2008 Alfa 159 16v Diesel - 160k km - snog, marry or avoid?

fat-tony

I've my eye on an early 2008 Alfa 159 with the 1.9 JDTm 16v engine. It's on the older car tax regime rather than on the emissions-based one. There's 160,000 km on the clock. It drives well, tight, no rattles. Pulls well in all gears, though I've only driven it on suburban roads. Anything particular to look out for at this mileage or is it past its best? I won't be doing huge mileage in it - maybe 15k (km) per annum.

Frynge

fat-tony wrote: »

I've my eye on an early 2008 Alfa 159 with the 1.9 JDTm 16v engine. It's on the older car tax regime rather than on the emissions-based one. There's 160,000 km on the clock. It drives well, tight, no rattles. Pulls well in all gears, though I've only driven it on suburban roads. Anything particular to look out for at this mileage or is it past its best? I won't be doing huge mileage in it - maybe 15k (km) per annum.

Price

Anan1

The mileage isn't a problem, as long as it's been maintained. As with any Alfa, I wouldn't bother leaving the house for anything without a full specialist service history.

Zubeneschamali

fat-tony wrote: »

It's on the older car tax regime rather than on the emissions-based one.

You could change it over, if it's cheaper on the new.

The Guvnor

There is something odd to me about an Alfa diesel just does not sit right.:)

If the price is right and car is in good nick then worth a punt.

Tazio

I have a 2006 159 1.9JTDm in the family at the moment with >96,000 miles on the clock. Regular oil/filter changes will keep it going for a very long time. Personally I do it every 10k miles REGARDLESS of what the official Alfa service interval says. Castrol Edge or Selina. I know it's a bit old school but there you go.

Also, this engine hates frequent short journeys. The DPF will clog up if the car is not given a good 15 mile Italian tuneup from time to time. If you're doing small mileage this is not the engine for you.

The front upper wishbones may last 20k miles or 50k miles depending on your local road network. My personal experience.

Interior trim and fittings have worn quite well too for near 100k miles.

Check for rust underneath. The 159's do not rust anything like the older 156's.. but do have a look at the leading edge sub frame (not sure that's the correct term). Check the brackets holding on the radiator and the bolts on the 'crash-bar'. Also have a quick look at the state of the undertray. that'll give you a good indication if the car has been nose-dived or scraped over steps/ramps. The bolts/screws holding on this tray suffer rust too. They may rust in place, or be sheared off. Just makes re-fitting the tray difficult etc. All these bolts may rust, and it just mean servicing at a later date takes longer...

Check (if you can) the condition of the sump nut.. these round off like crazy.. so some owners/garages seem to just suck the oil out and not drain from the sump.... tut tut tut.. therefore not all the crud gets ejected during a service. I'm on my 4th nut now. the oil filter is accessed via the right wheel well. Yes I'm serious. Just have a look at the plastic trim in there to make sure its on solid and all there..

If you take it for a spin verify the mileage display is not flashing. This will indicate a dodgy device somewhere on the CAN bus. Not the end of the world though. Just takes a bit of debugging.

Front tyres may not last long if 'old' toe settings were used.. Alfa revised to a 'parallel' setting. So tyres now last longer than a trip around the block. Have a look at the wear on the inner edges.... 225/50/17 are the original sized tyres on the non Ti spec. Make sure there is a 98 load index tyres on there!! Some owners have repalced with lower load index values.. not too sure how an insurance company would react if there was an accident.

Check if the steering rack has been replaced under warranty. If not ask the garage selling the car it is covered if it fails when you buy the car... Check the colour of the fluid. Green = Good. Red = Bad. To test if the steering rack is on the way out turn the steering wheel to the extreme left or right, if you hear a loud purring/whine (you'll know) and shuddering from the steering wheel. If bad it won't result in a catastrophic fail or loss of steering, but you may start to leak fluid on the rack and steering will feel sloppy. Odd cars the fluid bubbled back up out of the reservoir. But.... on a 2008 model this should be sorted.

Ok.. I'm boring you now... PM for any specific questions if you want on the 159..

fat-tony

Cool Tazio - excellent detail. Price of the car is 10.5k, so it's competitive in comparison to Alfa dealer price. Had seen the issue with the power steering fluid mentioned elsewhere. As far as I could tell the fluid wasn't red. Looks well maintained, I need to check that the timing belt/water pump was done recently.

