weird behaviour

LegacyUser

Thinking over some stuff my gf said about her ex, and what it might imply. Incidentally, she says very mean things about him to me, yet stays in touch. He appears to be pretty depressed and resigned and unable to move on. I suggested she stopped talking to him because she wasn't helping him at all by doing so, from what I could tell. She said no no she has no interest in him sexually and in fact even tells him about how great our sex life is.

So yeah anyway. She was with him 9 years - two in high school. She said that in high school all the other guys suddenly hated him and stopped talking to him when he got with her.

Does that actually happen? With guys? I can't think of any examples. Excluding someone for whom they have a relationship with sounds like something very bitchy girls might do. Does it happen with guys? Or does it suggest she instigated it. She certainly teased other guys while she was with him, but does it suggest she was saying **** about him then too?

She also said later in their relationship that if they went out with a group he would just sit in a corner and not join in. That he was highly possessive.
Thinking over it, sitting in a corner and not joining in doesn't really sound like possessive behaviour does it? It sounds like someone being excluded from a group. Maybe a group who have heard all about what a jealous prick he is?

I won't even say how this relates to my own situation as it would end up tl;dr no matter how succinct I aimed to be.

atedloo

atedloo wrote: »

I won't even say how this relates to my own situation as it would end up tl;dr no matter how succinct I aimed to be.

It's not exactly a PI if you don't?

LegacyUser

Maybe her ex didn't bother keeping in contact with his mates after he got a girlfriend, and that's why they started leaving him out? Blaming it all on your girlfriend is a bit rich, and your comment about women being seemingly more bitchy gives the impression that poor innocent men are at the general behest of women. Bullsh*t, I'm afraid.

To be honest, it doesn't sound you like your girlfriend (or women!) very much, why are you with her?

Maple

bluewolf wrote: »

It's not exactly a PI if you don't?

Exactly bluewolf, couldn't have said it better myself.

OP, what is your issue? I'm unsure as to what you're seeking advice on and this thread will be closed unless you clarify.

Maple

Taltos

atedloo wrote: »

even tells him about how great our sex life is.

Without knowing what your issue is I really only have one comment on your GF - she sounds like a head wrecker.
This guy is depressed over the breakup and she shares YOUR sex life with him?

OMG - what are you doing with her???

LegacyUser

Taltos wrote: »

Without knowing what your issue is I really only have one comment on your GF - she sounds like a head wrecker.
This guy is depressed over the breakup and she shares YOUR sex life with him?

OMG - what are you doing with her???

at least one of you paid attention. I'm no longer with her.

She runs on approval I think. Her previous ex disapproved of her I guess so now she needs to show how great she is to him.

My personal issue was that we lived together for a month with the idea of moving to London together. She had a friend who was letting a room but not living in it there, and was thinking of going before I'd be ready to come. She said she would let me know a week in advance and try her best to be around for my bday one way or another.

She left abruptly then. As in she decided to while we were in a supermarket getting food for the next week or two, and left the next day or two. I didnt want her to, and I didn't like the manner in which she left. I didnt go on about it or anything but I realise that she was inordinately sensitive to approval and disapproval from me.

My birthday was a few days later. She didn't come over. In fact she didn't acknowledge it apart from saying happy birthday on skype. Then she started saying very mean things, while pretending she wasn't being mean. Her attitude in general changed considerably. Hostile.

The reason she gave for going was to save money, because we were paying individual rent here, and the room in London would be rent-free. What prompted her decision was seeing that we didnt have that much.

A couple of days after my birthday she went out to meet people from a website in a group. The way she did this went against a lot of things she said to me - none of which I asked her to or even indicated I wanted. I was happy she went out and encouraged her to. It was the weekend after the riots and she was meeting complete strangers so I was a bit worried though - especially since she said she had hardly been in pubs and things at all before we were going out. She said (without me asking) that she would check in now and then and let me know if she was going to be out late. She didn't text beyond a misspelt one saying yeahg its fun at 6.40. She did stay out late. I sent her a text saying something like hope it was still going well and not to get too drunk. Later I texted her suggesting she got a cab home if she was out after dark rather than the tube. Later I textedd to say I was worried and was she ok.

