What one-way streets would you make two-way for cyclists?

monument

*Please do not go off topic to talk about the rights and wrongs of doing this -- you can start a new thread if you want*

As asked in the thread title: What streets that you know should be made contra-flow for cyclists?

Background: Allowing contra flow with and without lines or segregation is legal in Ireland and there have been a number of examples up and running for years in Dublin (with some mixed success, see below). The measures are also more common in other cities such as Paris and Berlin.

Dublin City Council had plans to expand the amount of contra-flow lanes but those seem to have stalled and I'm not sure of the status of DLR Co Co's plan for on in Blackrock.

Examples:

Sign posted but no lines or markings -- suitable for small streets with low speeds and where there's not enough room for two-way general traffic. Will also work on some city centre streets:



Street View: Royal Canal Bank, Phibsboro and there are other examples such as two on Terenure Road West (they look almost the same).


Sign posted and entry treatment, wider streets and, in this pictured case, two-way for all traffic after entry -- suitable for where there's more and faster traffic but the council wants to restrict motor traffic movement as in this case:



Usher Street

Short, short cuts. Bollards here could be between cycle lane and traffic lane rather than cycle lane and footpath:



St Andrews Street


Sign posted and marked. Bollards and signs for warning motorists and other cyclists that it's two-way for cyclists which they don't have may have been a good idea:


Inchicore Road


Capel Street

Designs of contra-flow lane and tracks are also listed in the NTA's Cycle Manual, here.

GusherING

There is a stretch of road on Nassau Street between the National Gallery, on Clare St/Lincoln Place and Kildare Street, where I often see cyclists heading into town cycle dangerously into oncoming traffic on Nassau St.

This would be a great spot for a contra flow lane because there is a Dublin Bikes stand on Nassau Street and it would be a good shortcut into town.

I think most cyclists take the risk here because it means they can skip cycling around Trinity College and avoid traffic on Westland Row, Pearse St, College Green and Nassau St to get into the Grafton Street area.

galwaycyclist

Galway: Earliest known discussion of providing for contraflow cycling was in a report in 1979. In 2004, our elected city coincil voted to explore making one-way streets two-way for cyclists as specific objective of the city development plan. This objective was left out of the copy of the plan published by the city officials.

Streets that could be two way immediately

1. Eyre St
2. Augustine St.
3. Nuns Island (remove some parking at top end)
4. Cross St.
5. Southern end of Abbygate St.
6. Raven Terrace
7. Flood St (Remove parking and maybe put a speed ramp at entry)
8. Cross St (remove parking)

monument

This is another current one in Dublin.

From George's Lane on to Brunswick Street North. Street View: One and two.

I'd go a bit mad without this one. It just about makes the one-way system around my new house bearable.

Ciaran_B

In Dublin, Lombard St from the corner of Pearse St as far as the Liffey. It would cut out all that one way system down Pearse St. and around Tara St.

http://maps.google.ie/maps?q=lombard+st+dublin&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wl

monument

Dublin Cycling Campaign are asking the same on their Facebook page-- http://www.facebook.com/dublincycling/posts/272519792776514

Khannie

Ciaran_B wrote: »

In Dublin, Lombard St from the corner of Pearse St as far as the Liffey. It would cut out all that one way system down Pearse St. and around Tara St.

http://maps.google.ie/maps?q=lombard+st+dublin&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wl

+1 on this. Immediately thought of it when I saw the OP.

ROK ON

Khannie wrote: »

+1 on this. Immediately thought of it when I saw the OP.

Disagree strongly. Used to work near this street and used the street every day. Its a very busy street with cars often three abreat across two lanes. The only way it could be done would be to remove the onstreet parking on one of the sides of the street - IIRC there is on street parking on both presently.

Also, how would the bikes negotiate the junction at Townsend st (presumably by having a bike filter in tandem with the pedestrian green man.

Finally the bike traffic would then filter onto the quays, where cars will travel around a corner (with not great visibility).

Its a nice idea, but knowing the street and traffic in the area, it is fraught with problems IMHO.

In the past I have used the contra flow cycle lane Inchicore. Most car traffic coming in the opposite direction to you, havent a clue (IMO) that you are legally allowed to use it on a bike.

I would not in general be in favour of contraflow bike lanes. I am well used to cycling in a city, but I just never felt at ease on the contra flow stuff - vehicles invariably get way too close.

I dont see that it ads much to the cycling experience - I mean its not as if a cyclist has to go too far out of the way to get thru town.

Khannie

Oh I wasn't talking about the practical aspect. Hadn't considered it. You do see people salmoning down that way though and when trying to get to connolly before I've wished I could just press on from westland row.

Chips Lovell

Harcourt Street.

loyatemu

+1 on Lombard St - its a PITA trying to get from the south City Centre back to the IFSC currently. The legal route is to go down Pearse St then cross 4 lanes of traffic to get onto Mark St, but as @Khannie said a lot of cyclists go against the flow anyway, often using the existing southbound cycle lane or the footpath (the DB station on the other side of Sean O'Casey bridge means there are always a lot of cyclists on that street).