Tazio

fat-tony wrote: »

Cool Tazio - excellent detail. Price of the car is 10.5k, so it's competitive in comparison to Alfa dealer price. Had seen the issue with the power steering fluid mentioned elsewhere. As far as I could tell the fluid wasn't red. Looks well maintained, I need to check that the timing belt/water pump was done recently.

No worries.. I hope you enjoy it (if you buy).. If it's a good one you'll be fine.
Service history is key as you say... and yes the timing belt/water pump/tensioner(s) is a must too..


10.5k for the car... out of interest is that for a Lusso or Turismo spec? Does it have leather, dual climate control? Have a look in the glovebox too and see if there us a USB port in there.. if it does you also have Blue&Me (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue%26Me) in the car with voice-control etc.

All the best.....

fat-tony

Yes it has leather seats and the full dual climate control and the USB port in the glovebox. The folder with the manuals has one for Blue&ME. It was described as "Sportivo", rather than Lusso or Turismo which somewhat confused me:) It's 11.5k not 10.5k - I've seen so many cars in the last few days it's making my head spin!

the culture of deference

fat-tony wrote: »

Yes it has leather seats and the full dual climate control and the USB port in the glovebox. The folder with the manuals has one for Blue&ME. It was described as "Sportivo", rather than Lusso or Turismo which somewhat confused me:) It's 11.5k not 10.5k - I've seen so many cars in the last few days it's making my head spin!

Is it an import?

EPM

I'd be slow to spend that much tbh. 6 months ago I looked at a 2009 Lusso with 20k km and that was 17500 from a main dealer. That was the 8v 120 though.

fat-tony

the culture of deference wrote: »

Is it an import?

Not as far as I know.

fat-tony

EPM wrote: »

I'd be slow to spend that much tbh. 6 months ago I looked at a 2009 Lusso with 20k km and that was 17500 from a main dealer. That was the 8v 120 though.

The 8v Lusso for 2008 with low mileage (60k km) is about 14K in a main dealer at the moment. I figured 3K discount on a high mileage 16v was ok - but maybe not?

EPM

When people see high mileage and Alfa in the same sentence they run a mile. Resale will be low and it will be a hard job to sell it.

I like the 159 but to take that on I'd want to be getting it very cheap.

Hotwheels

I'm on my third 159 16V JTDm and they are a excellent mile muncher, and lovely place to be.

As mentioned they can be hard on tyres, and real world MPG is about 41-47, depending on how you drive. Toparms as mentioned can need replacing in as little as 20K miles, again depending on driving environment..

Problems with steering racks were sorted by 2008, wrong fluid seemed to be the culprit.

Just make sure the T-Belt was changed, i.e written proof....

Best of luck if you buy, nothing drives like one imo

fat-tony

Hotwheels wrote: »

I'm on my third 159 16V JTDm and they are a excellent mile muncher, and lovely place to be.

As mentioned they can be hard on tyres, and real world MPG is about 41-47, depending on how you drive. Toparms as mentioned can need replacing in as little as 20K miles, again depending on driving environment..

Problems with steering racks were sorted by 2008, wrong fluid seemed to be the culprit.

Just make sure the T-Belt was changed, i.e written proof....

Best of luck if you buy, nothing drives like one imo

Yes that's my biggest concern and have asked for the paperwork. Dealer is offering a 12 month warranty, though, so he seems to stand over it being a good example. Mind nearly made up...:)

Nonoperational

I'd go for it. It's a nice car, seems good money to me and it's a bit different. They might have a few problems but all modern cars seem to.

Hotwheels

fat-tony wrote: »

Yes that's my biggest concern and have asked for the paperwork. Dealer is offering a 12 month warranty, though, so he seems to stand over it being a good example. Mind nearly made up...:)

If they are giving 12mths ask them what it will cover, no harm in asking

A cracker of a car though, just an owners opinion

kkelly77

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

You could change it over, if it's cheaper on the new.

Apologies for the slight thread hijack, but how can you do that Zubeneschamali?

166man

I would stand by Alfa's for sure, a great mile muncher. Our 8 month old diesel sportwagon has 27k km on it now with no problems so far. There are others out there though with less than 100k miles for sale around the 12k mark.

