Realities of practicing in the US

J77

Hi All,

Just wondering what are the steps necessary to practice law in the US. We'll say california/NY bar for simplicity sake (probably the 2 places I'd like to go anyway!)

So after graduating In Ireland with a law degree one would go and do either of the respective bar exams, correct? Does one immediately seek employment as an associate after passing the exams or is there a training contract/apprenticeship process there too?

Presumably this method is extremely difficult considering one would be younger than the american competitors (who would be past 25 with college and law school behind them) and coming from Ireland and having no proper practical training (bar internships) would I be correct in saying one would be at quite a disadvantage?

Does anyone know anyone with an Irish law degree or Kings inns/blackhall qualification who has gone to the states successfully?

Thanks!

crystalmice

Basically just sit the bar (New york and california being the only places you could do that) and then apply for jobs! There is no trainee phase. Most American associates get their position by having done a summer associate position in the summer before final year. Particularly now when firms are not hiring as much, its extremely difficult to get a full time position without having done a summer associateship first. Its basically a well paid two month interview, with a job offer being made at the end of it (hopefully).
If you have no practical experience you will find it very difficult to get a permanent position; because you go straight in as an associate they need to know you have some clue of how legal practice actually works!
To be honest, the best way to get into US firms is to apply for summer positions, but even then it is highly competative and I doubt they will be willing to take someone who has no US law school behind them...
The main route that foreign trained lawyers take is to do an LLM for 1 year in a mid-tier US law school. This will make the bar far easier (I know a few Irish people who have tried the NY bar without any prior US law school and they all failed, its a VERY hard exam). The LLM programmes will help with recruitment too- most will get you at least one 'clinic' module that will give you practical experience, then you can us the schools connections to get an internship over the summer. Also, there is a big annual foreign lawyer recruitment drive called the New York jobs fair, which is for firms looking for foreign grads, but I think you need to be in an LLM to go to it.
So basically, if you are serious about practicing there I think you would need to seriously consider an LLM in the US somewhere.
Luck!

J77

Thanks for the reply. A challenging path no doubt but I think one I will definitely look into further. Do you know if there are any modular requirements to do the bar exams or an LLM or is a law degree just that in their eyes?

Scarlet 27

In relation to doing a master this a great website and the forum in the USA section is great for doing research on both masters and New York bar http://www.llm-guide.com/.

From what I have heard the New York bar is not meant to be as bad as the FE1'S (I was told this from someone who lectures in both courses) although is is meant to be very hard. I have pre ordered some books for the exam and it seems ok to be honest.

Re the jobs position from what I have read on the llm-guide foreign lawyers are having a very hard time of it in the states. I have read on numerous occasions that LLM grads from top ivy league colleges are not getting hired before American JD students. This is something you need to take into account before doing a masters as they are so much more expensive over there and realistically you need to be heading to one of the top schools if you want to get a well paying job in NY. Also some of the top schools require a couple of years experience before applying but I guess if your results are good enough there is always a chance you might get in anyway.

However an alternative that I am looking into is to do the New York bar with a view to getting a job in London in an American law firm. One they pay very well and two they like people with knowledge of American law. However I am unsure if you would need to be qualified here or at the very least have some practical experience in a law firm for that plan to work.

J77

Scarlet 27 wrote: »

In relation to doing a master this a great website and the forum in the USA section is great for doing research on both masters and New York bar http://www.llm-guide.com/.

From what I have heard the New York bar is not meant to be as bad as the FE1'S (I was told this from someone who lectures in both courses) although is is meant to be very hard. I have pre ordered some books for the exam and it seems ok to be honest.

Re the jobs position from what I have read on the llm-guide foreign lawyers are having a very hard time of it in the states. I have read on numerous occasions that LLM grads from top ivy league colleges are not getting hired before American JD students. This is something you need to take into account before doing a masters as they are so much more expensive over there and realistically you need to be heading to one of the top schools if you want to get a well paying job in NY. Also some of the top schools require a couple of years experience before applying but I guess if your results are good enough there is always a chance you might get in anyway.

However an alternative that I am looking into is to do the New York bar with a view to getting a job in London in an American law firm. One they pay very well and two they like people with knowledge of American law. However I am unsure if you would need to be qualified here or at the very least have some practical experience in a law firm for that plan to work.

Yes they certainly pay well - Sullivan & Cromwell, Skadden and Bingham McCutchen all have NQ salaries in the region of 100k. I think Id prefer do American-london than Magic circle. If you're looking at practicing in the UK you would be much better off going to do LPC. I think alot of the aforementioned firms are far from satellite offices so I think LPC would be more important than NY bar. No doubt the NY bar would put you at an advantage though. I'm going to be applying for london firm TCs this year too but the US option would be more in the line of my dream career.

evercloserunion

I have friends who have just sat the bar exams, but none who are actually practicing as of yet. Any experience I have of what it's like as a junior lawyer in the US comes from reading the Law section on Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/law. That site has a lot of discussion by US students and newly qualifieds, as well as links to articles on the jobs climate over there. There's also http://www.reddit.com/r/lawschool which is less active. Unfortunately, the picture painted seems to be fairly bleak. There's a lot of pessimism, but remember that most of those posting are burdened with massive law school debt which you presumably don't have to deal with (at least to the same extent). I'd say have a read over a few of the posts and linked articles there. You could even post there asking for advice.

The good news is that I've heard taking the NY bar exams will stand you in good stead wherever you decide to pursue your career. I have spoken to lawyers in Irish firms who took the exams, and said they would recommend it to anyone.

kosmos81

I've taken both the NY bar exam (July 2011) and the FE1 exams a number of years ago. I can tell you with absolute certainty that the NY bar exam is not as difficult as the Black hall exams. However, it is an exceptionally difficult exam.

There are preparatory course that you can take in Dublin and by correspondence, if you're willing to pay EUR4500 for these. I can give you more tips etc if you want to PM me, otherwise there is loads of info on the NY bar on www.seperac.com