Yaris New Engine

tcawley29

ok so my yaris died with about 63000 miles on it. bought it privately 16 days ago. mechanic thinks the engine may be gone but will investigate further. he is not an official toyota garage. around how much should a new engine for a 2000 toyota yaris cost. its a 1 litre petrol. thanks

Mr Benevolent

What are the symptoms? Do you know the garage/mechanic well? Shouldn't be more than €500, maybe even less.

tcawley29

always knew it wasnt quite right since dad brought it home. sometimes it was rough on idle/start like it was low revs and about to stall but still drove. other times it was fine. then one day i stopped at a cross roads and it stalled itself but started no problem. yesterday i drove it to school so my sisters could get their books. got there fine but couldnt start it to leave.
attempt one-engine turning over for 20-30 seconds with no fire
attempt two-engine turning over for 10 seconds with no fire
all other attempts- turn key and just a single click-lookedat timing belt and it only moved about an inch when tried to start. thought it was the battery and spent an hour trying to jump start it with no joy. wouldnt push start either.
yes this mechanic is known well by my family for years. he used to service my parents cars all the time until he retired. now he does this work as a favour to friends. he said he thinks the engine is gone in my yaris but he will give it further inspection. 500 for the engine alone or does that include fitting. i have a feeling that its juast the cost of the engine. how much for fitting and labour? thanks

Nissan doctor

Unless you were running it without any oil its very unlikely that a yaris engine will have suffered a terminal failure. Has your mechanic given any explaination of what exactly he thinks has happened the engine?

Tazio

Seroxat wrote: »

Dont trust ANY mechanic they are mostly conmen and liars.

IMO that's a bit of a sweeping statement... like all professions there are good and bad (btw I'm not a mechanic)...

OP.. I think some of the Yaris engines have a timing chain as opposed to a timing belt.. either way if your family mechanic thinks the 'engine is gone' there must have been a chain/belt failure?

Without seeing your car my money would be a fuel pump gone... but it is very difficult to diagnose with seeing the car.

You'll have to post more symtoms... are all fuses intact? Was there a diagnostic light illuminated on the dashboard prior to the problems?
When you attempt to start the car what sounds do you hear? is the engine cranking/turning or do you just hear a high speed 'whizzing' noise?

The very best of luck with the car.. keep us posted!

I hope it's a simple cheap fix for you.

tcawley29

car had plenty of all fluids, checked it myself. still plenty of oil in it. i wasnt talking to the man but dad said the mechanic is still checking out the car. hopefully he'll be able to fix it. bad luck for a first car eh

tcawley29

Tazio wrote: »

IMO that's a bit of a sweeping statement... like all professions there are good and bad (btw I'm not a mechanic)...

OP.. I think some of the Yaris engines have a timing chain as opposed to a timing belt.. either way if your family mechanic thinks the 'engine is gone' there must have been a chain/belt failure?

Without seeing your car my money would be a fuel pump gone... but it is very difficult to diagnose with seeing the car.

You'll have to post more symtoms... are all fuses intact? Was there a diagnostic light illuminated on the dashboard prior to the problems?
When you attempt to start the car what sounds do you hear? is the engine cranking/turning or do you just hear a high speed 'whizzing' noise?

The very best of luck with the car.. keep us posted!

I hope it's a simple cheap fix for you.

i thought it was a timing chain too but when i looked it was a belt and it was still fine. never checked fuses as i wouldnt know eherer to start. there was a diagnostic light on but i thought it was just an old air filter that needed changing. just the single click of the engine. it tries to turn over but something is stopping it

Henry Ford III

Could be a lot of things and not necessarily a blown engine.

Check the battery and starter motors to begin with.

Tazio

tcawley29 wrote: »

i thought it was a timing chain too but when i looked it was a belt and it was still fine. never checked fuses as i wouldnt know eherer to start. there was a diagnostic light on but i thought it was just an old air filter that needed changing. just the single click of the engine. it tries to turn over but something is stopping it

Timing belt? Ok.and all fluids are ok. Your mechanic will have to do a few very easy and quick checks:

- Are timing notches lined up on engine? If it were me I'd take out spark plug 1 and set engine such that piston 1 is at Top Dead Center. I think from memory this is a 3 cylinder engine?
- All spark plugs tight!
- Is battery ok? Really? are terminal clean clean clean for cranking current.
- Will car jump start ok, but not fire up from own battery?
- Is fuel pump priming (high pitched whine noise) prior to cranking.
- With ignition key in position II read diag codes. What codes are stored? An air filter by itself wouldn't really cause a diag light on... hmmm, unless it was badly blocked and there is a split in the air-intake pipe after the air metering..

