New Maynooth train timetable?

Davexirl

I overheard a woman on the train yesterday evening who said the man in Louisa Bridge said look out for a new timetable coming soon, with some services being cut!!!

Anyone else heard this???

LXFlyer

There was a full consultation exercise from May-July on the Irish Rail website where the proposed timetable was published.

No significant cuts to/from Maynooth, with the main changes on the western line being that M3 Parkway services would operate to/from Connolly if I recall correctly during the day and would serve all stations en route and they would be cut back to hourly off-peak.

I'd imagine that the changes will happen sometime in September/October.

foggy_lad

Instead of cutting services they should have some way to stop Maynooth bound commuters using the Sligo trains which would leave more seats for long distance travellers.

n97 mini

foggy_lad wrote: »

Instead of cutting services they should have some way to stop bound commuters using the Sligo trains which would leave more seats for long distance travellers.

That's a very Irish way of thinking.

Instead, why not make the commuter services more attractive and win back those customers.

A few express services between city City Centre and Leixlip/Maynooth would do the trick. It's done elsewhere, including in NI, to/from Bangor for example.

Jehuty42

n97 mini wrote: »

That's a very Irish way of thinking.

Instead, why not make the commuter services more attractive and win back those customers.

A few express services between city City Centre and Leixlip/Maynooth would do the trick. It's done elsewhere, including in NI, to/from Bangor for example.

I think the way things are at the moment is just fine. The vast majority of the demand is to and from Clonsilla and Coolmine, so express services to Maynooth would be lowly patronised. "Commuters" are one of the main users of the Sligo intercity service, after Longford there is a big drop in usage. Also consider that with the current frequencies, Sligo trains have to stop at every station with a passing loop, so they may as well open the doors.

The Maynooth/Sligo line is one the best on the network. It doesn't need overhaul, and I say that as a daily commuter on it.

n97 mini

Jehuty42 wrote: »

I think the way things are at the moment is just fine. The vast majority of the demand is to and from Clonsilla and Coolmine, so express services to Maynooth would be lowly patronised.

I don't know how you work out that. Peak hour morning trains from Maynooth are full by Leixlip Confey.

Cool Mo D

There are also several hour-long gaps between trains off peak. An off peak half-hourly clockface Maynooth - Connolly, along with half hourly clockface Pace M3 - Connolly would give DART levels of service along most of the line.

patrickbrophy18

Cool Mo D wrote: »

There are also several hour-long gaps between trains off peak. An off peak half-hourly clockface Maynooth - Connolly, along with half hourly clockface Pace M3 - Connolly would give DART levels of service along most of the line.

Cool Mo D, this is a very sensible solution indeed as the level of service for such a heavily populated corridor is abysmal. Additionally, the clock-face timetable that you are proposing for these corridors can easily be plugged into the clock-face DART timetable.

About a month ago, I walked from town to Castleknock and then to Ashtown via The Royal Canal (I do walks as part of my exercise and decided to try a different walk well away from the DLRCC!:D). The reason why I walked from Castleknock to Ashtown was to kill some time because I would otherwise be waiting an hour for the next train.:mad:

I went into the Superquinn in Ashtown with a view to getting the right change for the ticket machine. When I left, the gates had closed which prevented me from being able to get a ticket in time, resulting in me missing the train I waited an hour to get. The next one was not for another 45 minutes:mad::mad:

I eventually resorted to getting a 37 back into town because the bus service is still miles ahead of the train. It was beginning to remind me (all too well) of how much I hated getting out to Damastown. This was at 4:30 which is the beginning of peak hour traffic.:eek:

Bottom line? A series of cuts is the last thing Irish Rail should be making to this line when gaps between services is already horrendously big!

thomasj

Services between ashtown and the city will be every 30 minutes (give or take a few minutes) in the new timetable the exception being with late night services (ie after 7pm or 8pm)

Zebra3

foggy_lad wrote: »

Instead of cutting services they should have some way to stop Maynooth bound commuters using the Sligo trains which would leave more seats for long distance travellers.

That's a whole twenty minutes someone may have to stand.

Wow!!!!

foggy_lad

Zebra3 wrote: »

That's a whole twenty minutes someone may have to stand.

