One bike to for commuting, training and a bit of A4 racing?

coolbeans

I've been looking for one bike that'll adequately do all three and so far I've come up with this; the Moda Bolero. It seems to fit the bill and meets my budget. The only things I'd be worried about are the Microshift gear system and the American Classic victory wheels neither of which I have any experience of. I've gotta say I like it. For me and my needs it does it all. It looks decent, isn't a generic name, will take a rack and mudguards and will likely be adequate for the odd race.
I've looked at Kinesis T2 but for value the Moda seems a great deal. Opinions?

07Lapierre

Whats your budget?

coolbeans

1000 Euro.

Lumen

I had a bike like that a couple of years ago, a Kinesis Racelight TK.

I sold it (to Gavin the mod, I think) as it was too small, but otherwise I found it a nice enough bike, although it didn't feel particularly special.

The long headtube might be an issue for racing. Do you have a geometry chart?

lennymc

does it have to be a new bike?

coolbeans

Lumen wrote: »

The long headtube might be an issue for racing. Do you have a geometry chart?

No, unfortunately I can't find a geometry chart. Why would the headtube be an issue for racing? I know it's not an out and out racer by any stretch but are there any rules that would prevent me from racing it? I've raced before, and lost handsomely and I'm pretty sure the length of the headtube had little to do with it. I looked at the Kinesis too but it's outspecced by the Moda.

PS - the bike does not have to be new but it must meet all the requirements listed.

coolbeans

delete

coolbeans

...also, there are no Kinesis dealers anywhere near me.

Lumen

coolbeans wrote: »

No, unfortunately I can't find a geometry chart. Why would the headtube be an issue for racing? I know it's not an out and out racer by any stretch but are there any rules that would prevent me from racing it?

Only that a tall head tube often suggests a relaxed geometry which would not be a common choice for racing, for reasons of handling and aerodynamics.

lennymc

would a compact chainset be a disadvantage in a race situation?

Lemag

What height are you coolbeans? Your best bet might be to find a suitable one off deal on, say, a 2010 model. I started this thread when I was searching for a bike recently. I scoured the sites listed and suggested and came out with a CAAD 9 with 105 for 980 delivered. Having said that, it's missing the bolt for the seatpost clamp :rolleyes:

Lumen

lennymc wrote: »

would a compact chainset be a disadvantage in a race situation?

Not really, since 50x11 is plenty and you'll probably only ever use the small ring in a hillclimb.

coolbeans

Lemag wrote: »

What height are you coolbeans? Your best bet might be to find a suitable one off deal on, say, a 2010 model. I started this thread when I was searching for a bike recently. I scoured the sites listed and suggested and came out with a CAAD 9 with 105 for 980 delivered. Having said that, it's missing the bolt for the seatpost clamp :rolleyes:

I'm 6'1 and a bit. I don't think a CAAD 9 will take muddies or a rack either.
In any case I think I'm well off the stage where the length of me headtube will be the difference between winning and losing.

Lumen

coolbeans wrote: »

In any case I think I'm well off the stage where the length of me headtube will be the difference between winning and losing.

Sure, but it might make the difference between you clinging on or getting dropped. :pac:

coolbeans

True, I'm getting ahead of myself admittedly.

Lemag

coolbeans wrote: »

I'm 6'1 and a bit. I don't think a CAAD 9 will take muddies or a rack either.

I wasn't actually suggesting that you get a CAAD 9. In any case, there's only a triple left on the site where I bought it from. I was suggesting the approach which I took. You might get more for your money by looking for once-off deals. CRC were doing 10% off all orders exceeding £75 yesterday. It's a bit late to tell you that now though.

chakattack

Lumen wrote: »

Not really, since 50x11 is plenty and you'll probably only ever use the small ring in a hillclimb.

I have to disagree, 50 x 11 is fine until you're on a fast descent against someone with 53 x 11.

The vast majority of people racing use 39/53.

And riding a standard chainset is better for building strength.

coolbeans

I do actually prefer a standard cranksets it's what I was used to. I find I'm hunting for gears on a compact. Ah well, back to the search...

Lumen

chakattack wrote: »

I have to disagree, 50 x 11 is fine until you're on a fast descent against someone with 53 x 11.

50x11 is 68.6kph@120rpm. At that speed you're likely to go faster if you stop pedalling and tuck, unless perhaps it's a very shallow, straight descent which I've not come across in an Irish race. If high gearing mattered in mass start racing people would run 54t chainrings or larger.

chakattack wrote: »

The vast majority of people racing use 39/53.

Sure, for a dedicated race bike why would you choose anything else? This is not a dedicated race bike.

chakattack wrote: »

And riding a standard chainset is better for building strength.

That is just plain nonsense.

chakattack

Lumen wrote: »

50x11 is 68.6kph@120rpm. At that speed you're likely to go faster if you stop pedalling and tuck, unless perhaps it's a very shallow, straight descent which I've not come across in an Irish race. If high gearing mattered in mass start racing people would run 54t chainrings or larger.