The fact the car worked / died and then worked again, IMO, rules out a major engine failure.. again I'm guessing fuel pump... or some minor electrical niggle...

tcawley29

Tazio wrote: »

Timing belt? Ok.and all fluids are ok. Your mechanic will have to do a few very easy and quick checks:

- Are timing notches lined up on engine? If it were me I'd take out spark plug 1 and set engine such that piston 1 is at Top Dead Center. I think from memory this is a 3 cylinder engine?
- All spark plugs tight!
- Is battery ok? Really? are terminal clean clean clean for cranking current.
- Will car jump start ok, but not fire up from own battery?
- Is fuel pump priming (high pitched whine noise) prior to cranking.
- With ignition key in position II read diag codes. What codes are stored? An air filter by itself wouldn't really cause a diag light on... hmmm, unless it was badly blocked and there is a split in the air-intake pipe after the air metering..

The fact the car worked / died and then worked again, IMO, rules out a major engine failure.. again I'm guessing fuel pump... or some minor electrical niggle...

no the car worked and then died. it never came back to life. it was towed to the garage using my dads corolla.

henke

OP if you do need a new engine they will be plenty of Yaris ones lying about in scrapyards. If possible, bring along a mechanic or someone with a fair knowledge on engines to select one. You will find one no bother.

My bro got a replacement engine for a Corolla about two years ago. Cost around €400 altogether to buy it and get it fitted. Engine going 100% since.

Hopefully wont be the engine though, Toyota are a good car and takes a lot to kill the engine in them, especially some of the older ones.

Good luck.

Tazio

tcawley29 wrote: »

no the car worked and then died. it never came back to life. it was towed to the garage using my dads corolla.

Oh, I didn't understand that from your original post. Sorry.

Either way your mechanic can check by manually turning the engine.... with the spark plugs out you can keep an eye on piston 1 and the markings on the cams etc.. that'll help determine if the belt slipped a cog etc.

again.. best of luck.. I hope it's a cheap fix !

Nissan doctor

No yaris's have timing belts. They are all chain driven engines.

L-M

Nissan doctor wrote: »

No yaris's have timing belts. They are all chain driven engines.

New ones do, apparently.

200 quid for a new engine and you'd probably get someone to fit it for 300 depending. That's worst case scenario but I find it very, very unlikey that the engine is gone, especially with that mileage.

tcawley29

thanks everyone, will let the mechanic sort out a new engine if needs be since i wouldnt have a clue.

Nissan doctor wrote: »

No yaris's have timing belts. They are all chain driven engines.

have to tell you that you're wrong nissan doctor. my yaris does have a timing belt. this i am 100% certain of. is it possible that the chain system could have been converted to a belt system by a previous owner? its a 2000 yaris by the way

L-M

tcawley29 wrote: »

thanks everyone, will let the mechanic sort out a new engine if needs be since i wouldnt have a clue.

have to tell you that you're wrong nissan doctor. my yaris does have a timing belt. this i am 100% certain of. is it possible that the chain system could have been converted to a belt system by a previous owner? its a 2000 yaris by the way

It doesn't, your car is chain.

tcawley29

Limerick man wrote: »

It doesn't, your car is chain.

then maybe im looking at the wrong think. open bonnet, look at left side of engine. its a belt. felt both sides, no teeth just a belt

L-M

tcawley29 wrote: »

then maybe im looking at the wrong think. open bonnet, look at left side of engine. its a belt. felt both sides, no teeth just a belt

No the chain is under the rocker cover, you can't see it unless you remove the cover. It's the fan belt/water pump you're looking at.

henke

tcawley29 wrote: »

thanks everyone, will let the mechanic sort out a new engine if needs be since i wouldnt have a clue.

have to tell you that you're wrong nissan doctor. my yaris does have a timing belt. this i am 100% certain of. is it possible that the chain system could have been converted to a belt system by a previous owner? its a 2000 yaris by the way

Are you sure you are not mistaken for the fan belt?

tcawley29

Limerick man wrote: »

No the chain is under the rocker cover, you can't see it unless you remove the cover. It's the fan belt/water pump you're looking at.

ohh, thats what happens when i try to be a mechanic. i apologise for the mistake. prehaps the timing chain snapped and i never saw because i didnt know where it was. anyways when i tried to start the car the fan belt/water pump only moves about one inch then nothing. no noise atall. any ideas?

