Do we deserve success?

LuckyLloyd

A quick glance at the thread titles present on the front page of this forum indicate that a lot of people are unhappy with our preparation for the tournament. So unhappy infact, that they have reached a point where they would throw the coaching staff under the bus at the earliest opportunity - irrespective of how well or poorly we perform in New Zealand.

Then, when you read into the threads, people are also decrying individual players, scrutinising every mistake, etc. In Landsdowne Road today with the game still in the balance, droves of people exited their seats when it began to rain.

So it leads me to wonder: do we as a nation (or rugby fans of a nation at least) deserve anything to cheer about over the coming weeks? This is our squad and coaching staff. There was no lack of effort today, and a bunch of honest performances in all departments. I may not agree with every decision over the past four years (understatement) and I may not have been delighted with every individual performance (again, understatement) but there is no doubt that everyone involved since 2007 have been trying.

If we can't get behind them properly before a ball has been kicked down there, I'm not sure we deserve anything more than another Lens or Paris type defeat.

mayfire

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

A quick glance at the thread titles present on the front page of this forum indicate that a lot of people are unhappy with our preparation for the tournament. So unhappy infact, that they have reached a point where they would throw the coaching staff under the bus at the earliest opportunity - irrespective of how well or poorly we perform in New Zealand.

Then, when you read into the threads, people are also decrying individual players, scrutinising every mistake, etc. In Landsdowne Road today with the game still in the balance, droves of people exited their seats when it began to rain.

So it leads me to wonder: do we as a nation (or rugby fans of a nation at least) deserve anything to cheer about over the coming weeks? This is our squad and coaching staff. There was no lack of effort today, and a bunch of honest performances in all departments. I may not agree with every decision over the past four years (understatement) and I may not have been delighted with every individual performance (again, understatement) but there is no doubt that everyone involved since 2007 have been trying.

If we can't get behind them properly before a ball has been kicked down there, I'm not sure we deserve anything more than another Lens or Paris type defeat.

Fair post but in defence of exiting seats today, I was there with my wife and 2 kids and when the rain came down, they got saturated so I suggested they go inside until shower passed which it did. They came back out again and so did most around me. I was thinking of kids and sniffles with back to school and meant no disrespect to the boys. That was a terrible shower so I assumed most just ran for cover and not a reflection of perfomance on field?

MrDerp

No we deserve a performance. Ultimately we probably won't be good enough for a semi final. But we can do our quarter final thing one of two ways: gutsy or gutless. Same result, different perspective.

Performances are everything for me. I want to enjoy the world cup. I don't expect to win it.

tolosenc

If it was the best, but average, players we could offer giving it their all and losing week in week out, I'd be right behind them. But what we have is some great players who are mismanaged and underperforming and losing matches they should be winning, and would be winning if they had any sense of direction.

People are totally right in calling for the coaching staff to go. It's a position with responsibility attached, thus you take more than your fair share of the praise when stuff goes right, but you also get absolutely landed in it if stuff goes awry (unless you're employed in the public sector).

matthew8

We have the best club fans in Europe and we would have the best national fans if the team didn't underachieve the vast majority of the time. We deserve success certainly, and we also deserve for the team not to go into every world cup in the worst form they've been in in the last 4 years.

Hagz

Don't think the reaction on these threads is too over the top to be honest. NZ, SA, Aus, and French fans expect the best from their team, I don't see why we shouldn't. Fair enough if they had played out of their skin, but we've seen the level that these guys can perform to, and yesterday was totally un-acceptable.

matthew8

Hagz wrote: »

Don't think the reaction on these threads is too over the top to be honest. NZ, SA, Aus, and French fans expect the best from their team, I don't see why we shouldn't. Fair enough if they had played out of their skin, but we've seen the level that these guys can perform to, and yesterday was totally un-acceptable.

Too true. We have world class players. Joe Schmidt can utilise them, so why can't Ireland? Leinster seem to play rugby far far better than Ireland, though Isa and Strauss play a part in this.

It's been a long time since I felt that Leinster's performance was unacceptable, but it seems I feel it every single time Ireland play.

