Former ILDA Chairman admits "ESB's €75,500 staff 'spoilt'"

dermo88

I am sure many of you remember a certain Brendan Ogle, who I have expressed rather vitriolic views on before on this forum due to his actions during the ILDA (Irish Locomotive Drivers Association) dispute of 2002.

Suffice to say, when you pay your 12% increase in utility bills later this year, spare a thought for the poor oppressed workers at the E.S.B as they march to work shackled by the chains of capitalism singing "We'll keep the red flag flying" on €75,500 per annum!!!!

Its enough to make me sick. It smacks of the worst brand of Champagne socialism.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/esbs-euro75500-staff-spoilt-admits-union-chief-2859455.html

foggy_lad

The average salary is nearer €94,000 when the employers pension contributions are taken into account.

Hilly Bill

How do you work that out?

ro2

dermo88 wrote: »

Its enough to make me sick. It smacks of the worst brand of Champagne socialism.

It doesn't smack of paying highly qualified people to do a very important job?

AlekSmart

ro2 wrote: »

It doesn't smack of paying highly qualified people to do a very important job?

Pooh Pooh to you Ro2...of course not...absolutely impossible,not for consideration under any circumstances....we'll have no more of this talk now ye hear ?

BTW there's a much fuller discussion here....worth merging this one into it,Mods ..?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056370066

dowlingm

I don't have a specific problem with highly qualified professional staff getting a lot of money, especially if on top of it they are front line people who are responsible to hooking up high voltage lines in the teeth of or the aftermath of seriously unpleasant weather.

On the other hand, the fellas who hung around shut down peat plants like Ferbane for months and months on full pay...

shamwari

I have no qualms with professionals being paid the going rate for their trade. However if some in the ESB are abusing their position to extort excessive levels of pay then that needs tackling without delay.

But lets be clear here: the impending increases in energy costs have far more to do with global increases in oil and gas costs generally than trade union extortion. I was in Scotland in June last and the complaints then in the media there were of increases way in excess of 12%....

coylemj

shamwari wrote: »

I have no qualms with professionals being paid the going rate for their trade.

The only professionals who are paid the 'going rate' for their trade are self-employed people who have to compete for business in an open market. We're talking about plumbers, solicitors, electricians, architects, painters etc.

If people in the ESB were today being paid the 'going rate' for what they do, their pay would have been halved in the past two years given the contraction in the economy. However with the protection of aggressive trades union leaders like Brendan Ogle, they can thumb their noses at the notion of being paid the 'going rate' for what they do.

The ESB is simply an extension of the public service which negotiated excessive pay rises during the boom. The difference between civil servants and the ESB however is that teachers and civil servants can't switch off the lights and bring the country to a halt, therein lies the problem.

n97 mini

The video in question is here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrpUUzRPPAo

It's interesting to note that Brendan says the unions in Ireland are extremely right wing. Not really what Connolly and Larkin had in mind.

bk

coylemj wrote: »

The only professionals who are paid the 'going rate' for their trade are self-employed people who have to compete for business in an open market. We're talking about plumbers, solicitors, electricians, architects, painters etc.

Er, that isn't true.

Anyone who works in the private sector are paid the 'going rate'.

Working in IT, I know if I wasn't paid the going rate, I'd quit and move to another company that did.

Similar some (but not all) positions in a company like the ESB are highly technical and experienced people would be in demand around the world.

shamwari

coylemj wrote: »

The only professionals who are paid the 'going rate' for their trade are self-employed people who have to compete for business in an open market. We're talking about plumbers, solicitors, electricians, architects, painters etc.

If people in the ESB were today being paid the 'going rate' for what they do, their pay would have been halved in the past two years given the contraction in the economy. However with the protection of aggressive trades union leaders like Brendan Ogle, they can thumb their noses at the notion of being paid the 'going rate' for what they do.

Like BK, I disagree too. If it were the case that skilled labour was available elsewhere, that labour would be in the process of being utilised by now. No union, no matter how powerful it is, would be able to argue or defend itself before bodies like the LRC or Labour Court for blacking / blocking such labour, nor for seeking gratuitous pay rises or upholding unsustainable work practices. The ESB may not have had pay cuts (yet) like the civil service, but that is not to say that very very difficult times lie ahead for them. Ask anyone working in the ESB if this is or isn't the case.

Besides, the advent of competition in the energy sector from alternative suppliers and electrical interconnectors mean that the days of a few union hotheads plunging the country into the dark ages are over.

n97 mini

bk wrote: »

Er, that isn't true.

Anyone who works in the private sector are paid the 'going rate'.

Working in IT, I know if I wasn't paid the going rate, I'd quit and move to another company that did.

The going rate in most IT role has dropped from where it was 3 or 4 years ago.

coylemj's point, and Brendan Ogle's, is that for ESB staff the only way has been up. "What were good jobs are now great jobs"

n97 mini

shamwari wrote: »

The ESB may not have had pay cuts (yet) like the civil service, but that is not to say that very very difficult times lie ahead for them. Ask anyone working in the ESB if this is or isn't the case.

With no less than five trade unions representing them and a Minister who has announced that the ESB will get state protection from being broken-up, it is difficult for the lay man to see how they're going to face "very very difficult times".

As of June 2009 we had the highest (pre tax) unit cost for electricity. This is damaging our competitiveness.

shamwari

n97 mini wrote: »

With no less than five trade unions representing them and a Minister who has announced that the ESB will get state protection from being broken-up, it is difficult for the lay man to see how they're going to face "very very difficult times".

They are being broken up. They are facing competition, and their monopoly is gone. Jobs will be shed. And as for the ministers implied protection, nobody is gonna take that seriously when they are being ripend for a sell off

n97 mini wrote: »

As of June 2009 we had the highest (pre tax) unit cost for electricity. This is damaging our competitiveness.

That was over two years ago. And when you say "we", who are you comparing the ESB to?

-Chris-

Thread closed as it's got nothing to do with C&T.

AlekSmart wrote: »

BTW there's a much fuller discussion here....worth merging this one into it,Mods ..?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056370066

Thanks AlekSmart. @everyone, please use this thread to discuss this issue further.
For future reference, could you report the post/thread also? If you ask "Mods, can you...?" in the middle of a thread, there's more of a likelihood it'll be missed.