L-M

tcawley29 wrote: »

ohh, thats what happens when i try to be a mechanic. i apologise for the mistake. prehaps the timing chain snapped and i never saw because i didnt know where it was. anyways when i tried to start the car the fan belt/water pump only moves about one inch then nothing. no noise atall. any ideas?

I'd nearly bet my car that the chain hasn't snapped, if all the other belts are intact it sounds like something silly, but again it's hard to judge without seeing the car. I'd be getting a second opinion if that mechanic of yours is telling you the engine is wanked.

tcawley29

Limerick man wrote: »

I'd nearly bet my car that the chain hasn't snapped, if all the other belts are intact it sounds like something silly, but again it's hard to judge without seeing the car. I'd be getting a second opinion if that mechanic of yours is telling you the engine is wanked.

he did say he was still going to look at the car to be 100% certain it wasn't something else so he sounds genuine and my dad and uncle has known him for years and always brought their cars to him so we'll see what happens

tcawley29

according to mechanic engine is definately gone. doesnt know how or why. never saw anything like it in all the years hes been a mechanic. hes getting an engine off a local scrap yard for about 300 so not too bad i guess. said the timing belt had slipped. yes he did say belt.

Plug

tcawley29 wrote: »

according to mechanic engine is definately gone. doesnt know how or why. never saw anything like it in all the years hes been a mechanic. hes getting an engine off a local scrap yard for about 300 so not too bad i guess. said the timing belt had slipped. yes he did say belt.

He probably meant a chain? The tensioner could have failed causing the chain to jump a few teeth.

snowman707

tcawley29 wrote: »

according to mechanic engine is definately gone. doesnt know how or why. never saw anything like it in all the years hes been a mechanic. hes getting an engine off a local scrap yard for about 300 so not too bad i guess. said the timing belt had slipped. yes he did say belt.

can you get someone else to look at the car before you go forking out cash,

my gang had 2 X 00 yaris both were chain and still perfect well over 130 k miles

tcawley29

snowman707 wrote: »

can you get someone else to look at the car before you go forking out cash,

my gang had 2 X 00 yaris both were chain and still perfect well over 130 k miles

nope he has already been given the go ahead. as i said he thinks someone reset the mileage on the car before i got it

Nissan doctor

I'd be getting a second opinion if he doesn't know 'how or why', The sole purpose to his profession is to know exactly 'how and why' a problem has occured with a car.

I'd be asking him to explain how he has determaned that the engine is 'gone'

henke

The mechanic should know what has caused the engine to fail.

What makes you think the car was clocked? Did any sort of service history, previous NCT receipts come with the car?

It may well have been clocked as a Toyota engine should do many more miles even without proper servicing.

Nissan doctor

Limerick man wrote: »

New ones do, apparently.

200 quid for a new engine and you'd probably get someone to fit it for 300 depending. That's worst case scenario but I find it very, very unlikey that the engine is gone, especially with that mileage.

The new model yaris uses the 1kr-fe engine which is also chain driven.

tcawley29 wrote: »

thanks everyone, will let the mechanic sort out a new engine if needs be since i wouldnt have a clue.

have to tell you that you're wrong nissan doctor. my yaris does have a timing belt. this i am 100% certain of. is it possible that the chain system could have been converted to a belt system by a previous owner? its a 2000 yaris by the way

There are no kits available to convert normal engines from chain to belt or vice versa. As some said I think your mistaking the auxiliary belt for a timing belt, when you look into an engine bay you cannot see a timing belt or a timing chain.

VolvoMan

tcawley29 wrote: »

then maybe im looking at the wrong think. open bonnet, look at left side of engine. its a belt. felt both sides, no teeth just a belt

That's the alternator belt.

The timing chain is something you won't be able to see without opening up the engine.

snowman707

tcawley29 wrote: »

always knew it wasnt quite right since dad brought it home. sometimes it was rough on idle/start like it was low revs and about to stall but still drove. other times it was fine. then one day i stopped at a cross roads and it stalled itself but started no problem. yesterday i drove it to school so my sisters could get their books. got there fine but couldnt start it to leave.
attempt one-engine turning over for 20-30 seconds with no fire
attempt two-engine turning over for 10 seconds with no fire
all other attempts- turn key and just a single click-lookedat timing belt and it only moved about an inch when tried to start. thought it was the battery and spent an hour trying to jump start it with no joy. wouldnt push start either.
yes this mechanic is known well by my family for years. he used to service my parents cars all the time until he retired. now he does this work as a favour to friends. he said he thinks the engine is gone in my yaris but he will give it further inspection. 500 for the engine alone or does that include fitting. i have a feeling that its juast the cost of the engine. how much for fitting and labour? thanks

