Rail seat booking system 'a shambles'

MysticalRain

Rail seat booking system 'a shambles' - group

A BODY representing rail users has branded Iarnród Éireann’s reservations system “a shambles” and says the company does not have officials in place to police the system, meaning passengers have to do it themselves.

Rail Users Ireland spokesman Mark Gleeson said passengers’ experience of the reservations system employed by Iarnród Éireann painted a picture of a system in chaos.

Information indicating whether a place is reserved is usually displayed electronically above the seat in question.

Dr Gleeson said these reservations were often not displayed or went suddenly blank after a few stops. In other cases, incorrect reservations were displayed or the reserved seats did not exist, he said.

“Seat reservations are the most basic customer service facility on a long-distance train. Once again Irish Rail is unable to deliver on what the rest of Europe has managed to deliver without a fuss for decades,” Dr Gleeson said.

He said Rail Users Ireland had conducted a survey of eight Rosslare-to-Dublin intercity route trains in the past fortnight, which found that no train had correctly functioning reservations in place. But the problem was “fleet-wide”.

“Irish Rail is unique amongst railways in Europe in that there is no guard, conductor, ticket checker or train manager provided. Elsewhere it is not considered safe to operate a long-distance train without a second trained staff member on board to assist passengers.”

In 2010 Iarnród Éireann published an expression of interest for a replacement seat reservation system on the Government’s eTender website “for the supply and installation of a replacement electronic seat reservation system to be installed on up to 63 train sets (234 vehicles)”.

A spokeswoman for Iarnród Éireann said last night improvements had been carried out on the system in 2010, rendering a replacement system unneccesary. A recent survey had shown 95 per cent of reservation services on inter-city trains were operating correctly, she said.

“By and large we are very happy with the way the seat reservation system works,” she said. However, last minute changes of the train in service could affect the online seat reservation system.

She said the claims made by Rail Users Ireland in relation to the Rosslare line could arise from the low rate of reservations on that service. It may have been the case that no one had reserved the seats.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0820/1224302758373.html


I think 'shambles' is definitely an apt description for the service here. In my recent experience, the reservation system has been switched off/not working more often than not.

-Chris-

Is 95% correct operation correct?

I'd hardly call that a shambles tbh. Is it possible that that figure was massaged?

Judgement Day

I don't see what Dr.Gleeson is on about. Haven't RUI been pursuing a policy of zero staff for years now. As far as I know it's virtually impossible to reserve a seat on the Rosslare line anyway and what was wrong with the paper reservation system - if properly policed. If the the self-appointed guardians of the railways would address themselves to the imminent closure of Waterford/Limerick Junction, Limerick/Ballybrophy and the Ballina branch I would be more impressed.

invinciblePRSTV

Of course I can only go on my own experiences on Dublin-Cork, but I've never had an issue with the reservation system. granted that's only a dozen or so times over the past couple of years and i'm the kinda guy who likes to travel off peak and arrive early to the train so I've never had to kick people out of my seat.

My only concern with the electronic reservation system is that a large swathe of the great Irish public seem to be congenitally incapable of reading either the electronic display or the paper reservations.

I've witnessed many a verbal dispute over seat reservations, the most amusing being at Heuston where sitting across from me was a lady of sub saharan African descent trying to convince an aggrieved gentleman brandishing his own reservation and an IR guy that she was in fact the Mr. Murphy which the seat she was in was reserved under. In her defence she was with a couple of kids and it was the only set of seats in the carriage with 3 empty seats.

MysticalRain

It's anecdotal evidence of course. But I've used the Dublin-Cork and Mallow-Tralee routes about 3-4 times in the last 3 months or so, and the reservation system hasn't been switched on. It's been mainly peak times in my experience.

Of course much of the problem lies with the passengers as well. Many of the older folks don't really get the concept of an electronic reservation system.

ArmaniJeanss

Last 3 trips to Belfast I've had the problem of someone sitting in my reserved seat, and no obvious guard or conductor to complain to.

In fairness its probably people strolling up the train, seeing empty seats and not realising they are in the reserved carriage.

Afaik the reserved carriage is always the same carriage, so maybe it could be labelled better in some way.