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Alfa-Romeo/159/1.9-T%23Ds/201132203788519/advert?channel=CARS

Another option is that if you have 12k and want a 159, look to the UK maybe. Many cars are vastly better spec than the ones for sale here.

Also you can get proper Alfa leather retro fitted these days for about 1k. Would really help sell it on!

On another note this has caught my eye!

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Alfa-Romeo/166/2.0-SPOR/201112201765531/advert?channel=CARS



Good luck though they are great cars!

is the 1.9 JTD really not for shorter journeys? Id be doign about 5 miles to work each way, city driving, is the petrol the better engine in my circumstances?

the diseal is more powerful and economical.

Also whats the soundsystem like in these, is it as good as the BOSE in the 147s/156s?

Lex Luthor

having driven both diesels in the 159, I would only ever have the 2.4

166man

Lex Luthor wrote: »

having driven both diesels in the 159, I would only ever have the 2.4

Why is that?

EPM

166man wrote: »

Why is that?

5 pot ftw:D

bladespin

Deleted User wrote: »

is the 1.9 JTD really not for shorter journeys? Id be doign about 5 miles to work each way, city driving, is the petrol the better engine in my circumstances?

the diseal is more powerful and economical.

Short, stop/start runs will feck up the DPF (expensive - any make) in pretty much any diesel, you really need to be clocking up the mileage for them to be worthwhile.

166man

EPM wrote: »

5 pot ftw:D

True we had one for a week in a brera about two years ago and I remember it for feeling like a petrol the way it accelerated. However fuel economy and tax weren't great though... A bit noisy too..

bazz26

Deleted User wrote: »

is the 1.9 JTD really not for shorter journeys? Id be doign about 5 miles to work each way, city driving, is the petrol the better engine in my circumstances?

the diseal is more powerful and economical.

Also whats the soundsystem like in these, is it as good as the BOSE in the 147s/156s?

If you are only driving 5 miles to work then power and fuel economy are pretty much irrelevent. A diesel car will not even be warmed up after that short journey, they are more complex than a petrol and cost more to buy. You would be making no savings imo.

Lex Luthor

166man wrote: »

True we had one for a week in a brera about two years ago and I remember it for feeling like a petrol the way it accelerated. However fuel economy and tax weren't great though... A bit noisy too..

The 1.9 is a bit of a tractor. The 2.4 is luvly and smooth

bazz26

bazz26 wrote: »

If you are only driving 5 miles to work then power and fuel economy are pretty much irrelevent. A diesel car will not even be warmed up after that short journey, they are more complex than a petrol and cost more to buy. You would be making no savings imo.

most of the second hand 159's are diesel and the same price as petrol. Im not concerned about economy, but thought the 1.8 petrol was a little slow in such a big car. Loved the torque in the diesel to.

Theres feck all 2.4 diesels to be had in ireland, they're mostly 1.8 petrol and 1.9 JTD. And nearly all turismo, which i believe is the most basic?

With Blue and Me is it possible to connect your mp3 and control it through the steering wheel? Is Blue and me a must have?

galwaytt

EPM wrote: »

When people see high mileage and Alfa in the same sentence they run a mile. Resale will be low and it will be a hard job to sell it.

I like the 159 but to take that on I'd want to be getting it very cheap.

There's nothing to support that other than the.........wind. Modern Alfa's currently no worse than any VW. And since when is 160k kms (100k miles), high ? In this day and age, there is no reason for cars not to reach double that without too much effort. I have that engine in my Saab, and it's a peach, and it has 140k kms, and pulls as well, as sweetly, and as powerfully as it did at half that mileage. Whatever else may give up, I don't thing it's the engine.

166man wrote: »

Why is that?

Iti's not fair to single out this Alfa in that regard - all (modern, DPF-equipped) diesels are equally liable to it. If ever there was a scrappage scheme in the future, DPF's will be the making of it.

bazz26 wrote: »

If you are only driving 5 miles to work then power and fuel economy are pretty much irrelevent. A diesel car will not even be warmed up after that short journey, they are more complex than a petrol and cost more to buy. You would be making no savings imo.

True.

