First Real Close Call Today

skerry

So as the title suggests I came very close to getting floored today. Basically I was pegging along in the bike lane when up ahead I see a car in the middle of the road trying to turn right and a car sat right behind it. The second car had no left indicator on so I presumed he was going to wait for the other car to make his turn before proceeding. Wrong. I was approaching the rear of the second car when the idiot behind the wheel decides to overtake the turning car on the left, no indicator and obviously didn't check his mirror as he pulled across a bike lane. Pretty much ran me off the road at which point I had to mount the kerb at pace. Amazed I didn't come off the bike. A$$hole just speeds on up the road after I had a quick stunned roar or two at him.

Just wondering what folks on here reactions to such situations are. I was too busy trying not to end up on my a$$ to get the reg and from my experience with dangerous driver situations the answer you get from the law is "Are you going to press charges, and if not stop calling us" (or something like that). Only other alternative I see was to try catch him at the next roundabout if possible (100 metres up the road) and politely tell him to take more care as he damn near sent me into a wall. I'm aware these things happen all the time and its not a special case, just wondering what other cyclists do when it happens to them.

ashleey

Got brushed by the 60 foot trailer of an artic in Kilkybegs yesterday as he swung back in to avoid hitting oncoming traffic as we came down the hill into the town. I got in front of him at the junction and threatened him to get out of the cab. Luckily for him he didn't and luckily for me he didn't because I would be in jail. It's no solution but I couldn't help it. Everyone was looking on in amazement. Unless the guards see it happen it's your word against theirs. Let's be realistic I would be in jail for assault and his dangerous driving would never be proven.

petethedrummer

skerry wrote: »

so I presumed

Presume the worst and ride accordingly.

funnights74

As you say Skerry it happened so fast you didn't have time for to get the car reg, had a few close calls myself and i have had plenty of flashes of red mist.On one occasion i, like yourself had to detour onto a footpath and narrowly missed a mum pushing a buggy, so wordt case scenario, who is at fault under those circumstances?
But as Pet the drummer has posted always assume the worst and behave accordingly. So to steal a quote from hill street blues Be careful out there.

Lumen

Reverse the situation L-R and consider it again.

If you're coming up to an obstruction as the third road user, you have to expect the road user in front to perform an overtake.

galwaycyclist

ashleey wrote: »

Got brushed by the 60 foot trailer of an artic in Kilkybegs yesterday as he swung back in to avoid hitting oncoming traffic as we came down the hill into the town. <snip>
.

I had a somewhat similar incident recently with a guy in a merc and I reacted badly.

With HGVs though we need to apply different ground rules. Some HGV and bus drivers are extremely skilled but can still find it hard to judge when its safe to pull back in after passsing a cyclist. Best tactic is to back off and let them go, cover your brakes and stop pedalling so they are clear of you in the shortest time.

galwaycyclist

skerry wrote: »

So as the title suggests I came very close to getting floored today. Basically I was pegging along in the bike lane

One of the things the people who put in bike lanes don't tell you is that in typical urban situations they are associated with increased risk of collision between cyclists and motor vehicles.

You got off lightly in that I have list of cyclists who were killed by HGVs turning left accross cycle lanes.

Out of interest, if you had been using a hard shoulder instead of a cycle lane how would you have approached the situation?

Ryder

ashleey wrote: »

Got brushed by the 60 foot trailer of an artic in Kilkybegs yesterday as he swung back in to avoid hitting oncoming traffic as we came down the hill into the town. I got in front of him at the junction and threatened him to get out of the cab. Luckily for him he didn't and luckily for me he didn't because I would be in jail. It's no solution but I couldn't help it. Everyone was looking on in amazement. Unless the guards see it happen it's your word against theirs. Let's be realistic I would be in jail for assault and his dangerous driving would never be proven.

Happened me crossing the east link to sandymount yesterday. Was the longest 2 seconds of my life as the trailer brushed my jacket and the rear axle closed in on me....... Could have caught him at the roundabout, docks etc, but there's never anypoint. Unless you're killed/badly hurt the police will take no action and to be fair its usually not malicious. But .........im never cycling across the eastlink again.......

ashleey

Agreed. It was the biggest moment of panic on my bike. He wasn't malicious, he was just driving too fast on a narrow road unsuitable for his vehicle and didn't worry too much about me. At the time I wanted to give him a kicking but it wouldn't have solved anything. If I had time to prepare I would have pulled over to let him overtake but he flew past me and swerved in. Always assume the worse and you'll never be disappointed.

tomasrojo

I pull over to the side an awful lot and let people go. I dress it up as politeness and feel better as a result.

