They have it backwards however - we need to be levying a tax on the church, not for the church. Let them sell some of the tens of billions in prime city centre property they have, that should cover the bills nicely.

Of course that's the one thing you'll never hear these padres talking about.

Take it away from them!

Dravokivich

All out of indulgences are they?

Dyr

Take away their tax exemption...introduce a kiddie fiddler fan club tax, where you have to sign up for it and give charlie church a cut of your pay packet

Mark200

stupidusername wrote: »

hold on now.

They fiddle with little children, cover it up, deny any responsibility, and now because their business is failing, they're going to force people to pay to keep them going?

I've been St Peters etc in Rome, and some how I don't quite believe that the Catholic Church is going bankrupt. even if it is, why should anybody care? Same as any other business, if you're not making enough to keep yourselves afloat, you should be left to go under.

There's a difference between the Catholic Church in Rome and individual dioceses. I believe other dioceses in the world have gone bankrupt before.

Of course I'm far from sympathetic.

grizzly

stupidusername wrote: »

I've been St Peters etc in Rome, and some how I don't quite believe that the Catholic Church is going bankrupt.

They're not going bankrupt. Local dioceses are run like a McDonalds franchises – they get the right to use all the branding, but the flow of money is a one-way street back to Rome. If one fails being profitable, they'll let it go.

stupidusername

fair enough, i got it wrong so.

Son Of A Vidic

grizzly wrote: »

They're not going bankrupt. Local dioceses are run like a McDonalds franchises – they get the right to use all the branding, but the flow of money is a one-way street back to Rome. If one fails being profitable, they'll let it go.

And here was me foolishly thinking it was a church of Christ, when it's obviously a corporation.

jester77

Amhran Nua wrote: »

They actually do levy a church tax in Germany, and it gets paid too.

Not mandatory though. You can declare yourself non-religious and you don't have to pay it. Also means you can't use the church for christenings, communions, wedding, funerals, etc. which is fair enough.

Not sure how you would get around this in Ireland as Catholicism is now an opt-in only subscription with no possibility for unsubscribing, bit like a scrupulous spam mailer!

Barrt2

They also changed canon law so now you cant defect from the church. damn

hardCopy

Mark200 wrote: »

I believe other dioceses in the world have gone bankrupt before.

We live in hope.

CreepingDeath

They "leak" a financial report, but are more than capable of covering up the truth about child abuse for decades ?

This isn't a leak, it's a Rome sanctioned press release / spin.

Amhran Nua

grizzly wrote: »

They're not going bankrupt. Local dioceses are run like a McDonalds franchises – they get the right to use all the branding, but the flow of money is a one-way street back to Rome. If one fails being profitable, they'll let it go.

Weird that you should mention that - McDonalds is estimated to be one of the single largest property holders in the world; the franchise holder pays off the mortgage for them, they keep the property.

The only difference between that and the Catholic church is McDonalds pays rates and taxes.

Min

A diocese is like an independent republic in the church, each is run separately, the church is not run as one big organisation despite what some think.

This is why it is upto the Catholic people of the diocese of Dublin to pay for their own church, which they pay for through their offerings at mass and other donations.

Biggins

They want to charge a tax - when they don't pay taxes to the state themselves.
...Its just depressing what they are getting away with - and whats worse our elected TD's, running our country are continuing to let them do so!

Cianos

Please please collapse...please!

I Heart Internet

CreepingDeath wrote: »

They "leak" a financial report, but are more than capable of covering up the truth about child abuse for decades ?

This isn't a leak, it's a Rome sanctioned press release / spin.

Who are "They"?? Are "They" like the "The Man"??

Lot of ****e talked about this discussion document from an organisation (the Association of Catholic Priests) which is a relatively small association (several hundred) of individual priests with zero power to change anything.

They absolutely do not represent dioceses or the vatican. Nor, in fairness to them, do they claim to.

Biggins

Barrt2 wrote: »

They also changed canon law so now you cant defect from the church. damn

If someone would be willing to offer free legal service - I'd be willing to stand up and challenge that.
I was given no choice at birth/christening - I want officially out! SERIOUSLY!

krudler

be hilarious watching all the cafeteria Catholics squirm when asked to pay up for the church they claim to be a part of.

anyhoo the church at this stage can just fook off, a relic with no place in modern society

Spacedog

The RCC don't pay for child abuse settlements. the tax payer does because the government gave the RCC a limited liability insurance policy for financial damages from child abuse cases, which they quickly exceeded.

Cianos

I wonder how much they're estimating the levy would have to be to get them back in financial order.

Most people only use the church as a venue now and don't set foot in it in between special occasions. The cost of using that venue for these people could go way up, I wonder how well their part timer faith would hold up then.

dvpower

Spacedog wrote: »

The RCC don't pay for child abuse settlements. the tax payer does because the government gave the RCC a limited liability insurance policy for financial damages from child abuse cases, which they quickly exceeded.

... and failed to pay the insurance premiums.