MysticalRain

I think another factor is that the signs are a little difficult to read. The text is too small, especially for older people who may not have perfect eyesight.

mickydoomsux

Yeah, it definitely needs sorting out from our side of things. When it was brought in the powers that be seemed more interested in having "OMG €10 to Cork" tickets advertised rather than having a decent system up and running along with the cheaper fares.

It does also seem to go over a lot of passengers head as well and i've been told to go **** myself on a number of occasions when i've boarded a train to ask someone to vacate a seat at the request of someone with a reservation who finds someone in sitting in their seat. The basic jist seems to be "sure, i was here first".

schemingbohemia

i'm not sure who i'm less impressed with "Doctor" Gleeson for issuing a press release based on anecdotal evidence from other lines to brand the system a shambles or the paper of record for printing it - with one line of a rebuttal from IE - great journalism there.

My own limited experience of the system has been flawless, any time I've booked seats my name and those of my travelling companions have been above the correct seat. Once there was someone sitting there, I asked him to move, he moved, no drama and certainly no shambles!

What's he a Doctor of?

Jehuty42

schemingbohemia wrote: »

What's he a Doctor of?

Computer Science, he completed a PhD in Trinity's CS department last year.

AlekSmart

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

My only concern with the electronic reservation system is that a large swathe of the great Irish public seem to be congenitally incapable of reading either the electronic display or the paper reservations.

I've witnessed many a verbal dispute over seat reservations, the most amusing being at Heuston where sitting across from me was a lady of sub saharan African descent trying to convince an aggrieved gentleman brandishing his own reservation and an IR guy that she was in fact the Mr. Murphy which the seat she was in was reserved under. In her defence she was with a couple of kids and it was the only set of seats in the carriage with 3 empty seats.

Crikey I wonder if she travelled onwards to Belfast,cos two months ago I was witness to the smae scenario,this time between two Irish gents and a formidable lady of audibly African descent....and by golly she was having No Truck with any oul reservation nonsense....She was here first and that was that...two children as well...interestingly the men backed down and left her in peace..of a fashion,as her children ran riot for most of their resultant journey to Dundalk.

One wonders if the entire reservation thing is actually merited,except for group travel...it's not exactly the Omsk-Tomsk express along any of our lines is it...?

Judgement Day

Jehuty42 wrote: »

Computer Science, he completed a PhD in Trinity's CS department last year.

Surprised he had the time to do a PhD, between acting the tin god on RUI and reopening the Waterford/Rosslare line single-handedly. :rolleyes:

coylemj

Part of the problem with the reservation system is the fact that IR assumes that everyone who buys a ticket online wants a reserved seat - I don't.

I am more than happy to just take any seat that's free, why can't IR allow you this option when buying a seat? If they did I suspect that there would be far less aggro about reservations because there would be fewer reserved seats.

Cinemas normally implement open seating during off peak times so you just sit anywhere, IR should do the same.

DWCommuter

NO COMMENT.

PseudoFamous

Why does Gleeson care about reservations on the Rosslare train? He probably had the entire carriage to himself after Bray anyway.

foggy_lad

Doctor gleeson was on the radio earlier not sure what station may have been newstalk but he seemed to spin a good yarn about the shambles that is the reservation system, I would think there are more important things for Irish rail to concentrate their energies on than seating customers.

honru

Iarnród Éireann seriously need to give their site a makeover, it looks like it hasn't been updated since 2004.

dowlingm

Holy sh!t could we sheath the claws please. Look at that clown Jim McDaid who got to be "Dr McDaid"" when running around the Dail on matters well outside his province. You get a doctorate, the Irish Times will call you a Dr. Let's move on.

Run_to_da_hills

There is also the other extreme.

Travel FS Italy and you will see how rail security police reservations.

In 1980 on a pilgrimage returning from Rome to Paris a number of us took over a compartment that not realising that it had been booked at Pisa. We refused to leave at about 2AM when a number of people tried to remove us from the carriage. A row started, within minutes rail security arrived and threatened us with batons if we didn't move. The Priest that was in charge of the group heard the commotion and broke up the dispute. We ended up out on the corridor for much of the journey.

-Chris-

Can we restrict this discussion to whether or not Gleeson is correct with his assertions regarding the reservation system, and the general opinions/experiences of same system.