Plug wrote: »

He probably meant a chain? The tensioner could have failed causing the chain to jump a few teeth.

looks more like an electrical fault to me , but i'd first to admit I have very knowledge of petrol engines

tcawley29

snowman707 wrote: »

looks more like an electrical fault to me , but i'd first to admit I have very knowledge of petrol engines

oh well, too late now as i think the mechanic has already ordered the engine. could even have the engine at this stage since the dismantler is based about 2 miles away.
how long should it take him to replace my engine, he is a very experienced mechanic and a very good one

Nissan doctor

tcawley29 wrote: »

oh well, too late now as i think the mechanic has already ordered the engine. could even have the engine at this stage since the dismantler is based about 2 miles away.
how long should it take him to replace my engine, he is a very experienced mechanic and a very good one

I think some of us are struggling with that one since he said the engine is 'gone' but doesn't know how its gone or why.


If he has checkedthe engine properly, he should know that 'x' has failed and this will have caused damage to part 'y' and 'z' and he should be able to clearly explain this to you.

IMO just telling a customer it 'gone' but you don't know why just reeks of 'I can't be arsed looking into it too much I'll just tell them it needs a new engine and save myself the hassle'

tcawley29

Nissan doctor wrote: »

I think some of us are struggling with that one since he said the engine is 'gone' but doesn't know how its gone or why.


If he has checkedthe engine properly, he should know that 'x' has failed and this will have caused damage to part 'y' and 'z' and he should be able to clearly explain this to you.

IMO just telling a customer it 'gone' but you don't know why just reeks of 'I can't be arsed looking into it too much I'll just tell them it needs a new engine and save myself the hassle'

he said the timing 'belt' had been slipping and that was the cause. im just telling ye what my dad heard from him

Nissan doctor

tcawley29 wrote: »

he said the timing 'belt' had been slipping and that was the cause. im just telling ye what my dad heard from him

Well you now know that your car doesn't have a timing belt yet your still not questioning the mechanic and your letting him go ahead and replace the engine. Even if the chain has slipped, it still doesn't require a new engine.

We've tried to help.

Its your money at the end of the day....

tcawley29

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Well you now know that your car doesn't have a timing belt yet your still not questioning the mechanic and your letting him go ahead and replace the engine. Even if the chain has slipped, it still doesn't require a new engine.

We've tried to help.

Its your money at the end of the day....

well my dad had given him the go ahead on the job early this mornign. i only found out about this at 4pm

bladebrew

hilarious thread,

ask boards memebers for help, then do the opposite:D

tcawley29

bladebrew wrote: »

hilarious thread,

ask boards memebers for help, the do the opposite:D

not my fault, i only found out what was happening when my mother got home from work, my dad wouldnt tell me anything about it

bladebrew

tcawley29 wrote: »

not my fault, i only found out what was happening when my mother got home from work, my dad wouldnt tell me anything about it

ah we wont wont blame you so!
when you read the thread in one go it just looks like you have gone mad:)

ì still find the story a bit odd though,

tcawley29

bladebrew wrote: »

ah we wont wont blame you so!
when you read the thread in one go it just looks like you have gone mad:)

ì still find the story a bit odd though,

i understant where you're coming from, if i had the car here now i would have looked at what everyone suggested but i dont. oh well, if i have the same problem with my new engine ill try what ye said

Esel

tcawley29 wrote: »

.... oh well, if i have the same problem with my new engine ill try what ye said

Oh dear God. Sorry, but that's just the icing on the cake of this thread.

tcawley29

after a lot of thought i can see how the timing chain was the cause of the problem. im my opinion most likely due to a failed tensioner. every time i started the car i could hear a chain rattling but the noise went away about 30 seconds later. i thought that this may be normal for this type of car since i never had one of these before and the noise was there since i bought it this month. anyways thanka everyone for all you're suggestions. mechanic is supposed to be calling my dad sometime today with an update so i'll let ye know. hopefully everything will be okay in this new engine with regular servicing. how often should i get this car serviced, i think it will be doing very high mileage driving, about 65 miles everyday for 4 years

tcawley29

UPDATE FROM MECHANIC
battery was changed in car 2 years ago. mechanic thinks that car was towed by previous owner at some stage and that it was towed while it was in reverse gear which is the cause of 1 problem. he also said that 3 pistons were blown out of place due to the timing 'belt' (he called it a belt again) slipping. engine is definately gone. he hopes to have the new engine fitted and the car ready for my by tuesday. hopefully all will be well with my car. THANKS FOR EVERYONE'S HELP

Nissan doctor

A timing belt or chain slipping at idle or normal speeds won't cause any issues with the pistons:rolleyes:


I give up on this one I think.....


