Neighbours Extensions Nitemare

kerchunky2010

Hi,

My neighbour is in the process of building an extension to rear of her house (bedroom & toilet)

When plans etc had been drawn up, she showed us the plans which involved our boundary fence being removed half way down garden to make way for part of the build, this we strongly rejected too.
They advised builder would be in to speak to us regarding this and for us to sign something???!

This build is now going on approx 6 weeks.

Now the issue we face is that the build is touching off the boundary wall...thats fine...but now the edge of roof and guttering is over the boundary wall and into our garden.

When my partner went into them yesterday (no builder has came near us and all the lads doing the build are not the "boss") and seen the plans they agreed it isnt build as plans show...there should be an outter wall and then house wall ... which is not the case.

Now...

Where does this leave us? We are not happy with this at all.
Also, should this not of required planning permission?

Thanks

Penn

If any part of their build goes over the boundary, they are no longer exempt from planning and need to have your permission to cross the boundary by way of a Party Wall Agreement.

As such, you can call the council to make them have to stop building. You can also make them correct the situation at their own cost to ensure it doesn't go over your boundary.

I'd suggest hiring or at least consulting with a Building Surveyor or Architect.

As for whether it originally needed planning permission, it depends on the size of the extension. But once they've cross the boundary, it's no longer exempt from planning permission

kerchunky2010

Thanks Barrington, I will speak to my partner this evening :-) thanks for the info, much appreciated :-)

Sonnenblumen

I am amazed how much of this Boundary line infringement takes place. OP, defend your rights and do not let this type of bullying succeed.

You do not need to hire any specialist or become embroiled with Builder or Neighbour. Simply contact the relevant Planning Dept from the Council and they'll do and inspection and rectify any breaches of planning infringements etc.

Poor Uncle Tom

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

I am amazed how much of this Boundary line infringement takes place. OP, defend your rights and do not let this type of bullying succeed.

I don't think anyone would disagree with that.

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

You do not need to hire any specialist or become embroiled with Builder or Neighbour. Simply contact the relevant Planning Dept from the Council and they'll do and inspection and rectify any breaches of planning infringements etc.

However, I don't fully agree here.

I think you need to protect your own interests in full here and unless you are up to date with The Planning Act, it would be wise to engage a professional to protect your interests. Anyone out from the Enforcement Section of the Local Authority will probably advise you to do this anyway.

After inspection, the Enforcement Section, will probably send a Warning Letter to the neighbours to direct them that the extension needed planning permission and that they should stop all works until the planning situation is regularised. This means they will have to remove the overhanging or get retention planning permission for it, in which case you will need to object to the planning application and appeal any grant of same, if it gets that far.

mfceiling

Just a quick one tom^^

Will the OP be out of pocket by hiring a professional to sort out a problem he/she didn't create?

Would be unfair if they had to fork out for a mess they had nothing to do with or can they expect next door to cover the cost?

Poor Uncle Tom

If the costs run to a substantial amount, it is possible to recoup through the courts, but that's a civil matter.

martinn123

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

I don't think anyone would disagree with that.

However, I don't fully agree here.

I think you need to protect your own interests in full here and unless you are up to date with The Planning Act, it would be wise to engage a professional to protect your interests. Anyone out from the Enforcement Section of the Local Authority will probably advise you to do this anyway.

After inspection, the Enforcement Section, will probably send a Warning Letter to the neighbours to direct them that the extension needed planning permission and that they should stop all works until the planning situation is regularised. This means they will have to remove the overhanging or get retention planning permission for it, in which case you will need to object to the planning application and appeal any grant of same, if it gets that far.

Can you clarify, please PUT, how can a neighbour apply for Planning where the extention is over the boundary, they have no right to put any extention on, or over, land they do not own. ( I assume )

So in that case, surely a report to the Enforcment Section should result in the offending wall, being removed, and replaced, by a wall which is on the right side, leaving the extention exempt again.

My concern, as reflected in mfceiling,s post is that the OP is facing costs, having to Object, to an Application, and possibly an Appeal, where the trouble is not of their making. Recovering any costs, through civil action also is of small comfort, surely the L.A will act to remedy the position
Thanks

sinnerboy

martinn123 wrote: »

surely the L.A will act to remedy the position
Thanks

You would think so and maybe they will martin. But sometimes in life we are forced into costs we don't wish to incur. I have posted before my own opinion that exempted development provisions ought to be severely curtailed in tight urban areas to avoid situations like the OP's. It saves "the system" makes it more efficient :rolleyes: but often at the expense of the adjacent owners.

The OP may do just fine by acting alone and may find that the Local Authority acts as they would wish them to. In my own experience and in my own opinion officials hate this stuff. In the worst of cases I've gotten the impression that they had "more important things to do".

If for no other reason the psychological feeling of having somebody completely "on their side" gives clients a comfort and moral support which they don't mind paying for. The OP describes the situation as a "nitemare" . So the stress should not be underestimated.

martinn123

thanks for that clarification. To be clear, I am in no way suggesting the OP does not seek professional help.