I criticised her for ignoring my texts, when she knew I was worried about her over there [going out by herself, not knowing where was ok, after the riots etc], and when she had said she would. I made it very very clear that I was happy he had gone out and had fun, and that my issue was with leaving me worried, and not going out or staying late.

She became pretty hostile to me in general, and said some more really horrible stuff. She wouldnt acknowledge she was being mean. One example I can give without getting to personal is this: She said she wouldnt visit me here; I could come visit her, but stay in a hotel. I looked for clarification, and she indicated that she meant she would stay in her apartment, and made it sound like staying in the hotel with me would be just to humour me. I laughed and asked if she was joking. She said no no. I said come off it and kept laughing. She got angry and said she meant she thought a single room would be cheaper. She wouldn't admit that she was trying to be mean for that (until yesterday or so). Note that the apartment she was in was shared with one guy only, whom she said didn't respect her personal space and was inappropriate; talking about sex and things.
The things she said and did made me feel ugly hurt and small. I was extremely upset by her.

She started going out with that group almost every day then. She was inappropriately defensive about it and kept saying I had a problem with her going out. This was totally untrue and I made it very clear- I had a problem with the sudden shift from saying she wanted to have my babies and stuff like that to disregarding me altogether and not care at all.

The odd and inappropriate defensive behaviour made me suspicious. She had had a profile on a dating site before. I looked on it and she had made a new one. It said seeing someone, but it also had a bikini pic, a pic of her in a bra she had taken "for me" (cropped so only shoulders and up were visible though), said she was looking for "guys who like girls", had nothing to do in the evenings and lots of other stuff that would indicate she would like courtship rather than friendly chats. No mention of me or that she was in a relationship with someone whom she wanted to live with and marry and stuff. It also appeared to have been set up on my bday, which was when she started acting weird.

I asked her about it. She said she thought I would find it but had hoped I wouldn't. I said I'd only looked because she was acting weird the whole time. She said she wanted it to show off pretty much when I tried to get some understanding of why she put it up. She refused to apologise for it. She changed some of the things that I specifically objected to, not including the pics.

I decided that profile was the reason she had been so defensive. But it wasn't. She continued attacking me in subtle ways [similar to the hotel thing] and insisting she wasn't. A typical tactic would be to mislead me that she was expressing that she care or admiration for me and then twist it suddenly to say something that indicated the opposite. It really upset and confused me a lot. She continued to say I had a problem with her making friends, when the only thing I had said about that was that I was upset that she put so much time and money and energy into them (whom she had only just met) and none at all into us or the plans we had. And I made that very clear. It made me feel very very bad about myself. She would stay out longer than she had said she would too - going for lunch and then staying out late at night, or even staying out the whole night. In the latter case she obviously wanted me to know this too, since she left herself logged into skype and gmail. I felt like I was walking on eggshells talking to her at this stage. I didnt take issue with these things, including the staying out all night thing, partially because it seemed clear she was doing so to try to wreck my head, and my instinct was that she wasn't cheating anyway. I did make the point that she was acting like she was single and disregarding me and our relationship entirely since she had gone there.

A couple of days ago I told her to admit she had been deliberately wrecking my head with certain things she had said and done and apologise or I wouldnt speak to her again. She did. She said she didn't feel guilty though because she felt helpless and compelled to do them.

Yesterday morning she said in a text message that she might be moving away entirely for a year for various work-related (but very much her own choice) reasons (to a distant enough country), that she felt like crying, I could come visit her, she wouldn't **** anyone for a year. Then on skype she just banged on about London and how much she would miss it there and that she was going as the +1 of some guy to a convention thing on wednesday. Then she went quiet. Then she started lookig at other things. I hung up. She asked why. I said I didn't want to hear about her missing london and stuff like that while not mentioning me or us because it made me feel bad. I said she should try to mend things in some way - for example by arranging a hotel break for us as a belated bday present. She said she didnt want to because it would be too devestating leaving. I said ok I wouldnt visit her so. Then she twisted things to say she only had ever meant she would miss london and her new friends there at all, an that the not ****ing thing was because she didnt like guys in that country.

