Central contracts

Podge_irl

Out of sheer curiosity, does anyone know how many players going to NZ aren't on central contracts, and how many players on them are being left behind. I assume Fitz and TOL are the only two left behind. McFadden presumably doesn't have one, but who else?

justsomebloke

boss and murray I'd say aren't on them

WeeBushy

Murphy, Bowe and Buckley as well, obviously. Trimble maybe? Cronin possibly.

benb

believe it or not..sean o'brien doesn't have one, hence he was close to a move to stade francais....the irfu and the wisdom of declan kidney chose to renew david wallace's central contract rather than giving o'brien one

CIARAN_BOYLE

Podge_irl wrote: »

Out of sheer curiosity, does anyone know how many players going to NZ aren't on central contracts, and how many players on them are being left behind. I assume Fitz and TOL are the only two left behind. McFadden presumably doesn't have one, but who else?

Doesn't hayes have one till the end of the WC

As to players going without one

Cronin
Buckley
Donnacha Ryan
SOB
Leamy?
Murray
Boss
Murphy
McFadden

GerM

About 2 years ago the IRFU began to trim the central contracts heavily which saw the likes of Stringer, Horan and D'Arcy removed from them. I believe at the time the aim was to reduce the number from 30 to 21. From the travelling party there are several that aren't on them and a few not travelling e.g. Fitz, Hayes, TOL that are on them.

Glancing at your list there, Ciarán, Leamy and Buckley are both on them. Think you're right with the rest of them. You can add D'Arcy, Bowe, Reddan and I think Court and possibly Cullen also.

JustinDee

benb wrote: »

believe it or not..sean o'brien doesn't have one, hence he was close to a move to stade francais....the irfu and the wisdom of declan kidney chose to renew david wallace's central contract rather than giving o'brien one

So what made Sean O'Brien stay then? A Leinster contract. Thats Leinster, as in the branch of IRFU Leinster. And David Wallace also stays. I'd say thats pretty good work given the cash amounts being flashed by privately-owned French rugby millionaire playthings.

skregs

JustinDee wrote: »

So what made Sean O'Brien stay then? A Leinster contract. Thats Leinster, as in the branch of IRFU Leinster. And David Wallace also stays. I'd say thats pretty good work given the cash amounts being flashed by privately-owned French rugby millionaire playthings.

Provincial contracts have much smaller numbers on them than central contracts however

GerM

skregs wrote: »

Provincial contracts have much smaller numbers on them than central contracts however

Not necessarily although it is a general rule of thumb for Irish players but there are players who are still on a serious wedge at the provinces. For instance, the NIQ players are some very big earners. Stan Wright was on serious dough and Botha is on major money down south according to reports. Irish players that aren't centrally contracted can still be on very good money. It's hard to say when there are bonus payments etc. built into contracts. SOB might not be on a central contract but I'm sure he's seeing some very good money. I doubt he's on any less than the likes of Trimble or Leamy who are both centrally contracted.

JustinDee

skregs wrote: »

Provincial contracts have much smaller numbers on them than central contracts however

A central contract does not equate to an automatically higher amount compared to a provincial contract.
In addition, the only amounts in public domain are based upon assumption and rumour unless stated.

Thud

JustinDee wrote: »

A central contract does not equate to an automatically higher amount compared to a provincial contract.
In addition, the only amounts in public domain are based upon assumption and rumour unless stated.

i'm sure there are a few McIlroy supplemented Ulster contracts that are higher than the central ones

jacothelad

GerM wrote: »

About 2 years ago the IRFU began to trim the central contracts heavily which saw the likes of Stringer, Horan and D'Arcy removed from them. I believe at the time the aim was to reduce the number from 30 to 21. From the travelling party there are several that aren't on them and a few not travelling e.g. Fitz, Hayes, TOL that are on them.

Glancing at your list there, Ciarán, Leamy and Buckley are both on them. Think you're right with the rest of them. You can add D'Arcy, Bowe, Reddan and I think Court and possibly Cullen also.

I knew Buckley was on one, laughably imo. Surely, since his move to sale he no longer benefits from the largesse.