Best of luck with it.

tcawley29

Nissan doctor wrote: »

A timing belt or chain slipping at idle or normal speeds won't cause any issues with the pistons:rolleyes:


I give up on this one I think.....


Best of luck with it.

what was messed up in the engine when it was towed forwards while in reverse gear though :O thanks

Nissan doctor

tcawley29 wrote: »

what was messed up in the engine when it was towed forwards while in reverse gear though :O thanks

The gearbox would be damaged by doing that. No effect of pistons/engine internals.


Look I know it just looks like I'm contradicting everything you/your mechanic is saying but I think on boards motors in general we have a serious issue with people getting ripped off by incompetant mechanics and it looks like thats exactly whats happening in your case as going by the descriptions/phrases your mechanis is using, he clearly has no idea how an engine works or what has actually happed to your one and he is just taking the easiest path for him which is tell you needs a new engine on the assumption that you won't question him......and in this case, he's right and this is how so many cowboy mechanics get away with ripping people off every day.:mad:


Rant over......

Plug

Nissan doctor wrote: »

The gearbox would be damaged by doing that. No effect of pistons/engine internals.


Look I know it just looks like I'm contradicting everything you/your mechanic is saying but I think on boards motors in general we have a serious issue with people getting ripped off by incompetant mechanics and it looks like thats exactly whats happening in your case as going by the descriptions/phrases your mechanis is using, he clearly has no idea how an engine works or what has actually happed to your one and he is just taking the easiest path for him which is tell you needs a new engine on the assumption that you won't question him......and in this case, he's right and this is how so many cowboy mechanics get away with ripping people off every day.:mad:


Rant over......

An interesting one there Nissan doctor I know that some Merc engines if turned over the opposite way the chain tensioner will slack off and the chain will lift off the cam or crank pulleys. Now if that was towed forward in reverse maybe something similar happened?
Also how can the gearbox be damaged if its towed forward when in reverse?

*EDIT* on that note remember the time the guy here was told his head was gone on his focus? I ended up saving him nearly a grand. why? because he had an incompetant mechanic, turned out to be frost plugs. spot on there doctor:cool:

snowman707

tcawley29 wrote: »

after a lot of thought i can see how the timing chain was the cause of the problem. im my opinion most likely due to a failed tensioner. every time i started the car i could hear a chain rattling but the noise went away about 30 seconds later. i thought that this may be normal for this type of car since i never had one of these before and the noise was there since i bought it this month. anyways thanka everyone for all you're suggestions. mechanic is supposed to be calling my dad sometime today with an update so i'll let ye know. hopefully everything will be okay in this new engine with regular servicing. how often should i get this car serviced, i think it will be doing very high mileage driving, about 65 miles everyday for 4 years

it took 42 post before you mentioned rattle

Nissan doctor wrote: »

The gearbox would be damaged by doing that. No effect of pistons/engine internals.


Look I know it just looks like I'm contradicting everything you/your mechanic is saying but I think on boards motors in general we have a serious issue with people getting ripped off by incompetant mechanics and it looks like thats exactly whats happening in your case as going by the descriptions/phrases your mechanis is using, he clearly has no idea how an engine works or what has actually happed to your one and he is just taking the easiest path for him which is tell you needs a new engine on the assumption that you won't question him......and in this case, he's right and this is how so many cowboy mechanics get away with ripping people off every day.:mad:


Rant over......

I know a pajero whose chain snapped shortly after it rolled backwards after being parked in a forward gear, tensioners over tightened the chain

Nissan doctor

Plug wrote: »

An interesting one there Nissan doctor I know that some Merc engines if turned over the opposite way the chain tensioner will slack off and the chain will lift off the cam or crank pulleys. Now if that was towed forward in reverse maybe something similar happened?
Also how can the gearbox be damaged if its towed forward when in reverse?

*EDIT* on that note remember the time the guy here was told his head was gone on his focus? I ended up saving him nearly a grand. why? because he had an incompetant mechanic, turned out to be frost plugs. spot on there doctor:cool:

I remember it alright, there is no shortage of that going on.

The gearbox can be damaged as you are forcing the wheels in the opposite direction to the gearing which in return forces the engine to rotate backwards. Most chain tensioners have a ratchet which prevents them from being pushed back in and slackening too much, even if it did slacken and allowed the chain to slip, there would still be no pistons 'blown out of place'.