I left a message for her offline in skype saying I wanted a hotel stay in london with her to be my bday present, and that we could meet up with her new friends too if she liked, I would enjoy socialising in a group. She didn't reply for hours when she came on. Then she said she didnt think she wanted to. I asked if she had been slagging me off to her new friends. She said no she hadn't mentioned me at all [this had been what I thought was second most likely] except to one guy whom she had told things were bad between us to, when he enquired directly about her status.

I'd known she woulnt want to - because the person she played with me was incompatible with the person she played with them. I knew it was hard for her to even admit to herself that this was the case. She just runs on approval really and adapts to what people around her would like her to be - or else she ridicules people altogether so that she feels good in that way. She feels no empathy at all. She seemed to love me so much because while she was with me she imagined me as this almost omnipotent figure, but when she's not with me she is reasonably likely to imagine that about any random guy who displays signs of control and dominant body language.

I get it now and it's horrible to realise it. I've planned everything about moving to London with her, including turning down a secure and comfortable position and burning a couple of bridges. It's a very hard fall, and it is worse because, as some people noticed in my OP, my opinion of women in general is pretty low, thanks to my personal experience. I have a scar on my face from where my previous gf split it open with a bottle. I was completely taken in by this girl though, for whatever reason. I had a lot of admiration for her and thought she was genuine and gentle, among other things. To realise she is neither of those things is hard. She's just someone drawn to whomever she can idealise. Once she no longer wants to idealise them, or receives disapproval, she tears them down, tramples on them. I really loved her and I was wide open when she attacked. She really got to me a lot.

I told her some home truths today, without mincing my words, which seems to have driven her away thankfully. At least I'm not her previous ex. Still attached to her and having my self esteem, heart, balls and even identity crushed.

Taltos

Holy crap OP - if ever anyone had a lucky escape here it was you. Just picture if you did have kids - what would you tell them? "No Sammy I don't know why you have red hair, and no I don't know who your mummy if banging tonight.."

Count your lucky stars.
Also - maybe just take time for you right now. It is clear you have been hurt again unfortunately, maybe look at the type of woman you are attracted to or where you are meeting them to see if there is something common in your choices?
Who knows maybe you have a self-destructive streak or low self-esteem and you don't think you deserve to be with someone who loves you.

Also think in this case there were more than enough warning signs - the whole ex thing - as soon as you had a sniff of that you should have bolted immediately.
Now - she will be back in touch or will try to - her ego will force her to prove she still has you at her beck and call - ignore it - but if you should get tricked into answering the phone - use the only tactic around - be completely unemotional, treat her like a stranger - as even hate or disgust will feed into her little world.

Do take however long you need - and remember not all women are like the ones you have met. Years ago I was badly hurt and lost all faith too - but took the time (years) to move beyond this - maybe just do the same, focus on being happy alone before letting anyone in - but choose wisely.

Best of luck
T

LegacyUser

Op, I find your post very hard to understand to be honest. It's not very coherent. The bit at the end where you say about any guy being, controlling, dominant etc, are you like that? I don't see any signs of how this is a relationship? Sorry to hear what your previous gf did to you, that's a scummy thing to do. I can't quite get my head around this one, but it would seem to me like this woman has been trying to get away from you. You said yourself you have a low opinion of women in general and you say in your OP how she did all these horrible things. I don't see one ounce of self blame in this thread, are you the perfect bf/man as I don't see how a "relationship" could get to this stage if this is so. You'll have to forgive me if i'm missing something, but I just can't quite get my head around your post or how she's your gf. Also there's no need to say things like at least one of you's paid attention to posters who are good enough to read/respond to your post, it is a hard one to understand OP.

LegacyUser

You're both right. It is a recurring pattern and I'm not above blame. I do keep attracting and being attracted to women like this. I am their opposite number, you might say.