All that business with HGVs must be terrifying. Haven't had a similar experience yet.

triggermortis

get a helmet-cam so you have a record of who did what, and probably reg no.'s. Save a lot of hassle later on.

Satanta

I am new to cycling so would always be relatively defensive and slow off in that case. I'm not so sure the driver would have to indicate left un that case, if the car in front was indicating right. Not saying they were right. They should have checked the mirrors especially as there was a cycle lane. how many drivers do though?

rp

Stay out of the bike lanes, you are c. 30% more likely to be killed or injured in a bike lane than riding on the road proper, and cases like this explain why.

macnab

Last week an old guy in a van drove off a footpath as I aproached him, I thought "cheeky Fu**er" and moved over to my right to allow him more room. He then did a full U-Turn right in front of me and drove on none the wiser as I made every noise known to mankind.
The next day I was on a national road and saw a van coming from my right on a minor road. I had a quick flashback to the previous day and eased off the power just in case he did something stupid. He never stopped at the stop sign, he just hung a right and carried on in the same direction as I was going. If I had not reacted I would have been involved in a crash.

So the incident from the previous day saved my bacon.

Remember every close call and try to gain wisdom from them.

Oh and just to add a bit of spice, I was riding a 750cc motorbike at the time with my dips on. During each incident I was well placed on the road for visability and doing a reasonable speed.
I have been cycling and riding motorbikes for over 30 years and I always try to expect other road users to do stupid things, that way I am prepared for the worst.

Rovi

A friend of mine was killed while cycling through a local town a good few years ago, when he was crushed under the left-rear wheels of the trailer section of a double cattle truck.
The truck carried on and was never traced.
This was in the days before widespread CCTV, so no-one knows what circumstances led up to the incident, and the few witnesses to the aftermath were so traumatised that they were of very little help to the Gardai.
There was considerable high feeling in the area for some time afterwards, and the Gardai stopped and talked to every cattle truck passing through for several weeks, but these enquiries never came to anything.

I strongly suspect that the truck driver never even knew what happened.

Bearing this in mind and having occasionally driven long/awkward vehicles and gained some appreciation of the difficulties involved in manoeuvring them, I always give them a wide berth and plenty of space.
"He had the right of way" is of little use carved on a headstone.

a148pro

OP you were undoubtedly in the right but you are much better off replacing any sense of self-righteousness or indignation with awareness of other road users and an expectation that they will do something stupid. If you try and consciously do this you will have a much safer cycling experience.

I cycle most places but drive occasionally and this is the kind of thing I'd do by accident - as a driver you're conscious of motorised traffic and once you know there's no lane inside you you'll do this manouver without checking your mirrors, forgetting about cyclists. I've done this and been (rightly) berated afterwards.

So next time you approach this situation brake a little in advance and go through cautiously. Its a pain but it beats a serious injury, damage to your bike or worse.

Lawdie

tomasrojo wrote: »

I pull over to the side an awful lot and let people go. I dress it up as politeness and feel better as a result.

This is the right advice. You (most likely) cannot win in a crash between your bike and big metal vehicles. It beguiles me to say this but as one other rider does ease back. You might reduce your training or get to your destination by 5 minutes but so be it. As an optimist I don't believe bus/car/truck drivers set out in the morning thinking, today I'll hit a cyclist. It must be noted as a cyclist/driver neither side can claim full innocence when it comes to road safety.

There is no one solution answer but keep going and be safe for the both of you.

Mint Sauce

Have had the exact same OP, had to escape into a drive way and bunny hop the kerb (never tried before on my road bike :eek:). I got a mouthfull of abuse from the driver when I expressed my anger at his driving.

Sometimes you just have to get on with it and realise it not your self your looking out for, but everyone else.

Glad to hear you escaped unscathed, and put it down to experience.

