He charged me 900 euros, am I being ripped off

investment

I got a job done last week by a electrician, he brought the stuff which cost 350 euro's I think


-4 thermostats
- 4 Isolaters
- 2 frost stats
-1 saulter t37hw
-3 zone electronic programmer
- 2 wall temp setting

He did the Job in 7-8 hours and got a lunch break of an hour and he only lives 1min away

He charged me 900 euros, am I being ripped off

16hill

Yes without a doubt
he has charged you 550 euro in cash i guess for 8 hours work not bad if you can get it
its 75 euro an hour any trades man would get max 150 a day at the moment and thats top rate
People are living in the past for far too long you really have to get 6 or more quotes and buy the materials yourself.

sinnerboy

Ask for receipts - maybe the kit cost more than you think ?
Did he charge VAT ?

If so the Ex Vat amount is €792.95
If the kit cost €400.00 his labour is €392.95 / 8 = €49.10 per hour.
If the kit cost €500.00 his labour is €292.95 / 8 = €36.60 per hour.

This 2008 guide is the best reference I can find just now. See page 12 . He would be a Grade A Craftsman and to be perfectly fair about it entitled to the Daywork rate of €40.15 per hour.

I'm not saying you were not overcharged.

I am saying you might not have been.

sinnerboy

I found the 2011 guide. whilst it does not state dayworks it does state Basic Hourly rates which compare to the 2008 rates.

So to be fair about it one could consider around €40/hour to be reasonable.

creedp

sinnerboy wrote: »

I found the 2011 guide. whilst it does not state dayworks it does state Basic Hourly rates which compare to the 2008 rates.

So to be fair about it one could consider around €40/hour to be reasonable.

I remember contributing to a thread concerning a fair days pay for a fair days work when someone was trying to say that is was OK to pay a self-employed construction worker something like €80 per day in these recessionary times. However, I think that €40 an hour for a one off job in 2011 seems pretty steep to me. Its hard to rationalise the collapse of the construction industry on the one hand and the view that the pay rates that existed in the boom of 2008 should continue unabated in 2011. I know everyone has to live but for many their income has taken a tumble and we hear all the time that certain protected sectors have to cop on and realise that the boom is over and be realistic about their pay demands in terms of taking 20% pay cuts. Should that not also apply to a industry that has apparently collpased?

Anyway its not up to me to determine another persons pay and as the market is king and the construction industry is not a sheltered part of economy I'm assuming rates will stabilise as what the market can afford ...

sinnerboy

Well the OP has more to go on now that when he posted. Some reference points. €22.56 / hour is the basic rate today for an electrician has the benefit of an Company Employer with sick leave holidays etc as part of the overall package and €40 / hour when he does not.

In the narrow case of this thread the OP must ask some pointed questions. Nobody should be ripped off and I would never defend that. If no VAT was charged and he is right that the kit cost only €350 then he now has the ammunition to dispute the charge - UNLESS - the price was agreed on before the works started in which case he must - in my opinion - morally pay as agreed.

In the broader sense
a)if the market lets rip and
b) we all pay the barest minimum to a sector
c) that correctly demands highly skilled persons and
d) those persons can't survive on that.

Who'll become an electrician if they can't survive being one ? Expand the logic and ask where do you expect "market forces" to lead us. As a society. Or was Thatcher right when she said there is no such thing as society ?

creedp

I don't dispute that qualified people should not get paid a decent income given their expertise. However, my points were coming from a background where everyday I hear that people are losing their jobs and qualified construction related workers/self employed contractors with high levels of expertise are without work and an income. Against the background of falling incomes across the country in general is it better for the construction industry to reduce its costs thereby making it more affordable for people to carry out work and therefore increase employment in the industry or for those lucky enough to have a job to continue to maintain boom time levels of income for their work and supress the amount of work that will be available.

In reality we know what is actually happenning, i.e. people can't afford to pay the going rate for this work any longer so are seeking out contractors who are prepared to operate on a cash basis to make the work more affordable. I don't believe this is good for anyone in the long term but it is certaintly something that is gaining momentum. Just food for thought by the way and as I said earlier I am in no way suggesting that people incomes should be cut or that a race to the bottom is something to be supported.

In relation to the OP in this specific instance, I can only assume you got quotes and this one came out as the best option. If you agreed the price then there is not a lot that can be done, if you didn't then it proves the importance of agreeing a fixed price for a job whenever possible.

sinnerboy

All valid points creedp I don't doubt you are fair minded.

Again , rip offs are deplorable the OP should not accept that if this is the case.

As to the broader picture I am deeply troubled about where we are and where we may end up.

just do it

Regardless of the above debate about a fair rate for a days labour, what about the old adage "buyer beware".