Central contracts allow the IRFU to dictate how a player is used by his province and removes the burden of paying high priced players from them and keeps them in Ireland. Hence, for example, in Munster's heyday, when they had, Wally, Foley, Horan, Hayes, POC, DOC, MOD, Strings, ROG, TOL et al on the IRFU payroll, this left wedges of cash to be used for other things, i.e. not going straight to wages. It always struck me as being a little unfair on Connacht and Ulster to a degree, who had to shell out for all or most of their squad. Still, life rewards excellence. It's hard to think really of a better way. i'm not sure however that giving Wally and ROG two year extensions was all that smart. One year with an option would have been the more pragmatic way.

JustinDee

jacothelad wrote: »

I knew Buckley was on one, laughably imo. Surely, since his move to sale he no longer benefits from the largesse.

Central contracts allow the IRFU to dictate how a player is used by his province and removes the burden of paying high priced players from them and keeps them in Ireland. Hence, for example, in Munster's heyday, when they had, Wally, Foley, Horan, Hayes, POC, DOC, MOD, Strings, ROG, TOL et al on the IRFU payroll, this left wedges of cash to be used for other things, i.e. not going straight to wages. It always struck me as being a little unfair on Connacht and Ulster to a degree, who had to shell out for all or most of their squad

They are still funded branches of the one sporting body.

jacothelad wrote: »

i'm not sure however that giving Wally and ROG two year extensions was all that smart. One year with an option would have been the more pragmatic way.

The player themselves also have a say in the matter. It isn't a one-sided agreement.

jacothelad

JustinDee wrote: »

They are still funded branches of the one sporting body.


The player themselves also have a say in the matter. It isn't a one-sided agreement.

Of course they are but the funding became wildly unequal because of central contracts.

Of course the players had the option not to sign a contract and the IRFU had the option not to offer it. Do you really think it appropriate that they should have been awarded two year extensions post the RWC? Maybe they want to keep going for the next Lions tour.:)

phog

benb wrote: »

believe it or not..sean o'brien doesn't have one, hence he was close to a move to stade francais....the irfu and the wisdom of declan kidney chose to renew david wallace's central contract rather than giving o'brien one

Kind of agree about SOB not getting a central contract but for the life of me I cant see why you want it at the expense of Wally.

I assume those players not on central contracts get extra payments while being in camp and on tour an for playing international games.

CIARAN_BOYLE

jacothelad wrote: »

i'm not sure however that giving Wally and ROG two year extensions was all that smart. One year with an option would have been the more pragmatic way.

Wallace only got one year which is fine imo

http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/news/13784.php
http://www.munsterrugby.ie/news/8695.php

I do agree a two contract wouldn't have been smart

molloyjh

JustinDee wrote: »

So what made Sean O'Brien stay then? A Leinster contract. Thats Leinster, as in the branch of IRFU Leinster. And David Wallace also stays. I'd say thats pretty good work given the cash amounts being flashed by privately-owned French rugby millionaire playthings.

It is alright. I don't think SOB has any interest in leaving Ireland though. He still coaches one of the Tullow teams doesn't he? Apparently he's still really involved there and always intends to be. He seems to be the kind of fella to just say "No you're grand, I'm ok as I am here thanks" and leave it at that.

MaryKing

jacothelad wrote: »

Of course they are but the funding became wildly unequal because of central contracts.

Of course the players had the option not to sign a contract and the IRFU had the option not to offer it. Do you really think it appropriate that they should have been awarded two year extensions post the RWC? Maybe they want to keep going for the next Lions tour.:)

Players like Ronan & David Wallace, coming to the end of their international career, but still valued by their clubs, might consider international rugby not worth it, particularly if they have young families. Both of those players have young children and will have been away from home in camp for about 6 months this year. David Humphreys resigned from international rugby while still continuing to play for Ulster. Ireland could have done with David Humphreys at the last world cup. Since Ireland are fairly light on backup for Ronan & David Wallace, I'd presume that is why they got central contract extensions.

I'd imagine that in the case of these two players, Munster would pay them more or less what they are asking for. The important thing for the IRFU was to make sure that both of them will make themselves available for international duty for the next year or so, even if it is to sit on the bench.

val_jester

GerM wrote: »

About 2 years ago the IRFU began to trim the central contracts heavily which saw the likes of Stringer, Horan and D'Arcy removed from them. I believe at the time the aim was to reduce the number from 30 to 21. From the travelling party there are several that aren't on them and a few not travelling e.g. Fitz, Hayes, TOL that are on them.