Please don't use the thread to character assassinate Gleeson or the RUI, or use it as a springboard to criticise larger aspects of IE .

zagmund

It's a reasonable expectation on behalf of the public that when there is a seat reservation system available (and used during booking) that it is at least used correctly.

The people who are on here saying "there are bigger issues to sort out. The last thing IE need to worry about is their seating system" are missing the point. If I book a ticket on a train and there's no reserved seating then I know the situation and don't expect to get a reserved seat. But if there is reserved seating and I book a specific seat then I have a reasonable expectation that it will be available - but most importantly, if someone is sitting in it that there will be a staff member to help sort out the situation if they won't give up their seat.

If you are flying to London with Ryanair you know there's going to be a bit of a scrum, but you will all at least get a seat. If you fly with Aer Lingus, there will also be a small scrum, but you will get a specific seat. If you get on the EI plane and there's someone sitting in the middle seat (which you booked) between your missus and your kid you know that if necessary cabin crew will be able to sort it out. Not so with IE.

z

Judgement Day

-Chris-

Judgement Day wrote: »

Infraction given for ignoring on-thread Mod warning - please discuss the topic at hand and don't use this thread to take swipes at Gleeson, the RUI or IE.

schemingbohemia

zagmund wrote: »

It's a reasonable expectation on behalf of the public that when there is a seat reservation system available (and used during booking) that it is at least used correctly.

The people who are on here saying "there are bigger issues to sort out. The last thing IE need to worry about is their seating system" are missing the point. If I book a ticket on a train and there's no reserved seating then I know the situation and don't expect to get a reserved seat. But if there is reserved seating and I book a specific seat then I have a reasonable expectation that it will be available - but most importantly, if someone is sitting in it that there will be a staff member to help sort out the situation if they won't give up their seat.

If you are flying to London with Ryanair you know there's going to be a bit of a scrum, but you will all at least get a seat. If you fly with Aer Lingus, there will also be a small scrum, but you will get a specific seat. If you get on the EI plane and there's someone sitting in the middle seat (which you booked) between your missus and your kid you know that if necessary cabin crew will be able to sort it out. Not so with IE.

z

Have you personally had difficulties moving someone who was sitting in your reserved seat?

People seem to need other people to do things for them (not saying you do) when, you know, actually speaking to the person sitting in the wrong seat may solve the problem.

As I said above, the one time someone was sitting in my seat, I pointed out that I'd booked that seat and would they mind moving - they did without a problem. Perhaps it helped that I was on the train a bit early and there were a lot of spare seats around.

AngryLips

Never had a problem with seat reservation and generally people are curteous enough to move when asked. Agree that the IR website is a total joke and the option not to reserve a seat should be available. Irish Rail only need to look to their sister company Dublin Bus to see what a good website should look like.

Cuddlesworth

Over the last five years I have had a fair number of journeys without any reservation being put up and even more so with people in my seat. So yeah, in my mind it is a issue.

coylemj

I've noticed the reservation system not working on some occasions, mostly Mallow to Tralee trains. It generally works on the Cork train but I remember one occasion where the seat I was allocated had a different name on the display. I didn't sit there just in case, but as it was a busy train I ended up on the floor. The ticket checker apologised and told me to report it to customer services, but as the seat was empty she said to take it anyway.

I had one or two occasions where someone sat in my seat but I had no hassle with getting them to move, luckily.

coylemj wrote: »

Part of the problem with the reservation system is the fact that IR assumes that everyone who buys a ticket online wants a reserved seat - I don't.

I am more than happy to just take any seat that's free, why can't IR allow you this option when buying a seat? If they did I suspect that there would be far less aggro about reservations because there would be fewer reserved seats.

Cinemas normally implement open seating during off peak times so you just sit anywhere, IR should do the same.

I agree completely. It's not possible to book a seat in the quiet coach on Cork trains, so if you want to sit there then you can't order online.

coylemj

Karsini wrote: »

I remember one occasion where the seat I was allocated had a different name on the display. I didn't sit there just in case, but as it was a busy train I ended up on the floor. The ticket checker apologised and told me to report it to customer services, but as the seat was empty she said to take it anyway.