EPM

galwaytt wrote: »

There's nothing to support that other than the.........wind. Modern Alfa's currently no worse than any VW. And since when is 160k kms (100k miles) high ? In this day and age, there is no reason for cars not to reach double that without too much effort. I have that engine in my Saab, and it's a peach, and it has 140k kms, and pulls as well, as sweetly, and as powerfully as it did at half that mileage. Whatever else may give up, I don't thing it's the engine..

Ah come off it. I know they are no worse than a modern VW (better even) but there's a public perception that once a car hits 100k it explodes. Add that to the stigma that unfortunately still surrounds the brand with regard to reliability and you're going to find it hard to resell compared to a low mileage one, or a similar mileage competitor.

fat-tony

bladespin wrote: »

Short, stop/start runs will feck up the DPF (expensive - any make) in pretty much any diesel, you really need to be clocking up the mileage for them to be worthwhile.

I agonised over the diesel for a while, then thought better of it (as a lot of my driving is short distance) and bought a Lusso spec petrol version with a third of the mileage for less money.

166man

If you're buying a pre-2008 Alfa with the 1.8 you would really want to be doing big miles to warrant buying a diesel. As said the petrols can be picked up for way less than the diesel with lower miles and less to go wrong.. I think the 1.8 has slightly lower tax on it too...

cjt156

The 1.8 is a soul-less GM lump, though isn't it? God be with the days of the Busso V6...

Nonoperational

It's a 1.8 GM lump alright. I think Alfa redesigned the top end. It's a good reliable engine, drives OK but is a bit slow. If that doesn't bother you then it's a fine car.

Power does bother me, so the 1.8 is no then i take it.

What would be the best engine for someone that likes a bit of power that does low milegae but doesnt want to pay big tax and insurance? The 1.9 JTS? That takes nearly 10 seconds to get to 60 though. The 2.2 is 8.8 seconds...both not great. Woudl the 2.2 be worth the extra tax and insurance?

fat-tony

From driving the 1.8 for the last couple of weeks I have found that it has little torque at the bottom end (even less than my old 1.8 Mazda 6!), but it's quite sweet once you wind it up a bit. It's mis-matched to the car's weight, though - generally under-powered. The gear ratios, especially 4th and 5th are quite long, so it cruises nicely at 120kph - pretty quiet, around 3,250 rpm. Not an engine for boy racers certainly.

fat-tony

166man wrote: »

If you're buying a pre-2008 Alfa with the 1.8 you would really want to be doing big miles to warrant buying a diesel. As said the petrols can be picked up for way less than the diesel with lower miles and less to go wrong.. I think the 1.8 has slightly lower tax on it too...

A pre 2008 petrol1.8 has slightly lower tax all right. The 2008 model's tax is based on emissions so the tax actually goes up!

Nonoperational

The 1.9 and 2.2 JTS don't make much sense to me. Higher tax for the 2.2 and still the performance is only average. The car to get is the 150bhp diesel.

Still on the look for the right 159. Theres a nice grey one on done deal but its 1.8 petrol.

What exactly is the DPF issue on the 1.9JTD? ive googled it and its discussed but what actually happens and why does driving short distances cause a problem?

Hotwheels

Deleted User wrote: »

Still on the look for the right 159. Theres a nice grey one on done deal but its 1.8 petrol.

What exactly is the DPF issue on the 1.9JTD? ive googled it and its discussed but what actually happens and why does driving short distances cause a problem?

Because the exhaust never gets hot enough on short journeys to trigger a Re-Gen, so DPF gets clogged. An Italian tune-up usually sorts that problem

I've had three 1.9 JTDm's and not had this happen, but I don't do short runs...Exhaust has a nice growl when its in a Re-Gen cycle..:)

Is the 1.9JTS any use? I know its rare enough but a nice one has caught my eye.

I do mainly short enough journeys so am unsure about the 1.9jtd.

166man

Deleted User wrote: »

Is the 1.9JTS any use? I know its rare enough but a nice one has caught my eye.

I do mainly short enough journeys so am unsure about the 1.9jtd.

Link?

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Alfa-Romeo/159/1.9-JTS-/201140204884214/advert?channel=CARS&featuredListingClickThru=true

Says 1.8 but you can see on the boot its a 1.9JTS. I love black with red leather.

Nonoperational

It's grand but it's pretty slow and pretty uneconomical. If you drive it and like it I wouldn't put you off but I personally wouldn't.