Wow!!!!

Why not just stop people with tickets for maynooth getting the train and fewer people will have to stand? Maynooth is served very well by the commuter service.

n97 mini

foggy_lad wrote: »

Why not just stop people with tickets for maynooth getting the train and fewer people will have to stand? Maynooth is served very well by the commuter service.

Maynooth commuters obviously feel the Intercity service is more attractive. I would guess that's because it's quicker, as it's express, and more comfortable.

So instead of taking the caveman approach of barring them off it, maybe a more attractive commuter service would attract them off it. More attractive would mean some sort of express, and one where they don't have to stand for 40 minutes on a train sometimes reminiscent of Calcutta.

Jehuty42

n97 mini wrote: »

So instead of taking the caveman approach of barring them off it, maybe a more attractive commuter service would attract them off it. More attractive would mean some sort of express, and one where they don't have to stand for 40 minutes on a train sometimes reminiscent of Calcutta.

Come off it, standing room only on peak hour commuter trains is the norm across the world and isn't going away anytime soon. If anything Maynooth passengers have it better because they have more chance of a seat in the morning.

This discussion about how to stop short distance commuters taking shortcuts on long distance services is one that we've had before, and there's no 100% solution. Offering express services to Maynooth isn't going to work at peak times, the line is too congested to get to any reasonable speed and it cuts out D15 commuters by taking up slots that could be used for stopping services. I also seriously question the need for an express service to Maynooth- it really looks like just cutting out the most densely populated part of the route, and for what? To stop people taking an intercity train that stops in Maynooth? Why is that a problem? Why not just cut that stop then?(answer:it's a passing point so a stop is inevitable) Passengers for destinations further than Maynooth can reserve a seat and remain unaffected by these commuters.

What I would like to see:

• The improved, clockface and more regular timetable alluded to above(though I'm not quite convinced the demand is there, but still, it should at least be trialled)
• Doubling and more passing loops west of Maynooth
• As regards the commuters clogging up Sligo trains(again, I don't think this is as much of a problem as is being made out, and that such commuters are actually boosting the line's revenues), reservations are the solution. With an enforced reserved seat, intercity travellers don't have to worry about having to stand on a train full of commuters.

n97 mini

Jehuty42 wrote: »

Come off it, standing room only on peak hour commuter trains is the norm across the world

Express commuter services are the norm across the world too. E.g. Bangor to Belfast.

As I said the caveman approach of barring people from using services is not a customer-centric approach.

Jehuty42

n97 mini wrote: »

As I said the caveman approach of barring people from using services is not a customer-centric approach.

I agree, but I'd argue that cutting commuter services to D15 to offer an express service to Maynooth(which is what would have to be done given capacity on the line at peak times) isn't very customer-centric either.

Zebra3

As long as there are so few services from Dublin to Maynooth, it would be outrageous to ban commuters from using Sligo or Longford bound trains.

n97 mini

Jehuty42 wrote: »

I agree, but I'd argue that cutting commuter services to D15 to offer an express service to Maynooth(which is what would have to be done given capacity on the line at peak times) isn't very customer-centric either.

Without using a single extra train:

Some of the existing morning services from Maynooth could stop at Leixlip and Clonsilla, and then run express into Drumcondra and on.

Anyone who wanted to travel from Maynooth/Leixlip/Clonsilla to Coolmine, Castleknock, Phoenix Park, Ashtown or Broobridge could change at Clonsilla and get on one of the all-stops-to-Docklands.

Of course you could devise an ever better system if just one extra train was devoted to the service.

dowlingm

In the UK you have to pay a surcharge to use "premium" service like Heathrow Express, High Speed 1 etc.

Here in Canada if you're travelling from Toronto to Kingston by train the first stop (Guildwood) is pickup outbound/set down inbound only.

Zebra3 wrote: »

As long as there are so few services from Dublin to Maynooth, it would be outrageous to ban commuters from using Sligo or Longford bound trains.

Sounds like an argument for more trains to Maynooth, not jamming more people onto Sligo services.

n97 mini

dowlingm wrote: »

In the UK you have to pay a surcharge to use "premium" service like Heathrow Express, High Speed 1 etc.