You sat on the floor of a moving train while a seat nearby was empty :eek:

I assume that the train was moving because the ticket collector arrived, in my experience you're never asked for your ticket while on the train unless it's moving.

If you're ever on the Galway or Westport train and you see a seat reserved for 'Coyle, M', feel free to take it as I'll probably be a few carriages behind, being as I am too lazy to walk all the way up the platform to a reserved seat that I didn't ask for.

BenShermin

AlekSmart wrote: »

One wonders if the entire reservation thing is actually merited,except for group travel...it's not exactly the Omsk-Tomsk express along any of our lines is it...?

Belgium's intercity service would be on a par with Ireland (for time spent travelling) and they don't have a reservation system. I've never had a problem getting a seat on a Belgian intercity service except for rush hour trains. So yes, I'd question the need for reservations myself.

coylemj wrote: »

Part of the problem with the reservation system is the fact that IR assumes that everyone who buys a ticket online wants a reserved seat - I don't.

I am more than happy to just take any seat that's free, why can't IR allow you this option when buying a seat? If they did I suspect that there would be far less aggro about reservations because there would be fewer reserved seats.

I know if you book an "advance" fare with Deutsche Bahn it doesn't include a seat reservation, you pay something like an extra €1.50 for it. It's money well spent for a very busy 1700 hours train, but not needed for off peak. Such a service would work very well here "if policed"!


In reation to Dr. Gleeson's claim, I think he's talking crap. He purposely chose the Rosslare line because so few people bother reseving seats anyway.

Since IÉ introduced their new "yield Management" fares earlier on this year I've travelled very frequently on the Dublin to Cork route and I've yet to run into any problems with my reserved seat. I've had more problems on services in the UK to be honest, on two occasions railway companies over there have failed to honor my 1st class reservation:eek:!!

coylemj

coylemj wrote: »

You sat on the floor of a moving train while a seat nearby was empty :eek:

I assume that the train was moving because the ticket collector arrived, in my experience you're never asked for your ticket while on the train unless it's moving.

If you're ever on the Galway or Westport train and you see a seat reserved for 'Coyle, M', feel free to take it as I'll probably be a few carriages behind, being as I am too lazy to walk all the way up the platform to a reserved seat that I didn't ask for.

Yes the train was moving. I was sitting on the floor in the vestibules, not in the seating area. Often happens on busy trains, especially bank holidays.

I didn't want to sit in a seat with another person's name on it.

goingnowhere

Me thinks the RUI guys are not that stupid to leave such an open door, sounds more like an easy target was chosen, after all it works fine to Cork

The photo they provided tends to prove the argument, http://www.railusers.ie/news/news.php?year=2011&no=9.html

Yes I've been left without my name above my seat going to Belfast, indeed a different name was there on the way back. No one cares and the whole thing is a bit of joke really.

coylemj

Karsini wrote: »

I didn't want to sit in a seat with another person's name on it.

Once the train started moving, why ever not? Were you expecting the passenger with the reserved seat to drop in from a helicopter, James Bond style?

That passenger probably booked a seat online but like me couldn't be bothered looking for the reserved seat so they were probably on the train but not in the seat that IR decided to allocate to them but which they didn't want in the first place.

Mr. Incognito

Phd In Computer Science says IE Trains systems not working

Probably right.

Only uses one line as "evidence" to support conslusion- hardly Phd standard analysis.

Probably wrong.

IE has a long history of making a balls of practically everything it touches.

Probably right.

So they are going to suddenly make amends with this?

Probably wrong.

So in conclusion geek gets up on soapbox because he had bad experience

Probably right.

So we should ignore the message?

Probably wrong.

zagmund

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Have you personally had difficulties moving someone who was sitting in your reserved seat?

People seem to need other people to do things for them (not saying you do) when, you know, actually speaking to the person sitting in the wrong seat may solve the problem.

As I said above, the one time someone was sitting in my seat, I pointed out that I'd booked that seat and would they mind moving - they did without a problem. Perhaps it helped that I was on the train a bit early and there were a lot of spare seats around.

Nope, I haven't had difficulties getting people to move seats, but a number of people on this thread have indicated they did or they witnessed someone else who had difficulties.