Sure, for a dedicated race bike why would you choose anything else? This is not a dedicated race bike.



That is just plain nonsense.

Tucking is good but as soon as you start to pedal again at > 65kph you'll spin out on a compact rather than having some resistance to generate power against.

If you can only have one, the perfect bike for commuting, training and racing is a (well loved) race bike.

Technically it is nonsense but practically not having a lower bail out gear when training in the hills will force you to push rather than spin and that builds strength.

blorg

Spinning is better technique. You can still do strength drills. Not having the easier gears forces bad technique on you.

A compact is no major disadvantage amateur racing either. I have raced on mine when I wasn't arsed changing it back. The issue is not the gearing but the abrubt shift between the rings which is a lot smoother on a standard. Most Irish races you are in the big ring most of the time anyway. YES a standard is better- if you are ONLY using it for racing. For any other use, compact.

My own suggestion would be get a proper carbon road bike, PX, Canyon, Focus or whatever comes in budget, (and yes it it worth €100-200 more for the carbon) and use a saddlebag for the commute. I have done week long cycles like that. Best option if you can only have one bike IMO and heavy loads aren't necessary (and even then a trailer is possible.)

You won't fit good racer together with heavy load for commuting so forget getting something that does neither job well. If I had to compromise I would compromise on the commute function, not the race/training one.

Coronal

chakattack wrote: »

Technically it is nonsense but practically not having a lower bail out gear when training in the hills will force you to push rather than spin and that builds strength.

Not before it makes your knees asplode. There's a lot to be said for banishing gear fear, but it's probably better (for the rest of their requirements) to get a compact. Upgrading to a standard later isn't exactly a difficult thing, if it turns out the OP is getting dropped due to not having a high enough gear.

blorg

No one has ever been dropped from an A4 race for not having a high enough gear. I pulled that straight out of my ass, but I sincerely believe it.

Coronal

blorg wrote: »

No one has ever been dropped from an A4 race for not having a high enough gear. I pulled that straight out of my ass, but I sincerely believe it.

I need to work on my deadpan posting voice :rolleyes:

coolbeans

So...can anyone suggest a bike for around the E1000 mark that'll take muddies, a rack and that I can commute on, train and possibly race?

Coronal

Kona Honky Tonk? I think it's the same as the paddy wagon, but with gears. I have the latter, and it's a great bike. Also, this appears to have full rack mounts. It does have the long drop brakes, so you can run it with 25 mm tyres and full mudguards, maybe 28 mm tyres.

Kav0777

How about Ribble's winter training bike:

http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/publish.asp?what=specialedition&page=1rw

or Wiggles Verenti Kilmeston

Both come eyelets for mudguards.

Idleater

coolbeans wrote: »

So...can anyone suggest a bike for around the E1000 mark that'll take muddies, a rack and that I can commute on, train and possibly race?

from here

Idleater wrote: »

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-FMpIi3F1-zA/Tk6pGSoICLI/AAAAAAAACEE/DiQyKEaIZes/s800/IMG_2043.JPG
Spec is: Soma Road Sport (Tange Prestige steel) frameset, SRAM Rival (compact), Mavic Ksyrium Equipe and LBS bits n bobs finishing kit.

Size and angles of frame is basically exactly the same as my race bike (3mm longer chain stays I think) with the idea being to have the same size bike for commuting and winter training with the same gearing mechanism etc so the transition between the two is minimal.

You could go for a cheaper groupset and cheaper wheelset to bring the price down.

coolbeans

That Soma is so pretty...

coolbeans

Kav0777 wrote: »

How about Ribble's winter training bike:

http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/publish.asp?what=specialedition&page=1rw

or Wiggles Verenti Kilmeston

Both come eyelets for mudguards.

I looked at the Kilmeston and I don't like the looks much. Vain I know, but I'll forgive a lot bar aesthetic failings.
The Ribble leaves me a bit cold for some reason. Any opinions on the Moda Bolero? Not bad looking and a decent spec no? Can be bought for 900 sterling.

coolbeans

@Idleater, How much did the Soma set you back, it's beautiful. It definitely wasn't a grand anyway. I was looking online, they only sell frames correct?

Lumen

coolbeans wrote: »

Any opinions on the Moda Bolero? Not bad looking and a decent spec no? Can be bought for 900 sterling.

It makes me think of a Bolero jacket. That's bad.

coolbeans

Thanks Lumen, aside from bike chic I was completely ignorant of fashion until now. Now I know what a bolero jacket is and I have to agree that that is bad.
Thanks for that.

velo.2010

Lumen wrote: »

It makes me think of a Bolero jacket. That's bad.

Isn't it sad that I know that photo was taken on the southside of the quays on the Liverpool docks where they used to film 'This Morning'.:o

Idleater

coolbeans wrote: »

@Idleater, How much did the Soma set you back, it's beautiful. It definitely wasn't a grand anyway. I was looking online, they only sell frames correct?