My main query is still unclear, how can a neighbour apply for planning where they do not own a part of the area where the extention overhangs.

Perhaps I am assuming too much, but an application for planning should be void, in the circumstances outlined.
I agree as this situation is described as a nightmare, it is distressing, and perhaps, as planning applications are well down, in numbers, the planners should ''do their job'' instead of giving the impression they have more important things to do.

sinnerboy

martinn123 wrote: »

My main query is still unclear, how can a neighbour apply for planning where they do not own a part of the area where the extention overhangs.

Well they can't legally. People do things they can't or should not all the time.

creedp

sinnerboy wrote: »

Well they can't legally. People do things they can't or should not all the time.

I am probably very naive here but surely, if not already done, the OP should approach the neighbour and put it in no uncertain terms that the build is encroaching on her property and that they will be pursuing with planning enforcement and ultimately the courts to have the building work amended (knocked) to redress this? Maybe a solicitors letter may also be of help. The longer this goes on and the more money spend the more resitance there will be to address it.

In the end of the day if the building is encroaching on private property it will have to be removed .. that is a certainty and the sooner the neighbour is made aware of this the better.

martinn123

Now its becoming clear.

So when PUT states.

Poor Uncle Tom wrote:

After inspection, the Enforcement Section, will probably send a Warning Letter to the neighbours to direct them that the extension needed planning permission and that they should stop all works until the planning situation is regularised. This means they will have to remove the overhanging or get retention planning permission for it, in which case you will need to object to the planning application and appeal any grant of same, if it gets that far.

and I ask,

martinn123 wrote:

how can a neighbour apply for planning where they do not own a part of the area where the extention overhangs.

and you reply,

sinnerboy wrote:

Well they can't legally

This should give the OP some comfort.
So a warning to the neighbour, following Professional clarification of the above, that the offending wall will have to come down, and there is no remedy in a new planning application, should lead to a resolution.

Meanwhile back in the real world.:rolleyes:

People do things they can't or should not all the time.

Poor Uncle Tom

martinn123 wrote: »

Can you clarify, please PUT,

Well, lets try....

martinn123 wrote: »

...how can a neighbour apply for Planning where the extention is over the boundary, they have no right to put any extention on, or over, land they do not own. ( I assume )

A planning applicant is asked to show their site area surrounded in a red line, and if part of that site is in the ownership of someone else they are asked to decalre that, and to provide written consent from the rightful owner. Historically, planning permissions have been granted without all the relevant information having been submitted, or indeed without all the correct information being submitted. My post above is to protect the interests of the OP as I stated. We are assuming that all the correct information will be given to the LA, this may not be the case, whether by design or error. I am merely covering all bases.

martinn123 wrote: »

So in that case, surely a report to the Enforcment Section should result in the offending wall, being removed, and replaced, by a wall which is on the right side, leaving the extention exempt again.

From my reading of the Opening Post I think the wall is not the offending item, it is the overhanging roof eaves over the wall. A report to the Enforcement Section should eventually result in the offending section being withdrawn.

martinn123 wrote: »

My concern, as reflected in mfceiling,s post is that the OP is facing costs, having to Object, to an Application, and possibly an Appeal, where the trouble is not of their making. Recovering any costs, through civil action also is of small comfort, surely the L.A will act to remedy the position
Thanks

They may do so, and they may ask for the situation regarding permissions to be regularised.
You must remember it is not the LA's job to interprit or solve boundary issues, they are more likely to ask for regularisation through application for planning permission giving a deadline for same. If the offender knows they can not get the consent of a neighbour for a planning application, they may remove the offending piece of the building rather than attempt to proceed.

creedp wrote: »

I am probably very naive here but surely, if not already done, the OP should approach the neighbour and put it in no uncertain terms that the build is encroaching on her property and that they will be pursuing with planning enforcement and ultimately the courts to have the building work amended (knocked) to redress this? Maybe a solicitors letter may also be of help. The longer this goes on and the more money spend the more resitance there will be to address it.

In the end of the day if the building is encroaching on private property it will have to be removed .. that is a certainty and the sooner the neighbour is made aware of this the better.

A very pracitcal approach and one I agree with, however, a solicitor will most likely ask that you get a building professional in to carry out a report to protect your interests, in any case.

martinn123 wrote: »

Now its becoming clear.

So when PUT states.

I can answer for myself, thank you. I just don't happen to be on-line 24/7.

martinn123 wrote: »

This should give the OP some comfort.
So a warning to the neighbour, following Professional clarification of the above, that the offending wall will have to come down, and there is no remedy in a new planning application, should lead to a resolution.

Meanwhile back in the real world.:rolleyes:

People do things they can't or should not all the time.

That attitude of yours will get you in trouble.
As stated, it is possible to sort out the problems, it is just not always as straight forward as it should be.

Do you need clarification with anything else I have posted?

sinnerboy

martinn123 wrote: »

the planners should ''do their job'' instead of giving the impression they have more important things to do.

