Garda Adult Caution Query?

Gergiev

Here's my little tale...

Attended a function in another town earlier this week and booked into accommodation to enable me to have a few drinks. Ended up having a lot more alcohol than I expected and couldn't find my way back to accommodation.

Got picked up by local Gardai after they drove past me a few times and noticed me wandering the various streets. They decided to arrest me and hold me for the night as I might be a danger to myself.

Next morning when released I was presented with a form to sign for an Adult Caution. I was quite taken aback when informed of this and told them I wouldn't sign until I investigated this Caution business a little further.

Spoke to the arresting Garda tonight and he was courteous and professional and explained that because I couldn't properly explain some details like where I was staying, etc he thought it better to detain me than release me back onto the streets with maybe no bed while being somewhat disorientated.

Which is fair enough.

But I'm disappointed to receive a Caution and thought it might just have been better to let me sign the overnight book and leave it at that.

My Questions -

I haven't signed the Caution yet and I'd like to know is there a time limit to signing that?

I've read up here about these Cautions and it seems if I don't sign then it'll go to court.

Or is there any other alternative like signing the Caution and then pleading for leniency from the Superintendent?

Not comfortable with having any stain on an otherwise unblemished record.

Welcome any comments/advice/experiences...

source

Gergiev wrote: »

Here's my little tale...

Attended a function in another town earlier this week and booked into accommodation to enable me to have a few drinks. Ended up having a lot more alcohol than I expected and couldn't find my way back to accommodation.

Got picked up by local Gardai after they drove past me a few times and noticed me wandering the various streets. They decided to arrest me and hold me for the night as I might be a danger to myself.

Next morning when released I was presented with a form to sign for an Adult Caution. I was quite taken aback when informed of this and told them I wouldn't sign until I investigated this Caution business a little further.

Spoke to the arresting Garda tonight and he was courteous and professional and explained that because I couldn't properly explain some details like where I was staying, etc he thought it better to detain me than release me back onto the streets with maybe no bed while being somewhat disorientated.

Which is fair enough.

But I'm disappointed to receive a Caution and thought it might just have been better to let me sign the overnight book and leave it at that.

My Questions -

I haven't signed the Caution yet and I'd like to know is there a time limit to signing that?

I've read up here about these Cautions and it seems if I don't sign then it'll go to court.

Or is there any other alternative like signing the Caution and then pleading for leniency from the Superintendent?

Not comfortable with having any stain on an otherwise unblemished record.

Welcome any comments/advice/experiences...

Hi op,

Sorry to hear about your arrest. I've one or two points.

First, an adult caution is a last chance kind of deal. You don't get a criminal record with it. All that happens is you meet with a superintendent or inspector and they tell you that you've been a naughty boy and not to do it again. That's it. If you reoffend again in 3 years the charges can be brought back and put to you in court.

Secondly there is one other option available for prosecution in this case. If you were arrested for section 4 or 5 public order act, (intoxication and disorderly conduct) you may be considered for a fixed charge penalty notice (on the spot fine) this is about €120 but once paid that is the end of the matter, if it's not paid you go to court. If it was any other offence then you wouldn't be eligible for an on the spot fine.

angeline

There is no 'overnight' book to sign. You were arrested for an offence. That has to be followed up in some way. You would have been put through the custody record. A few years ago there was no Adult Caution. You could have been charged or summonsed directly to court.

mcgarrett

I noticed you mentioned signing the adult caution form and then pleading for leniency from the Supt.

The adult caution is exactly what it says on the tin. You are cautioned by the Supt. or Insp. Thats where it ends you will not have a record and as stated by a previous poster it can only come back on you if you reoffend.

James Jones

source wrote: »

First, an adult caution is a last chance kind of deal. You don't get a criminal record with it. All that happens is you meet with a superintendent or inspector and they tell you that you've been a naughty boy and not to do it again. That's it. If you reoffend again in 3 years the charges can be brought back and put to you in court.

Having read the Adult Cautioning Scheme, I believe the above advise is incorrect as there is no mention of a "clean slate" after 3 years. As far as I can see, you are allowed to be cautioned ONCE only, in your lifetime. So, if you do something stupid again when you're 50 or 60, the Gardai won't have the option of offering you a caution.
It is important to read the actual scheme yourself and not rely on advice from me or others.
However, congrats for having the liathróidi not to accept the caution when under the weather and lost while in a strange place.

tayto lover

James Jones wrote: »

Having read the Adult Cautioning Scheme, I believe the above advise is incorrect as there is no mention of a "clean slate" after 3 years. As far as I can see, you are allowed to be cautioned ONCE only, in your lifetime. So, if you do something stupid again when you're 50 or 60, the Gardai won't have the option of offering you a caution.
It is important to read the actual scheme yourself and not rely on advice from me or others.
However, congrats for having the liathróidi not to accept the caution when under the weather and lost while in a strange place.