I got it through my LBS (Staggs in Lucan) for ~€550 frame and fork with the fork ordered seperately because I wanted a carbon fork with eyelets for mudguards. I was also looking at the Dolan Prefisio which was working out at pretty much the same price (maybe €100 less) but decided on Steel as opposed to Aluminium because I preferred the look of the frame.

The RoadSport (Smoothie) that I got is the "race" bike with the ES and lugged es version using a 57mm brake and being another €100 - €150 for the frame.

I think Soma have some international dealers with some in Australia who might be worth a call.

velo.2010

Boardman Road Comp from Halfords for e999. Comes with a full carbon fork, something which you don't usually see on bikes at this price point. That should mean extra comfort. SRAM Apex gearing with FSA Gossamer Compact chainset. Internal brake cable for rear brake and I presume has clearance for mudguards.

To note I raced on Last years Road Comp model as well as using it for winter training. Worked well!

http://www.halforeds.ie/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_11101_catalogId_15551_productId_777713_langId_-1_categoryId_212536

Lusk Doyle

blorg wrote: »

No one has ever been dropped from an A4 race for not having a high enough gear. I pulled that straight out of my ass, but I sincerely believe it.

I have!

blorg

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

I have!

I'd argue you were dropped for having inadaquate cadence.

coolbeans

Idleater wrote: »

I got it through my LBS (Staggs in Lucan) for ~€550 frame and fork with the fork ordered seperately because I wanted a carbon fork with eyelets for mudguards. I was also looking at the Dolan Prefisio which was working out at pretty much the same price (maybe €100 less) but decided on Steel as opposed to Aluminium because I preferred the look of the frame.

The RoadSport (Smoothie) that I got is the "race" bike with the ES and lugged es version using a 57mm brake and being another €100 - €150 for the frame.

I think Soma have some international dealers with some in Australia who might be worth a call.

Thanks for your response. Your bike is very pretty but I'm no longer in Australia.

Idleater

coolbeans wrote: »

Thanks for your response. Your bike is very pretty but I'm no longer in Australia.

No bother, I just presumed from your profile

Location: Perth, Western Australia.
Posts: 1,127

If you are back in Ireland I know Staggs have built a couple of different Soma's.

By all accounts anyway, the frames are "available". The most recent problem has been a delay due to availability of Japanese steel after the earthquake/tsunami.

coolbeans

Gotta say now I'm strongly thinking of building my own bike now. I'm thinking steel, with rack and mudguard eyelets, carbon fork, geometry that's aggressive enough for racing but on the comfy side, beautiful and a budget of E1100 and not a penny more...hmmm...:cool:

Lumen

coolbeans wrote: »

Gotta say now I'm strongly thinking of building my own bike now. I'm thinking steel, with rack and mudguard eyelets, carbon fork, geometry that's aggressive enough for racing but on the comfy side, beautiful and a budget of E1100 and not a penny more...hmmm...:cool:

Just read the following review in CP...

It blows your budget completely, the fork is steel and I have no idea about the eyelets.

Still, cool name. :pac:



http://www.tokyofixedgear.com/products/154-Road-Frames/3564-Cherubim---Piuma---Silver/

chakattack

Coronal wrote: »

Not before it makes your knees asplode. There's a lot to be said for banishing gear fear, but it's probably better (for the rest of their requirements) to get a compact. Upgrading to a standard later isn't exactly a difficult thing, if it turns out the OP is getting dropped due to not having a high enough gear.

This whole knee explosion thing is over hyped! You can always stand if your cadence is dropping below 60.

I still stand by the opinion that standard is the best option for Irish racing and would wager that no A1's or 2's use a compact (except for hill climb champs etc.)

coolbeans

Lumen wrote: »

coolbeans wrote: »

Gotta say now I'm strongly thinking of building my own bike now. I'm thinking steel, with rack and mudguard eyelets, carbon fork, geometry that's aggressive enough for racing but on the comfy side, beautiful and a budget of E1100 and not a penny more...hmmm...:cool:

Just read the following review in CP...

It blows your budget completely, the fork is steel and I have no idea about the eyelets.

Still, cool name. :pac:



http://www.tokyofixedgear.com/products/154-Road-Frames/3564-Cherubim---Piuma---Silver/

Coronal

chakattack wrote: »

This whole knee explosion thing is over hyped! You can always stand if your cadence is dropping below 60.

I still stand by the opinion that standard is the best option for Irish racing and would wager that no A1's or 2's use a compact (except for hill climb champs etc.)

Spinning out in an A4 race is overhyped. So there :pac: The fact that the bike would be used in Winter, in cold conditions, increases the chance of damage.

Yes, if you have a dedicated race bike, why would you put a compact on it? At that point, you probably have a training bike anyway. But for an entry level bike, which has multiple duties, then why not? With a bit of practice, 150 rpm is easily possible to maintain for short bursts.

I doubt 6% higher gearing will be the deciding factor in being dropped/winning. That's not a lot more spinning, less than 10 rpm more. It makes no difference, really, I just disagree with your assertion that a 50 is impossible to race on.