Wicklowrider

I've got traffic watch on my contact list. I've had two good experiences of calling them. One incident resulted in the local Gardai contacting me within 15 minutes of my calling traffic watch. The Gardai had already spoken to the driver and his transport manager within that 15 minutes. The other incident turned out to be a misunderstanding and I told traffic watch to forget it. Moments after hanging up the Gardai rang me to ensure I was OK and wasn't under duress! Costs nothing to have their number 1890205805 and you don't have to give them your details ( I did) and they do not have your number unless you give it to them. If you do call them they'll explain their procedures which I think are very fair.

skerry

petethedrummer wrote: »

Presume the worst and ride accordingly.

I always do. But I was watching the guy the whole time as I approached and the guy turning right was just about to turn, so figured the guy behind was gonna hang on if he hadn't turned at that stage. Figured wrong I guess

skerry

funnights74 wrote: »

As you say Skerry it happened so fast you didn't have time for to get the car reg, had a few close calls myself and i have had plenty of flashes of red mist.On one occasion i, like yourself had to detour onto a footpath and narrowly missed a mum pushing a buggy, so wordt case scenario, who is at fault under those circumstances?
But as Pet the drummer has posted always assume the worst and behave accordingly. So to steal a quote from hill street blues Be careful out there.

I was just thinking that after it happened. If there was someone one the footpath there's not much I could have done to avoid them as I hopped onto it. Happened so quickly.

nitrogen

Sorry to hear about your incident OP.

I also had a shock today – nearly got hit with a car passing me out in bus lane, missing me by centimetres. I don't understand why cars are allowed in bus lanes and to park in cycle lanes on weekends, here in London. It really affected me (Ruined my morning), and made me quite angry. Cycled after car, caught up and just wanted to say to driver, "pass out cyclists in future." I ended up passing it out (30 km speed limit), which ticked off the driver – horn blowing. Slowed, to allow car pass on my inside, to try and speak to driver, but car stopped and driver's husband got out to shout threatening abuse. It shook me up. Horrible experience. For me I guess maybe I shouldn't have lost my cool and ignored it.

But next time, try and get plates.

Safe riding!

rollingscone

With regards to the car undertaking on the left, that is an illegal manoeuvre per the Irish rules of the road.

The burden of responsibility is always on the driver manoeuvring out of the lane/exit (I'd assume this goes for cyclists too) so in terms of having a case you certainly would.

Also if someone caused you to mount the footpath and cause damage or injury to another party they can be held partially or fully responsible depending on whether your actions contributed to the situation.

Independent verification is the best thing to have, so if someone causes or nearly causes an accident and you want to do something about it, stop and ask for witnesses.

As far as the courts are concerned It's up to a driver to adjust according to their vehicle and the road conditions. There are literally no excuses.

And do report dangerous driving to the Gardai (or maybe Roadwatch) it depends largely on the individual Garda how much it will be pursued but it might not be the first or last complaint about that particular driver/vehicle/fleet.

So your inconvenience might make the difference between someone who makes excuses for their dangerous driving carrying on regardless or losing their licence.

pmcd22

as both a cyclist and a driver. so looking at some antics drivers get up too you realise when your on the bike that a driver can get up to anything.

For the OP. like in that instance, I would read that situation as the driver will look to undertake if the first car is taking a turn to the right. i will undertake if it is clear to do so. I guess in this instance the second driver slowed down and began to wait for the first car to turn. The first car was taking ages to turn so the second car got fed up waiting and probably just had a glance in the wing mirror and not have a look over his shoulder to see that blindspot had you.

As previous posters had said, its not like they set out to knock ya off the bike even though some look like they do. Space to overtake on a clear straight and only leave small space like if its an art to see how close they can get to ya.

I haven't had any knocks so thank god for that. on a tough road here and then my country lanes are loaded with trucks, tractors and all sorts of heavy machinery.

skerry

pmcd22 wrote: »

as both a cyclist and a driver. so looking at some antics drivers get up too you realise when your on the bike that a driver can get up to anything.

For the OP. like in that instance, I would read that situation as the driver will look to undertake if the first car is taking a turn to the right. i will undertake if it is clear to do so. I guess in this instance the second driver slowed down and began to wait for the first car to turn. The first car was taking ages to turn so the second car got fed up waiting and probably just had a glance in the wing mirror and not have a look over his shoulder to see that blindspot had you.

As previous posters had said, its not like they set out to knock ya off the bike even though some look like they do. Space to overtake on a clear straight and only leave small space like if its an art to see how close they can get to ya.