Why congratulate him for that ? He either signs it or is prosecuted. Its a no brainer regardless of what happens in the future.
OP take your Adult Caution like a man. You were out of order and arrested for your own safety and the Garda was up front with you. Don't take advise from fools either. NOW is what matters.

James Jones

tayto lover wrote: »

Why congratulate him for that ?

Because I admire him for standing up instead of submitting to being bullied.

tayto lover wrote: »

NOW is what matters.

Actually, this fool has advised you incorrectly. An adult caution is an admission of guilt that remains with you forever.

source

James Jones wrote: »

source wrote: »

First, an adult caution is a last chance kind of deal. You don't get a criminal record with it. All that happens is you meet with a superintendent or inspector and they tell you that you've been a naughty boy and not to do it again. That's it. If you reoffend again in 3 years the charges can be brought back and put to you in court.

Having read the Adult Cautioning Scheme, I believe the above advise is incorrect as there is no mention of a "clean slate" after 3 years. As far as I can see, you are allowed to be cautioned ONCE only, in your lifetime. So, if you do something stupid again when you're 50 or 60, the Gardai won't have the option of offering you a caution.
It is important to read the actual scheme yourself and not rely on advice from me or others.
However, congrats for having the liathróidi not to accept the caution when under the weather and lost while in a strange place.

I never mentioned the words 'clean slate' nor did i say he could he be cautioned more than once. What i did say is that if he reoffends within 3 years of accepting the caution he can be charged with tge original offence and prosecuted for same.

Try reading a post before you go all guns blazing trying to disprove someone.

Edit: i would also like to add that your congratulations are premature and you lack understanding of the situation. If the op chooses not to sign the caution he will be charged and prosecuted, once charged you no longer qualify for the scheme as you've waived your last chance.

People on here have a working knowledge of the scheme, which means we know whats involved better than someone sitting at home reading a document.

tayto lover

James Jones wrote: »

Because I admire him for standing up instead of submitting to being bullied.

Actually, this fool has advised you incorrectly. An adult caution is an admission of guilt that remains with you forever.

He admitted himself to having too much alcohol and wandering around the streets i.e. that he is guilty of being a danger to himself. Read his post man. A caution is not a conviction. Of course he should take it. The file has to be closed and this can be done in any of two ways, caution or court.
What chance do you think he would have in court then ?
Why do you think he should refuse his caution and go to court ?

mcgarrett

James Jones wrote: »

Actually, this fool has advised you incorrectly. An adult caution is an admission of guilt that remains with you forever.

A previous conviction is something that remains with you forever. An adult caution is there to afford first offenders a second chance and is not on record as a conviction.

From the OP's post he was clearly drunk and a danger to himself, if he is not in the company of a sober adult who will take responsibility for him or satisy the Gardai that he can get home safely, then they would be negligent to allow him roam the streets where he may come to harm or suffer injury as a result of his intoxication.

Gergiev

Many thanks for all replies…

Having studied the situation over the weekend, it looks like the only realistic option I have is to sign the form and take the caution.

Just a couple of points in relation to the replies above…

However, congrats for having the liathróidi not to accept the caution when under the weather and lost while in a strange place.

I wouldn’t necessarily claim that I displayed any great Liathroidi in the matter. It just seemed common sense not to sign something I didn’t understand until I did some research about it.

Interestingly, according to one of the Gardai, I shouldn’t leave the station without signing but however another Garda told me that if it’s not signed within 6 months then it automatically becomes a summons to court for the offence.

Bit of a contradiction there…

OP take your Adult Caution like a man.

Also, I don’t think it’s exactly a case of “taking it (the caution) like a man”. If this happened in my own vicinity I would accept that description but the only reason I was wandering the streets was that I was lost in a strange town. I took a detour around there on Saturday night to try and figure what happened and it turned out I left the hotel by another entrance than the one I entered by and proceeded to take what would have been the right directions from the main entrance. Never having been in the hotel or town before I didn’t realise by doing so I was then walking OUT of town instead of down the road to the accommodation. By the time I realised something was wrong I was lost in a maze of streets and couldn’t figure my way back to the other side of town. Also, the Gardai did confirm I showed them the keys to the BnB which I’d attached to my key-ring for safe-keeping but because of my lack of coherence (due to intoxication, I admit) they weren’t on for taking the chance on me and thought it safer to detain me to sober up.

Having worked in the bar and hotel trade for many years, I occasionally found myself dropping home regulars that were a bit worse for wear.