Surely before getting any job done the client should get a few quotes. And if they're set on using one particular individual they should at least get a quote off him and enquire prior to getting the work done if that appears reasonable.

Knowledge is king and prevents one from being "ripped off".

(Can't answer the OP's question though, was it too much).

AckwelFoley

40 an hour for an electrician.

Please.

Its rates like that that has the country in the hole we are in.

I have no problem with qualified tradesmen getting paid for their work, but at 40 euro per hour they will be a long time trying to find work in this country

investment

AckwelFoley wrote: »

40 an hour for an electrician.

Please.

Its rates like that that has the country in the hole we are in.

I have no problem with qualified tradesmen getting paid for their work, but at 40 euro per hour they will be a long time trying to find work in this country

Thanks for all the advice, I'm not going to pay him that money he will be lucky to get half of what he wants!

sinnerboy

In return please clarify

1 confirmed cost of materials

2 is he charging vat

dev100

AckwelFoley wrote: »

40 an hour for an electrician.

Please.

Its rates like that that has the country in the hole we are in.

I have no problem with qualified tradesmen getting paid for their work, but at 40 euro per hour they will be a long time trying to find work in this country

What do you work at? What would you call a fair price per hour worked?

Im not a sparks. I am a tradesman though. And I know what prices are roughly charged. In most factories sparks would be earning 25euro an hour. Take that as a base rate. If you take a self employed sparks or a self employed trades man you have to factor in price of vechicle, purchase of tools wear and tear insurance liability costs also people who refuse to pay also has to be factoried into account, Pay an accountant to do his or her books. Put money into a pension pay for private health insurance When all this is factoried you arent guaranteed 39 hrs either. You wont receive any social welfare if it all goes belly up.




Its all about supply and demand.

dev100

investment wrote: »

Thanks for all the advice, I'm not going to pay him that money he will be lucky to get half of what he wants!

I worked it out that he is charging you about 68.75 an hour after paying for materials . If he is suppling you the materials at cost price then he is being greedy.Have you factored in price of cabling and other material costs that he may not have told you about... His price does seem excessive Id be trying to negotiating a lower price.
But expect to pay between 40 to 55 an hour possibly.

Never a good idea to let someone to do work for you without them giving you a ball park figure of price

mickdw

If the OP had got some waster to do the job and was a full week coming and going, they would probably have started a thread on here saying that recession is great as he/she got an electrician for a week for €550.

You must get a few prices before you give the work out. Agree a price and then dont begrudge the guy who gets the work done promptly.

id the electrician perhaps have a helper with him? THis is often required for routing cables etc.

Also, you dont mention the supply of cable. Id say the €350 was for your specific components while he would have used various cable from his own stock (which would make it cheaper for you) instead of buying cable specifically for you

SparKing

dev100 wrote: »

Never a good idea to let someone to do work for you without them giving you a ball park figure of price

Notice no cable priced for, add on €50 or so.
I'd expect to charge about 650 (250+400) + VAT =€740 +/- and I'd be very happy with that, would do it for €700 with no qualms, as long as the above figures etc. are accurate, was the sparky working alone?

Mr. Presentable

Did the OP agree a price prior to the work being done? Is he happy to have it undone if he fails to pay in full?

Sonnenblumen

investment wrote: »

I got a job done last week by a electrician, he brought the stuff which cost 350 euro's I think


-4 thermostats
- 4 Isolaters
- 2 frost stats
-1 saulter t37hw
-3 zone electronic programmer
- 2 wall temp setting

He did the Job in 7-8 hours and got a lunch break of an hour and he only lives 1min away

He charged me 900 euros, am I being ripped off

Why do you think you are being ripped off? Simply making a judgement on cost divided by man hours is only one way? It's not simply who is it, what it is and how long it takes to do something which must be considered. Expect to pay more than guide/average prices for good quality work. Charts are just that, guidleines. If the work was done promptly, neatly etc this also needs to be taken into account. I happily pay top rates for top work. I 've no time to be scrounging around looking for bottom drawer. There's plenty of that outthere already and I don't need it.

€ 40+/hr is not high for any good work and IMO the quality with many of our trades is that they are poor performers, unreliable and generally sloppy to work with. Yes many will disagree, but I'm not sorry so many are now idle. No sympathy for 'Jumbo roll man with track shoes'. Hopefully some will learn from the downturn and find something more appropriate to do, letting more professional types get on with the job.

fiestaman

dev100 wrote: »

What do you work at? What would you call a fair price per hour worked?

Im not a sparks. I am a tradesman though. And I know what prices are roughly charged. In most factories sparks would be earning 25euro an hour. Take that as a base rate. If you take a self employed sparks or a self employed trades man you have to factor in price of vechicle, purchase of tools wear and tear insurance liability costs also people who refuse to pay also has to be factoried into account, Pay an accountant to do his or her books. Put money into a pension pay for private health insurance When all this is factoried you arent guaranteed 39 hrs either. You wont receive any social welfare if it all goes belly up.