It would require some engineering to make it safe and probably some extra traffic lights to allow cyclists from Westland Row to get onto Lombard St (as its not a movement that is currently catered for by the lights).

teol

The road off Aungier Street to the underground car park of DIT where the bike storage is. Pet peeve of mine

monument

I think the most problematic thing about the suggestion of using Lombard Street to connect Pearse Street to the Liffey is not on road but across the bridge -- directing cyclists towards a pedestrian bridge isn't the best idea in the world!

The city councils proposals last April included Moss Street towards the river. Not sure if it also includes Shaw Street towards Pearse Street, but it would have been strange not to.

From Moss Street, it would go to the junction with George's Quay / City Quay (from there these is contra-flow on the footpath over the bridge and segregated from path and road along the side of Custom House where it brings you to a toucan crossing (two can cross) and over to one final one). Contra-flow along Lombard Street could also meet up at this but the pedestrian bridge may be too tempting -- there's a case for it to be pedestrian priority rather than banning cyclists outright but that's another day's work.

ROK ON wrote: »

I dont see that it ads much to the cycling experience - I mean its not as if a cyclist has to go too far out of the way to get thru town.

If you don't agree with the idea of contra-flow cycle lanes to start with, it's a lot easier to be opposed to them.

There's time saving benefits both for local and longer distance cyclists and they often give people more direct routes which cuts out busier roads or the need to cross a load of lanes or cycle 10min around to get to somewhere close. It's makes it a lot easier.

ROK ON wrote: »

Disagree strongly. Used to work near this street and used the street every day. Its a very busy street with cars often three abreat across two lanes. The only way it could be done would be to remove the onstreet parking on one of the sides of the street - IIRC there is on street parking on both presently.

IF cars can fit three abreast across two lanes then there's your solution -- make the traffic lanes narrower and fit in the contra-flow lane using the space you've saved from that -- and this can be done, the current lanes along this stretch are very wide lanes. Making the lanes narrower will also have the effect of calming traffic and making the road safer for all.

If done right the parking can also be used as a barrier between traffic and the contra-flow lane, as per this video.

ROK ON wrote: »

Also, how would the bikes negotiate the junction at Townsend st (presumably by having a bike filter in tandem with the pedestrian green man.

Quite easily. The contra flow lane could go down the left side of the road heading towards the river -- that way you give a green light to cyclists going towards the river at the same time as you give it to all other traffic heading away from it.

ROK ON wrote: »

Finally the bike traffic would then filter onto the quays, where cars will travel around a corner (with not great visibility)

There would need to be toucan crossing at that junction to bring cyclists to the quay side.

ROK ON wrote: »

In the past I have used the contra flow cycle lane Inchicore. Most car traffic coming in the opposite direction to you, havent a clue (IMO) that you are legally allowed to use it on a bike.

I would not in general be in favour of contraflow bike lanes. I am well used to cycling in a city, but I just never felt at ease on the contra flow stuff - vehicles invariably get way too close.

There's a good deal of scope for better markings and better designs, including segregation using a mix of bollards, flex-bollards and kerbs.

monument

teol wrote: »

The road off Aungier Street to the underground car park of DIT where the bike storage is. Pet peeve of mine

Is this it (street view)? Then it's Bishop Street.

There's a fairly good case for that to be made two-way for cyclists as there's also an underground car park entrance to a large office building on the other side of that small street.

Given the low amount of traffic on the street and the generally low volumes, it could be done with just treatments at both sides of the street and without any lanes or at least without lanes the whole way along the street.

tomasrojo

monument wrote: »

This is another current one in Dublin.

From George's Lane on to Brunswick Street North. Street View: One and two.

I'd go a bit mad without this one. It just about makes the one-way system around my new house bearable.

Also is one of the few cycle lanes in Dublin that uses parked cars as a barrier to separate cyclists from oncoming traffic.

tomasrojo

Someone mentioned on the forum before that they'd like a contraflow to get you from the Bleeding Horse to Rathmines. I guess it would link up with the new Rathmine-to-Fairview segregated system, so it would link up two heavily cycled routes. And you do see quite a few salmon going this way, so there does seem to be a demand for it. Not sure how you'd do it though.

coolbeans

The one way bits of Talbot Street badly need a contraflow for cyclists onto Amiens Street

monument

tomasrojo wrote: »

Someone mentioned on the forum before that they'd like a contraflow to get you from the Bleeding Horse to Rathmines. I guess it would link up with the new Rathmine-to-Fairview segregated system, so it would link up two heavily cycled routes. And you do see quite a few salmon going this way, so there does seem to be a demand for it. Not sure how you'd do it though.