So I think it’s unfortunate the Gardai don’t have the discretion to take you in for a few hours without issuing a caution as in this case I was no threat to anyone. And the shock of waking up in the barracks would deter most from dropping their guard again.

That's the story so far...

MapForJ

Gergiev wrote: »

Many thanks for all replies…

Having studied the situation over the weekend, it looks like the only realistic option I have is to sign the form and take the caution.

Just a couple of points in relation to the replies above…



I wouldn’t necessarily claim that I displayed any great Liathroidi in the matter. It just seemed common sense not to sign something I didn’t understand until I did some research about it.

Interestingly, according to one of the Gardai, I shouldn’t leave the station without signing but however another Garda told me that if it’s not signed within 6 months then it automatically becomes a summons to court for the offence.

Bit of a contradiction there…



Also, I don’t think it’s exactly a case of “taking it (the caution) like a man”. If this happened in my own vicinity I would accept that description but the only reason I was wandering the streets was that I was lost in a strange town. I took a detour around there on Saturday night to try and figure what happened and it turned out I left the hotel by another entrance than the one I entered by and proceeded to take what would have been the right directions from the main entrance. Never having been in the hotel or town before I didn’t realise by doing so I was then walking OUT of town instead of down the road to the accommodation. By the time I realised something was wrong I was lost in a maze of streets and couldn’t figure my way back to the other side of town. Also, the Gardai did confirm I showed them the keys to the BnB which I’d attached to my key-ring for safe-keeping but because of my lack of coherence (due to intoxication, I admit) they weren’t on for taking the chance on me and thought it safer to detain me to sober up.

Having worked in the bar and hotel trade for many years, I occasionally found myself dropping home regulars that were a bit worse for wear.

So I think it’s unfortunate the Gardai don’t have the discretion to take you in for a few hours without issuing a caution as in this case I was no threat to anyone. And the shock of waking up in the barracks would deter most from dropping their guard again.

That's the story so far...

I think itwas a bit heavy handed. as you were no trouble the cop could have let you off

tayto lover

MapForJ wrote: »

I think itwas a bit heavy handed. as you were no trouble the cop could have let you off

Happened a lad i know a year or two ago. They arrest you for your own safety. If they didn't take you to a station and took you back to your B&B and you left later and got killed or injured then there would be an outcry about them not doing the right thing. They let him out when he was sober and because he was arrested there has to be a follow up. He could have been prosecuted or cautioned and the Garda in fairness gave him the easy option. He could have prosecuted but didn't because the OP must have come across as a decent lad and gave no trouble. It would have been worse for the OP if he had to go to court as he would have a record if convicted and probably would have been. Give the Garda some credit lads.

MapForJ

tayto lover wrote: »

Happened a lad i know a year or two ago. They arrest you for your own safety. If they didn't take you to a station and took you back to your B&B and you left later and got killed or injured then there would be an outcry about them not doing the right thing. They let him out when he was sober and because he was arrested there has to be a follow up. He could have been prosecuted or cautioned and the Garda in fairness gave him the easy option. He could have prosecuted but didn't because the OP must have come across as a decent lad and gave no trouble. It would have been worse for the OP if he had to go to court as he would have a record if convicted and probably would have been. Give the Garda some credit lads.

I agree but should the gardai not have the option to let him off the next morning. Sounds like he did not give any bother and sounds like he just had a few too many and while may be illegal it is not exactly the crime of the century.

tayto lover

MapForJ wrote: »

I agree but should the gardai not have the option to let him off the next morning. Sounds like he did not give any bother and sounds like he just had a few too many and while may be illegal it is not exactly the crime of the century.

I don't think so but maybe some of the experts could clarify this. I was of the opinion that if they have to arrest you for your own safety and detain you in a station then there has to be a follow up. If there was not then it would leave the system open for civil action over wrongful arrest. I could see headings like "the Garda arrested me and kept me overnight for nothing" in the papers when the compensation bug set in. The caution or prosecution suits and protects all in my opinion.

MagicSean

MapForJ wrote: »

I agree but should the gardai not have the option to let him off the next morning. Sounds like he did not give any bother and sounds like he just had a few too many and while may be illegal it is not exactly the crime of the century.

Wasn't that the reasoning behind putting Terrence Wheelock in a cell for the night? That didn't work out to well for the Gardaí involved.

When a drunk person is in a cell they take up room and have to be checked every 15 minutes, and that's assuming they don't need medical attention too. The day of putting someone in a cell to sleep it off is gone. If a garda arrests you he needs a good reason not to follow it up with a prosecution of some sort. Otherwise he leaves himself open to disciplinary action and civil action.