Should do. But look here

Sonnenblumen

It is hardly surprising really, more examples of Irish Authorities not being proactive and suffering from inertia when it comes to protecting the public interest or coming to the assistance of victims of illegal actions.


Now that there is no boom for an excuse, expecting periodical site inspections to ensure compliance is hardly overly optimistic?

BryanF

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

It is hardly surprising really, more examples of Irish Authorities not being proactive and suffering from inertia when it comes to protecting the public interest or coming to the assistance of victims of illegal actions.


Now that there is no boom for an excuse, expecting periodical site inspections to ensure compliance is hardly overly optimistic?

a reasonable assumption, but very optimistic:) i think the figure of inspections is circa 10-15%. many of us have been screaming for proper building control for years... no such luck:( LA's are reducing/frozen staff numbers and unfortunately as B'regs get more complex, with Part B, L & M requiring separate certs, it doesn't look like any meaningful changes will happens anytime soon.

branners69

If a neighbour knocks and build on the boundary wall without permission, is there a time limit as to when you can make a complaint and seek the extension be removed. Or is it once it is built there is nothing you can do about it??

sydthebeat

branners69 wrote: »

If a neighbour knocks and build on the boundary wall without permission, is there a time limit as to when you can make a complaint and seek the extension be removed. Or is it once it is built there is nothing you can do about it??

there is a statute of limitations of 7 years on unauthorised development as per the planning acts.

however, this is not only a planing issue but also a civil property issue. Im not sure what limitations exist within this legality.

branners69

sydthebeat wrote: »

there is a statute of limitations of 7 years on unauthorised development as per the planning acts.

however, this is not only a planing issue but also a civil property issue. Im not sure what limitations exist within this legality.

Many thanks for the reply, so any advice where to start? Would I contact a solicitor or Building Surveyor?

BryanF

branners69 wrote: »

If a neighbour knocks and build on the boundary wall without permission, is there a time limit as to when you can make a complaint and seek the extension be removed. Or is it once it is built there is nothing you can do about it??

take pictures and white down your issue and go visit your local planning office..
you may find your neighbour was exempt from planning for building their extension.. what you are saying regarding the boundary wall is strange though

Yawns

I've never understood this. What if the neighbours started to build over the ops property. He told them to rectify and they refused. What if the Op just knocked that bit down? It's on his land and he gave them a chance to remove it.

Aside from all the hate and bad feeling what could they do? It would cost them to take OP to court and they wouldn't be in the squeaky clean limelight for building onto his land.

BryanF

Yawns wrote: »

I've never understood this. What if the neighbours started to build over the ops property. He told them to rectify and they refused. What if the Op just knocked that bit down? It's on his land and he gave them a chance to remove it.

Aside from all the hate and bad feeling what could they do? It would cost them to take OP to court and they wouldn't be in the squeaky clean limelight for building onto his land.

you should not build on your neighbour property.taking the law into your own hands is foolish and such matters can end badly... its best to take it to court. if the op's neighbour is in the wrong, then they would be obliged to rectify it or pay compensation.

i agree that many neighbours 'get away' with to much when extending. but do we want more regulation? many would say we have more than enough! I'd argue that we need more supervision by building control, slim chance of that!

kerchunky2010

Okay, so things regarding boundary wall etc were rectified and thats ok.

Now we have another issue -

The side of the wall which faces our garden has been chipped with the little white and terrocatta stones - thats fine

But the damage due to the limestone marking our patio, and all loose stones left all over the place and not tidied up properly has left our garden in such a mess its frustrating.

Numerous times I have asked neighbour to get builder to contact me - once they advised he had knocked in and got no answer (whilst me and my partner were both in house - knocked in? i think not)

Im so frustrated trying to reconcile this but getting no where.

Do i now seek legal advice or contact health board through which this building is being funded?

Thanks

BryanF

kerchunky2010 wrote: »

But the damage due to the limestone marking our patio, and all loose stones left all over the place and not tidied up properly has left our garden in such a mess its frustrating.

any chance of a photo

Carlow52

OP did u give the builder access to your garden to build/dash the wall?

As asked already a picture or 2 would help greatly

See

LAND AND CONVEYANCING LAW REFORM ACT 2009


Chapter 3 , Party structures starting at section 43 is, depending on your viewpoint, a mine field
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2009/...7/sec0043.html

muffler

kerchunky2010 wrote: »

But the damage due to the limestone marking our patio, and all loose stones left all over the place and not tidied up properly has left our garden in such a mess its frustrating.

Yes a photo or two showing this "damage" would be useful before any other comments.

martinn123

kerchunky2010 wrote: »

Okay, so things regarding boundary wall etc were rectified and thats ok.

Any chance you can let us know how you resolved the boundary issue, as originally the gutters etc were overhanging onto your side.
Thanks, maybe include in the pic's

kerchunky2010

Thanks all,

I will post some pics this evening when I get a chance, see what you all think..

Thanks