I haven't had any knocks so thank god for that. on a tough road here and then my country lanes are loaded with trucks, tractors and all sorts of heavy machinery.

I know drivers are only human and these things happen. I'm sure he didn't try put me on my ar$e on purpose. I was watching the situation from a bit back the road as I approached and the driver turning right was about to make the turn so I figured it was safe enough to pass. Its just the fact that he obviously didn't 1) check his blind spot, 2) check his mirror, or 3) bother to indicate. If it was one of the above that was overlooked then he might still have had a chance to see me before he moved, but not bothering to do any of them is pretty damn careless driving in my opinion.

I'm generally very cautious of drivers and like to think I can read a situation on the road reasonably well, but there's no accounting for the carelessness of some road users. Also I think there's a fine line between being cautious and overdoing it so you end up ruining your spin on the assumption that the worst will always happen. I'm all for being cautious but I also don't want to have to pull over everytime I see a car do something that might potentially lead to a situation like this, you'd be stopping every few minutes if that was the case.

petethedrummer

skerry wrote: »

Also I think there's a fine line between being cautious and overdoing it so you end up ruining your spin on the assumption that the worst will always happen. I'm all for being cautious but I also don't want to have to pull over everytime I see a car do something that might potentially lead to a situation like this, you'd be stopping every few minutes if that was the case.

You don't have to stop. Just slow down or make yourself more visibie if you think you're in a blind spot. Anyways it won't ruin a good spin, unless you only cycle in urban areas.

skerry

petethedrummer wrote: »

You don't have to stop. Just slow down or make yourself more visibie if you think you're in a blind spot. Anyways it won't ruin a good spin, unless you only cycle in urban areas.

OK slight exaggeration on my part but you know what I'm getting at. Thankfully most of my cycling is on country roads, only have to negotiate town for the first and last few minutes of my spin.

Carverkid

I hit a car, flipped onto the bonnet and slid down the road for about 12 yards one time. Totaled the bike and had some lovely road burn to the bargain aswell. Worst bit of it was the guy who was driving, who had come spinning out of his drive with out looking expected me to pay for a new bonnet! Ha!

cython

rollingscone wrote: »

With regards to the car undertaking on the left, that is an illegal manoeuvre per the Irish rules of the road.

Wrong. Under most circumstances, overtaking on the left is certainly illegal, but there is a proviso in the ROTR (since you cite that yourself) for the situation in the OP as follows:

ROTR wrote:

You may overtake on the left when

You want to go straight ahead when the driver in front of you has moved out and signalled that they intend to turn right.
You have signalled that you intend to turn left.
Traffic in both lanes is moving slowly and traffic in the left-hand lane is moving more quickly than the traffic in the right-hand lane.

Source

However, from the OP, the manner in which the driver performing the overtake on the left behaved was downright dangerous, and the manoeuvre very poorly executed. That being said, I always keep the mantra that looking out for your own mistakes when driving or cycling is the easier part, it's looking out for everyone else's that makes things difficult.

As an example, had I been approaching the scenario that the OP describes in a car, I wouldn't presume to go through a space on the left at speed, and I wouldn't do this on a bike either. Even if both cars had been indicating right, there is nothing to say the second driver wouldn't change his mind and have the same thing arise, so the absence of an indicator should be even more warning. I'm reasonably sure that if you happened on the above in a driving test, not slowing down a bit as you approach the hazard, in order to allow yourself more reaction time would pick up a fault. Now while we thankfully don't have cyclist testing in Ireland, there is no reason we can't/shouldn't apply some of the same approaches for driving safely in traffic to cycling safely in traffic.

Now please don't get me wrong in all the above, I'm not criticising the OP, or saying they are to blame, as they are not. Rather I am just pointing out how/why it could have been avoided, as being right going into the incident is little consolation if you come out of it badly!

Thinkingaboutit

If a car slows inexplicably that's a signal that the driver is to turn and then put on signals. I keep an eye on the wheels of a car if they're to the right.

adamski8

rollingscone wrote: »

.

totally agree with all of that, was going to say something similiar.

I do undertake as a cyclist but very slowly for these very reasons.
Can someone clarify for me is the OP actually in the wrong as he is undertaking?
I could imagine this exact story being told by someone on the motors taking about a lunatic cyclist undertaking at speed.

cython

adamski8 wrote: »

totally agree with all of that, was going to say something similiar.