My tendency is to disregard myself entirely. I focus on other people too much. My self esteem is mainly invested in control. My sense of self is drawn from how I take care of people I am in a position to care for. I'm irrelevant to myself, apart from how I can look after them. I would have bled myself dry for my three serious ex-girlfriends, and not have mentioned it at all until I was exhausted. You dont get to that stage with a normal person, and normal people dont seem that interesting to me anyway. You only get to that stage with someone completely wrapped up in themselves, who is looking for such treatment.

Sounds great and noble and nice and all on my side. But it's kinda like a person giving someone a sandwich, and then saying how hungry they are. It's excessive caretaking. It's oppressive. Because I'm driven by a desire to take care of someone, because I put their needs before mine in an absolute manner, it's difficult to conceive that I'm not really helping them. The type of person I end up with loves it when their every need is catered for. There's a kind of extreme intimacy to the point of merging. They buy into the image of a fearless heroic and wise figure, and project it back to me. And for a while I believe that. At some point I won't live up to it of course. I'll exhaust myself in some way.

It's about boundaries at the end of the day. And a foolish lack of care with approaching intimacy. I put no boundary on what I would do for them. In return they dropped all their boundaries for me. Not healthy. Identities merge and are dependant on the relationship to exist. At some point it becomes apparent I'm exhausted in some way. The girl belittles me for it but tries to maintain the same connection in me. I'm left confused and directionless, and think I have failed in some way.

They always come back of course, as you said Taltos. Once you've recovered yourself they are right back and saying how wonderful you are again. Already happened here. Also already had my previous ex try getting in touch only a couple of weeks ago too, who responded with threats to make up **** about me when I answered coldly, and accused me of stuff I knew nothing about. I found it odd that the recent ex's only response to that story was to say that she liked the way my other ex was still into me. I also found it reassuring at the time, since it made it seem like the threats etc werent a big deal - nothing to worry about.

I need to start taking care of myself, and focusing on myself. Not just in how I relate to others. I need to establish boundaries and approach intimacy with caution, instead of charging into it. I need to recognise the pattern in myself and the pattern in women and not engage with it. Need to stop drawing self-worth from overblown compliments by attractive women.

LegacyUser

Get the odd message saying she misses the sex. I miss the sex too. Should have been only about that from the start really.

Swing between thinking a ****buddy relationship would be good, and thinking I'm just repulsed by her when I'm honest with myself. My previous gf of five years went from immensely desirable to repulsive when she accidentally on purpose let slip she's been with someone else *after* we'd broken up. Maybe I should get this one to tell me that straight. Might seem like emotional masochism, but maybe that feeling of sexual repulsion would be useful here.

Then again there's a possibility she's only been with her ex-bf - or at least would only admit being with him. I dont think that would trigger the same repulsion. It would undermine the emotional side of things of course, but I've already realised that was all bull**** on her side anyway.

Maybe I'd feel enough pity for him that I'd be repulsed by her anyway. I've been back to someone's apartment before, who had a fiancé, and it just felt horrible really. I know it's wrong. Even if someone is crushed enough to accept it, it's still wrong.

I also suspect I'd end up processing it as - well she's going to do this anyway, and the guy will accept it anyway, so I should be the one to do it with her. It's a warped way of seeing myself as a protector. Doubt that makes much sense to anyone else.

Honestly I've found the idea of being with someone's SO (with their acceptance) quite interesting - when abstracted from reality, and the moral and empathetic issues that reside there. When the prospect has presented itself in reality I've passed it up all but once - when I didn't enjoy it at all.

This reads like a blog post. It's not meant that way. A couple of responses were helpful. I suspect I am considering making some very bad decisions, and I suppose confirming that might be no harm.

Taltos

OP - if you are happy in yourself with this b*tch continuing to use you - then go for it.

Let's not kid ourselves here - this is just one more example of her being out for her and not caring about you at all.
F buddy relationships can work - but are not a great idea if you have a history - and lets face it you two have the mother of all histories.

Let me reiterate - you need to do something NOW about your self-esteem. The fact that you would consider going back to her for one moment instead of using your hand speaks again volumes to your self-destructive streak.

Anyway - I am out of here - best of luck one way or another.