Its all about supply and demand.

By jasus im not a tradesman and i pay all of these Highlighted above and im lucky to earn 15per hr and im quailifed at my job. As for people who dont pay,thats YOUR problem not mine when you come to do a job for me.how can you pass that onto someone else.
Tradesmen would want to cop on with there prices you went to college and passed exams wow. If theres rates then all jobs should have a time limit and a manaul printed that the public can get and see how long a certain job should take. eg. fit new fuse board,takes 2hrs on record so it should only take a guy 2hrs not 4 and charge for 4.

AckwelFoley

dev100 wrote: »

What do you work at? What would you call a fair price per hour worked?

Im not a sparks. I am a tradesman though. And I know what prices are roughly charged. In most factories sparks would be earning 25euro an hour. Take that as a base rate. If you take a self employed sparks or a self employed trades man you have to factor in price of vechicle, purchase of tools wear and tear insurance liability costs also people who refuse to pay also has to be factoried into account, Pay an accountant to do his or her books. Put money into a pension pay for private health insurance When all this is factoried you arent guaranteed 39 hrs either. You wont receive any social welfare if it all goes belly up.




Its all about supply and demand.

Hi dev..

Im with fiestaman on this one im afraid, and you said it yourself "supply and demand".. if you are going to supply a trad to me at 40 quid an hour ..im going to demand a different sparks..


In the real world nobody is going to pay that money only one bound by trade unions and.. to be fair.. there are few of them now doing much.. the people paying the money now are joe soaps and the smart ones will price around and get it for half that rate.

I dont begrudge any trade receiving as much as one is willing to pay them, but 40 quid an hour is out of the realm of reality in this day and age.

I know a fully qualified blocklayer that earns 80 euro a day working for a subbie on a site building schools.. he drives from athlone to galway or north tip for the days work at his own expense.. personally i think he'd be better off cleaning the toilets in burger king at that rate and save the money on fuel, but its a far istance from 40 quid an hour


..what do i work at? i work in a tool hire shop..its a far cry from what im qualified to do and half the wage i earned 5 years ago... but i have to work, and reality is a bitch

bakerbhoy

AckwelFoley wrote: »

40 an hour for an electrician.

Please.

Its rates like that that has the country in the hole we are in.

I have no problem with qualified tradesmen getting paid for their work, but at 40 euro per hour they will be a long time trying to find work in this country

check your garage bill next time €70/80 per hour for labour plus vat

investment

I have returned to

Vat @21% has been paid on the materials at 350 inlc cables and what I orginal said

I will be paying him in cash so he wont be paying vat

fiestaman

bakerbhoy wrote: »

check your garage bill next time €70/80 per hour for labour plus vat

If you pay €70-80 for work done to a car then by all means do but your getting ripped off. heaps of places to go to that can do the same as main dealer and even better for €20 per hr handy and it will be quailfied mechanics doing the job.

AckwelFoley

bakerbhoy wrote: »

check your garage bill next time €70/80 per hour for labour plus vat

Thats the garage price. The mechanic isnt getting paid that.

650gs

Lets not forget that although wages have come down diesel, petrol, insurance and everything else has gone up ???????????

just do it

650gs wrote: »

Lets not forget that although wages have come down diesel, petrol, insurance and everything else has gone up ???????????

So therefore my disposal income has decreased and I have less to pay the electrician, and therefore he's rate should come down to meet market demand?!

Sonnenblumen

fiestaman wrote: »

If you pay €70-80 for work done to a car then by all means do but your getting ripped off. heaps of places to go to that can do the same as main dealer and even better for €20 per hr handy and it will be quailfied mechanics doing the job.

Cash in hand guys perhaps, but hardly a legit mechanic with proper records and offering warranty on any work done to cars etc? I'm sure plenty of people wpuld be interested to know of a € 20/hr garage/mechanic doing same work as main dealer pls?

kerryaviva

investment wrote: »

I got a job done last week by a electrician, he brought the stuff which cost 350 euro's I think


-4 thermostats
- 4 Isolaters
- 2 frost stats
-1 saulter t37hw
-3 zone electronic programmer
- 2 wall temp setting

He did the Job in 7-8 hours and got a lunch break of an hour and he only lives 1min away

He charged me 900 euros, am I being ripped off

did u get all this work done to upgrade ur heating controls and if so are u receiving a grant from the sei.;)

Fracking Cylon

Did you ask him ho wmuch it would be before he started the job. If you were happy with 900 then, until you found out how much he is possibly making, he should get what you agreed, even if it does seem high.

sinnerboy

(Polite ) Moderator advice note.

This issue arose and died months ago. Please don't "gravedig".