Not for "fast" services tho. Which are nearly express. I got the fast service to Luton Airport Parkway from St Pancras today. Only one stop before Luton AP, and the same price.

foggy_lad

Jehuty42 wrote: »

Come off it, standing room only on peak hour commuter trains is the norm across the world and isn't going away anytime soon. If anything Maynooth passengers have it better because they have more chance of a seat in the morning.

This discussion about how to stop short distance commuters taking shortcuts on long distance services is one that we've had before, and there's no 100% solution. Offering express services to Maynooth isn't going to work at peak times, the line is too congested to get to any reasonable speed and it cuts out D15 commuters by taking up slots that could be used for stopping services. I also seriously question the need for an express service to Maynooth- it really looks like just cutting out the most densely populated part of the route, and for what? To stop people taking an intercity train that stops in Maynooth? Why is that a problem? Why not just cut that stop then?(answer:it's a passing point so a stop is inevitable) Passengers for destinations further than Maynooth can reserve a seat and remain unaffected by these commuters.

What I would like to see:

• The improved, clockface and more regular timetable alluded to above(though I'm not quite convinced the demand is there, but still, it should at least be trialled)
• Doubling and more passing loops west of Maynooth
• As regards the commuters clogging up Sligo trains(again, I don't think this is as much of a problem as is being made out, and that such commuters are actually boosting the line's revenues), reservations are the solution. With an enforced reserved seat, intercity travellers don't have to worry about having to stand on a train full of commuters.

Forgetting about the other stations on this commuter line Maynooth should be a pick up only stop on the intercity trains and anyone travelling on the Sligo trains should have a ticket past Maynooth or face a large fine. Also having proper ticket checking at maynooth station will stop people buying a ticket to Kilcock and jumping off in Maynooth.

We all know that the reservations service currently offered by Irish Rail is a mess and cant be relied upon on any train except maybe the cork train but even on that there is usually no staff available to remove people from your reserved seat, so saying that reserving your seat is the solution is just rubbish considering reservations rarely work on the sligo line and even then there is only one out of three cars available to reserve a seat and no staff to remove seat thieves.

dowlingm

I believe there is a similar issue to be sorted with the 1650 Enterprise ex Connolly, where because of commuters it is not possible to join the northbound train at Drogheda because it's easier to do that than have ticket checkers tell people what the rules are.

Zebra3

dowlingm wrote: »

Sounds like an argument for more trains to Maynooth, not jamming more people onto Sligo services.

I agree, but the Sligo services aren't exactly jammed any time I've been on them and Maynooth passengers are only on board for twenty minutes.

Mycroft H

foggy_lad wrote: »

Forgetting about the other stations on this commuter line Maynooth should be a pick up only stop on the intercity trains and anyone travelling on the Sligo trains should have a ticket past Maynooth or face a large fine. Also having proper ticket checking at maynooth station will stop people buying a ticket to Kilcock and jumping off in Maynooth.

We all know that the reservations service currently offered by Irish Rail is a mess and cant be relied upon on any train except maybe the cork train but even on that there is usually no staff available to remove people from your reserved seat, so saying that reserving your seat is the solution is just rubbish considering reservations rarely work on the sligo line and even then there is only one out of three cars available to reserve a seat and no staff to remove seat thieves.

Firstly a ticket to Kilcock is almost twice the price of maynooth one. In fact its more often people buy a maynooth ticket and hop off at kilcock due to to the open platform.


And why should the maynooth passengers not have an express intercity train serving them? I always enjoyed having that option of getting the express train that sometimes up to 15 minutes quicker then the commuter trains.

Plus the 2200s are faster, quieter and have sockets

dowlingm

BX 19 wrote: »

why should the maynooth passengers not have an express intercity train serving them? I always enjoyed having that option of getting the express train that sometimes up to 15 minutes quicker then the commuter trains.

That's fine - but then pay more for it.

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

Forgetting about the other stations on this commuter line Maynooth should be a pick up only stop on the intercity trains and anyone travelling on the Sligo trains should have a ticket past Maynooth or face a large fine. Also having proper ticket checking at maynooth station will stop people buying a ticket to Kilcock and jumping off in Maynooth.