Fight_Night

matthew8 wrote: »

We have the best club fans in Europe and we would have the best national fans if the team didn't underachieve the vast majority of the time. We deserve success certainly, and we also deserve for the team not to go into every world cup in the worst form they've been in in the last 4 years.

I think the French as a whole are the best supporters of rugby in Europe, well the most vocal anyway.

jacothelad

matthew8 wrote: »

We have the best club fans in Europe and we would have the best national fans if the team didn't underachieve the vast majority of the time. We deserve success certainly, and we also deserve for the team not to go into every world cup in the worst form they've been in in the last 4 years.

Sorry, but that is rubbish. A rugby fan is a rugby fan. I'd suggest that a guy who unfailingly turns out to watch Connacht year in, year out is exactly the same as a fan of Toulouse, Leicester, Aironi, Glasgow etc. What makes you claim that we are something special? There is a fraternal link between fans in our game. We are brothers in the game itself. Some latter day converts to the terraces of our sides are besmirching the game and it's history and reputation.

jacothelad

Fight_Night wrote: »

I think the French as a whole are the best supporters of rugby in Europe, well the most vocal anyway.

Although they are prone to turn on their team when things go badly.

CatFromHue

jacothelad wrote: »

Although they are prone to turn on their team when things go badly.

Just like what we're doing now!

matthew8

jacothelad wrote: »

Sorry, but that is rubbish. A rugby fan is a rugby fan. I'd suggest that a guy who unfailingly turns out to watch Connacht year in, year out is exactly the same as a fan of Toulouse, Leicester, Aironi, Glasgow etc. What makes you claim that we are something special? There is a fraternal link between fans in our game. We are brothers in the game itself. Some latter day converts to the terraces of our sides are besmirching the game and it's history and reputation.

Well we have the most respectful in Europe certainly, we hold the record for crowds in the heineken cup pool games and overall, we send more supporters abroad than other countries (going by Irish crowds being the dominant presence in 4 of the last 6 finals), and on the way back from the Millenium stadium Northampton fans were telling me how they were inpressed that we didn't lose our voices when the team was losing badly.

But if you insist that all rugby fans are the same, then can we at least agree on that we have the most rugby fans (and by that I mean people going to the games) per person in europe?

Piliger

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

do we as a nation (or rugby fans of a nation at least) deserve anything to cheer about over the coming weeks?

The team themselves do not 'deserve' any success. No sports team 'deserves' anything. They only get what they work for on the field and what their skills bring them.

On Saturday they got what they deserved. A walloping !

But having paid significant prices last saturday the fans deserve a hell of a lot better than THEY got ! and the fans of the Irish Rugby Team deserve a hell of a lot better when the team goes to the WC as highly paid professional athletes who keep telling us they will win something !

Other than beating England in Spring, it has been a steep decline for almost 2 years now.

Larbre34

You only reap what you sow, and the results we've had over the past 2 years are more or less what we deserve.

What we're seeing here is not the outcome of the margins of preparation between training, conditioning, rest and game time, its the lack of Irish players to compete physically across the field. The few guys that could do it are nearing the end of their careers and their future replacements now in the provinces are too light for a game which is becoming more about 2 props and 13 flankers. Where do you see an Irish Rougerie, Tuilagi, Sonny Bill or Jamie Roberts coming? No offence to the individual prospects of Danny Barnes or Andrew Conway or Eoin O'Malley but they just cant compete with that.

The provinces have done well as the gaps in requirements for their sides have been filled with excellent, expensive, foreign replacements. This policy comes from the Union as well as the Branches, and it is now beginning to have a devastating effect on national team prospects. The provinces may continue too see glory with Nacewa, Howlett, Botha et al, but it could be a generation until Ireland sees any sort of successful run again, and as with Trappatoni in the football, theres not a whole lot Declan Kidney and his coaches can do about that.

skregs

jacothelad wrote: »

Sorry, but that is rubbish. A rugby fan is a rugby fan. I'd suggest that a guy who unfailingly turns out to watch Connacht year in, year out is exactly the same as a fan of Toulouse, Leicester, Aironi, Glasgow etc.

I'd suggest that a guy who unfailingly turns out to watch Connacht year in, year out is a man who doesn't know what time the dog racing starts at