Glancing at your list there, Ciarán, Leamy and Buckley are both on them. Think you're right with the rest of them. You can add D'Arcy, Bowe, Reddan and I think Court and possibly Cullen also.

Buckley and d'arcy don't have central contracts. Buckley is a sale player and as such the irfu have no control over his contract. He wasn't offered a new contract by the irfu after the ospreys match in the hec and took a sale one instead of the munster one for personal reasons.

JustinDee

molloyjh wrote: »

It is alright. I don't think SOB has any interest in leaving Ireland though. He still coaches one of the Tullow teams doesn't he? Apparently he's still really involved there and always intends to be. He seems to be the kind of fella to just say "No you're grand, I'm ok as I am here thanks" and leave it at that.

Never relax on such an assumption. People in Australia thought George Gregan and Toutai Kefu would do the same.

Podge_irl

JustinDee wrote: »

They are still funded branches of the one sporting body.

Does the amount of funding Leinster and Munster get in any way depend on the number of central contracts they have? i.e. if one team has 15 players on central contracts and the other 10 do they both receive the same level of funding from the IRFU, putting the team with 15 at an advantage?

JustinDee

Podge_irl wrote: »

Does the amount of funding Leinster and Munster get in any way depend on the number of central contracts they have? i.e. if one team has 15 players on central contracts and the other 10 do they both receive the same level of funding from the IRFU, putting the team with 15 at an advantage?

As there are numerous ways of earning revenue, there would be no singular way of funding applicable ie. each case on its own merits.

phog

JustinDee wrote: »

As there are numerous ways of earning revenue, there would be no singular way of funding applicable ie. each case on its own merits.

Ah, that explains it

danthefan

The provinces earn significant amounts of money themselves it should be pointed out, hundreds of thousands of tickets sold every season between Leinster and Munster, tens of thousands of jersies, etc.

CIARAN_BOYLE

The IRFU doesn't really put much money into the provinces other than central contracts and specials loans for big projects (thomond) I think

Podge_irl

danthefan wrote: »

The provinces earn significant amounts of money themselves it should be pointed out, hundreds of thousands of tickets sold every season between Leinster and Munster, tens of thousands of jersies, etc.

Ah I know. And Leinster and Munster are no doubt reaping huge benefits from their big season ticket holder numbers and large games. But I thought the IRFU gave them both a bursary (for want of a better word) and I was just wondering if it had any conditions attached.

joseywhales

JustinDee wrote: »

Never relax on such an assumption. People in Australia thought George Gregan and Toutai Kefu would do the same.

Ah man's gotto make a living in fairness, so long as he's still fit to win the town's Cup anyway.

Winters

From Leinster thread a few months ago:

Clegg wrote: »

It must be politics at work here. I refuse to believe that the IRFU are this incompetent. Leamy has been dogged by injury over the last few years and is now in his 30's. There is no way they can actually believe that he's one of the best backrow's we have in this country.

Ive a sneaky suspicion that the IRFU have known about Leamy for quite some time and either through insurance or tax reasons they gave him his central contract back in Feb in full knowledge that he'll be retiring. Would anyone know if there are valid reasons for giving him his extension in this case?

durkadurka

I dont see any tax reason why a central contract is different to a provincial contract.
I suspect the insurance might have been a factor.

Morf

Wouldn't that amount to fraud though?

durkadurka

Erm.... Couldn't possibly comment

Can we get a list of guys on central contracts?

Ones that shouldn't be include
DOC
D'Arcy
Leamy
Wallace
ROG (shouldn't have been 2 years)
TOL

Should all central contracts only be for 1 year? Centrally contracted players, whether we like it or not, are far and away more likely to be selected to represent Ireland instead of their "less lucky" counterparts. But is 2+ years far too long to be 'certain' of a player's worth-of-involvement with the national squad?

DOC is more likely to be selected as the subbing second row than any young player during the rest of his 2 year :eek: contract. From a business perspective, it makes okay sense (purely money wise), but from a reality perspective, it's beyond baffling.

Reduce the max contract available to any player to 1 year, and we may not delete this problem, but at least we'll lessen it's effect on our negative squad progression.

trackguy

Deleted User wrote: »

Should all central contracts only be for 1 year?

Maybe for any player over a certain age - 30?

There's no reason that Sexton (for example) shouldn't get a 2 year deal at his age.