We all know that the reservations service currently offered by Irish Rail is a mess and cant be relied upon on any train except maybe the cork train but even on that there is usually no staff available to remove people from your reserved seat, so saying that reserving your seat is the solution is just rubbish considering reservations rarely work on the sligo line and even then there is only one out of three cars available to reserve a seat and no staff to remove seat thieves.

You complain about passengers being find but now you want them fined for getting off at Maynooth
Seat thieves? this is the best one yet. I can see it know on crimeline "Irish Rail are looking for the safe return of one of their seats which was stolen from the Maynooth train last friday evening, "

n97 mini

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Seat thieves? this is the best one yet.

I agree with nothing Hilly Bill has to say, but Foggy, this is your worst argument yet.

Paying customers are some how thieving? :rolleyes:

foggy_lad

n97 mini wrote: »

I agree with nothing Hilly Bill has to say, but Foggy, this is your worst argument yet.

Paying customers are some how thieving? :rolleyes:

Well obviously if you have reserved a seat nobody else is entitled to sit in that seat for your journey and from a recent thread Irish rail will deny you a refund if you are not allowed board claiming your seat was unoccupied so anyone sitting in a reserved seat is stealing from the person who has paid for the seat by reserving it just the same as if you book seats at a packed concert and someone else is sitting there.

Zebra3

dowlingm wrote: »

That's fine - but then pay more for it.

Why?

People have bought a ticket for Irish Rail to get them from the city centre to Maynooth.

Why are we trying to turn people off using public transport?

n97 mini

15 miles in 25 minutes is an average of 36 mph, so it's not like Maynooth commuters on the Sligo train are availing of a super fast service either. The regular service averages about 23 mph.

Moonbeam

With out the express trains our evening commute with be bordering on unbearable.
We bought our house in Maynooth partially due to the train line. I mostly prefer getting the train places with the kids then driving and having to find parking.
I do find that this is not always an option due to the infrequency of trains especially in the evening.
I would love more express trains and an extra night train between 10 and the last one:)

foggy_lad

Moonbeam wrote: »

With out the express trains our evening commute with be bordering on unbearable.
We bought our house in Maynooth partially due to the train line. I mostly prefer getting the train places with the kids then driving and having to find parking.
I do find that this is not always an option due to the infrequency of trains especially in the evening.
I would love more express trains and an extra night train between 10 and the last one:)

Dont forget there are also reasonably high frequency busses to and from Maynooth throughout the day

n97 mini

foggy_lad wrote: »

Dont forget there are also reasonably high frequency busses to and from Maynooth throughout the day

If you're talking the 66 and the 67, they're very slow as they take scenic routes.

The 66 averages less than 15 mph and the 67 is slower again.

dowlingm

Moonbeam - I would solve your issue by ADDING extra trains, not cramming you onto InterCity services. With the new 22000s coming into commission there should be more 29000s available although the pinch point might be drivers. At the least all evening commuter trains should be 8 car length you would think.

n97 mini - unfortunately the Maynooth line has no overtaking worth talking about and too many level crossings. Hopefully as the latter are dealt with the IC trains might be able to pick it up a bit where they have clear track ahead.

I can understand why IC trains might not seem like they should attract higher fares at the moment when they are crammed full of people paying inner suburban fares. Fix that, and maybe people will appreciate why it costs more to travel farther in more comfort.

Moonbeam

foggy_lad wrote: »

Dont forget there are also reasonably high frequency busses to and from Maynooth throughout the day

We bought near the train on purpose, mostly so I would never have to use a bus:)
There are a lot of reasons why the bus is not ever going to be more then a once off option for me.

Zebra3

dowlingm wrote: »

I can understand why IC trains might not seem like they should attract higher fares at the moment when they are crammed full of people paying inner suburban fares. Fix that, and maybe people will appreciate why it costs more to travel farther in more comfort.

Well, there are plenty of people on the Sligo train who haven't paid at all.

dowlingm

Zebra3 wrote: »

Well, there are plenty of people on the Sligo train who haven't paid at all.

One problem at a time...

n97 mini

Zebra3 wrote: »

Well, there are plenty of people on the Sligo train who haven't paid at all.

Is that a reference to OAPs or fare evaders?