I do undertake as a cyclist but very slowly for these very reasons.
Can someone clarify for me is the OP actually in the wrong as he is undertaking?
I could imagine this exact story being told by someone on the motors taking about a lunatic cyclist undertaking at speed.

That's a good question, and I'm not entirely sure myself. I suppose some of it could depend on whether the cycle lane was bounded by a solid (drivers should not enter/cross) or dashed (obligation on driver to make sure it is clear before entering, and they should only be in it for something like the above overtake) line. If the former, then overtaking on the inside should not be an issue, as there should not be other traffic in the lane. Even with the latter, I am not sure might a similar rule to the "4th lane" (basically meant exclusively for traffic taking the next exit) on stretches of the M50 apply, where it is considered a separate flow of traffic, and thus it is not technically overtaking on the left.

Hopefully someone with more information can clarify things!

adamski8

yeah i guess though in the end it doesn't really matter what the exact law is because even when you do want to find out its hard to, and if if its hard to you bet 99% of people don't or will never know what is correct.
I think you really have to be careful doing any type of undertaking legal or illegal. Not only would I be worried about about a stationary car in front of me pulling in front of me but also of a passenger door swinging open and possibly a unnoticed pedestrian deciding to walk in front of the car across my path too.

QueensGael

This back-to-school week, I definitely feel the stupidity index is on an upward trends across all transit categories. So far this week, I've had two salmon cyclists on the Grand Canal, two dopey pedestrians and several chancy/enraged/distracted motorists. Be careful out there.

Beasty

QueensGael wrote: »

I've had two salmon cyclists on the Grand Canal,

I personally find that rather reassuring, but I bet they looked like fish out of water to some...:D

skerry

cython wrote: »

That's a good question, and I'm not entirely sure myself. I suppose some of it could depend on whether the cycle lane was bounded by a solid (drivers should not enter/cross) or dashed (obligation on driver to make sure it is clear before entering, and they should only be in it for something like the above overtake) line. If the former, then overtaking on the inside should not be an issue, as there should not be other traffic in the lane. Even with the latter, I am not sure might a similar rule to the "4th lane" (basically meant exclusively for traffic taking the next exit) on stretches of the M50 apply, where it is considered a separate flow of traffic, and thus it is not technically overtaking on the left.

Hopefully someone with more information can clarify things!

Cycle lane was a solid white line, there's periodic broken lines along it where there are entrances to houses etc but the section in question was a solid white line. Not sure if you can be classed as undertaking if your in a cycle lane, isn't the whole point of them to keep cyclists on their own section of road on the left?

The Big Red Button

nitrogen wrote: »

I also had a shock today – nearly got hit with a car passing me out in bus lane, missing me by centimetres. I don't understand why cars are allowed in bus lanes and to park in cycle lanes on weekends, here in London

Yeah, but ...

Regardless of whether or not you agree with the rules, if you are using the road and the bus lane is not in operation, surely you should be using the left-most lane available (i.e. the bus lane) and therefore you were in the wrong by not cycling in that lane?

Also, even if the bus lane hadn't been in operation, surely this incident could just as easily have happened with a bus/taxi?

Anyways, if you'd been positioned correctly (i.e. to the left of the bus lane, assuming it wasn't in operation) it wouldn't have happened?

macnab

macnab wrote: »

Last week an old guy in a van drove off a footpath as I aproached him, I thought "cheeky Fu**er" and moved over to my right to allow him more room. He then did a full U-Turn right in front of me and drove on none the wiser as I made every noise known to mankind.

The same van was parked in the same place on the Cabra road this morning, blocking the cycle lane. Some of my High5 may have spilled on his windscreen as I cycled past, I hope he wasnt parked there too long as that stuff can be a bitch to remove when it dries.........Karma. (and yes I know its small minded but Satisfaction>Regret)

Rew

Had a very close call with a Pajaro a few weeks back coming down the hill from Casleknock to the bridge over the M50, didnt see me on the round about till he pulled out as I was passing his front bumper!!

He apologised but it scared the **** out of me.

Also had a near miss with a salmon in the Phoneix Park come off the cycle lane as I was joining it at the entrance the the Defense Forces training grounds, she was just about in control of the bike