My point was really that if they provide a system it's reasonable to expect it will work (at all levels, including enforcement) and if they can't provide it relatively consistently then they should stop pretending it works and just switch it off.

z

Corkblowin

Witnessed an exchange on the Dublin-cork train a few months ago. 3 reserved seats are around a table & occuppied (presumably by the correct people). Man walks along, sees no name on display & after asking was it taken, sits down & makes himself comfortable for the trip. Along comes a woman looking for a seat - sees no name on display & confronts the man pretty aggressively:

Woman: did you reserve that seat?
Man: no, why?
Woman: well I'd like to sit there.
Man: but I'm sitting here.
Woman: but it's not reserved!
Man: I know, and I'm in it.
Woman: but you didn't reserve it!
Man: I know & now I'm in it.
Woman: but I want to sit there!
Man: ...........

She then storms off, shaking her head & muttering about the rudeness of some people, totally oblivious to her own rudeness, the sniggering of all passengers in earshot & the ridiculousness of her argument. Lighthened up the wait for the train to pull out

holidaygirl

I've only ever encountered the problem once maybe two years ago where there was no seat reservations turned on, train wasn't so busy when we got on so we just sat down at available seats. About 20 mins from Dublin the reservations showed up. Luckily it didn't seem to cause any problems.

However since then I've used them several times, and have not had that problem. I have encountered the problem with people sitting in the seats. No one has ever refused to move when I've asked. I travelled in Portugal last year and had seat reservations, when we boarded there was people in out seats they were a bit put out to have to move as the train was fairly busy, but they moved eventually. There was no one policing it there either.

I think some good points have been mentioned here already, the carriages that may have reserved seats should be highlighted, and people booking on-line should have the option of not been allocated a seat. I don't ever care where I sit when I'm travelling solo, but when with others I like to have the seats together.

hollypink

I reserved a seat on a train a few days before Christmas and the seat booking system was a bit of a shambles that day. I'd been warned by a friend who gets the train often to get there as early as possible because at Christmas, the train is so busy that people would just ignore the reserved names on the seats. So I did get there early and my name was displayed above the seat and it was free, so all good so far.

However as it came closer to departure, it became clear that lots of people were sitting in other peoples' reserved seats. There was an IR official outside the carriage asking everyone if they had pre-booked and telling them all seats in that carriage were reserved but this was obviously ignored. I heard a man behind me remark scornfully to the woman next to him 'reserved seating - sure its not royalty we are'. The young couple who had actually booked those seats arrived and spoke briefly to me and said they didn't want to ask them to move because they were old.

A young guy who sat beside me (when whoever booked the seat didn't show) told me he'd booked a seat with his sister but the man sitting in his seat wouldn't move and merely said to him 'call a guard'. The IR official wouldn't do anything because you're supposed to be in your seat x minutes before the train leaves. I don't know what you do if you get on the train at an intermediate station.

So yes a shambles that day anyway.

MysticalRain

Corkblowin wrote: »

Witnessed an exchange on the Dublin-cork train a few months ago. 3 reserved seats are around a table & occuppied (presumably by the correct people). Man walks along, sees no name on display & after asking was it taken, sits down & makes himself comfortable for the trip. Along comes a woman looking for a seat - sees no name on display & confronts the man pretty aggressively:

Woman: did you reserve that seat?
Man: no, why?
Woman: well I'd like to sit there.
Man: but I'm sitting here.
Woman: but it's not reserved!
Man: I know, and I'm in it.
Woman: but you didn't reserve it!
Man: I know & now I'm in it.
Woman: but I want to sit there!
Man: ...........

She then storms off, shaking her head & muttering about the rudeness of some people, totally oblivious to her own rudeness, the sniggering of all passengers in earshot & the ridiculousness of her argument. Lighthened up the wait for the train to pull out

That reminds me of a trip I made 2 months ago on IR. I board the train and take my reserved seat at the end of one of the carriages where the wheelchair area is. Then some auld wan and her son take some seats further up the carriage. 5 minutes after we pull out of the station, I head to the shop to grab a coffee. 5 minutes later, I come back to find the auld wan has taken my seat and her son has take the other seat beside her. When I ask her what she is doing there, she says "sure, I thought you had gotten off at the last stop". I say: "But I've only just gotten on the train ten minutes ago!".