According to The Irish Times, these were the streets included in the council's plans: Steven’s Lane, Watling Street, Westmoreland Street / D’Olier Street, Moss Street, Leinster Street South / Nassau Street, Clarendon Street area, St Stephen’s Green, Baggot Street Lower and Merrion Row, Leeson Street Upper, Camden Street (around the Bleeding Horse), and Parnell Street.

As usual the QBN office went off and did its own thing and planned a bus only contra-flow:

http://www.dublincity.ie/RoadsandTraffic/QBNProjectOffice/Documents/Rathfarnham%20QBC%20Enhancements%20Drawing%20016%20of%20019.pdf

tomasrojo

Stephen's Green, now you mention it. Some contraflow cycle route on the very wide footpath or through the park would make that area far more friendly to cyclists.

Again, you can see the salmon at play there already; it would be better to canalise them in some way, as they're at the very least a considerable annoyance to pedestrians.

tomasrojo

The Steeven's Lane one is completely trivial and should be done straight away: just smooth the cobbles over at the bottom of the hill. It's a normal road after about thirty metres anyway.

hardCopy

The current one on Andrew's Street is a joke, I cycled and walked that way for about two years and it was blocked every morning by Wicklow tour coaches waiting outside the tourist office.

streacy

Grove Park connecting Grove Rd and Lower Rathmines Rd. It's not actually one-way but there is a "No Entry" sign on the Grove Rd end, presumably as with all the residential parking there's no room for cars to pass each other.
All that would be required would be to add an "Except bicycles" placard on the "No Entry" sign.

http://g.co/maps/f25gx

cyclopath2001

hardCopy wrote: »

The current one on Andrew's Street is a joke, I cycled and walked that way for about two years and it was blocked every morning by Wicklow tour coaches waiting outside the tourist office.

Not just tour coaches:

To be fair though, other than the double yellow lanes, the red surface and the cycle track markings, there's no sign facing drivers saying: 'do not drive or park here'.

monument

streacy wrote: »

Grove Park connecting Grove Rd and Lower Rathmines Rd. It's not actually one-way but there is a "No Entry" sign on the Grove Rd end, presumably as with all the residential parking there's no room for cars to pass each other.
All that would be required would be to add an "Except bicycles" placard on the "No Entry" sign.

http://g.co/maps/f25gx

I was going to say that's two ways but just checked the other end of the street where the no entry sign is.

Yeah, that could easily be made two-way for cyclists.

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

Not just tour coaches:

To be fair though, other than the double yellow lanes, the red surface and the cycle track markings, there's no sign facing drivers saying: 'do not drive or park here'.

Warnings for other traffic, including motorists, cyclists and pedestrians, would be a good idea.

In any case the drivers should not be parking on it, it's a solid white line. And in the case of that one St Andrew's also yellow lines along most of the street and no parking along the rest of it. The van above is parked / stopped:

• At a junction or too close to it
• Between no parking signs
• On a 24 hour mandatory cycle lane
• And maybe also just slightly kerb, thus on the footpath? -- It's hard to make out.

C-Shore

Sorry to bring up an old thread but does anyone know if this is contra flow all the way to Harcourt street or just as far as the corner of York Street?

I don't think York Street is Contra Flow, so not sure if after I go through the red cycle lane, can I continue onto Harcourt street?

Here's the Street View of the road: https://maps.google.com/?ll=53.33912,-6.261638&spn=0.000924,0.002642&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=53.339169,-6.261382&panoid=UMFuzd4JqKiKn7dcE_IWEg&cbp=12,200.28,,0,-5.93

Or in other words, is it ok to do what this guy is doing? There's no cycle lane so I'm not sure exactly how it should work and there are no blue signs for Contra Flow.
https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=53.338766,-6.262025&spn=0.001848,0.005284&t=m&z=18&layer=c&cbll=53.338695,-6.261778&panoid=6wHXL7KU1oXxFLP_HBA3LQ&cbp=12,186.46,,0,2.82

Doctor Bob

C-Shore wrote: »

Sorry to bring up an old thread but does anyone know if this is contra flow all the way to Harcourt street or just as far as the corner of York Street?

I don't think York Street is Contra Flow, so not sure if after I go through the red cycle lane, can I continue onto Harcourt street?

This one was ambiguous for a long time, but DCC recently laid down markings to clarify that the section of street at each end is not two-way for cycling- a yield symbol and a directional arrow at both ends of the red-surfaced lane (not included in Streetview as they're too recent).

If coming from Grafton Street, you can use the stretch in front of the RCSI but must turn right immediately onto York Street; if coming from Harcourt Street, you can use the RCSI stretch but must then turn left immediately onto Glovers Alley.

C-Shore

Thank you.

That's what I had thought, as I never cycled all the way up, always went right on York Street passed RCSI and then up Wexford Street instead. Always felt it was too easy to be hit as cars turn left from Cuffe Street. Also, I don't like to be adding to the problem of cyclists getting a bad name.

Haven't cycled to work since last summer so now that I'll be cycling again with the longer evenings, this road came to mind so my search led me to this thread.

Thanks for your help.