Origin of African Wild dogs

snowstreams

Ive always wondered where the African Wild dogs fit in the canine family.



Ive tried doing a quick of reading online but could never find the answer. Maybe someone here could shed some light on it?
Are they more related to the grey wolf like other domesticated dogs? or are they a completely wild species that developed naturally, like a jackal?
Or again are they a hybrid of a wild species that mixed with dometicated dogs?

Adam Khor

snowstreams wrote: »

Ive always wondered where the African Wild dogs fit in the canine family.



Ive tried doing a quick of reading online but could never find the answer. Maybe someone here could shed some light on it?
Are they more related to the grey wolf like other domesticated dogs? or are they a completely wild species that developed naturally, like a jackal?
Or again are they a hybrid of a wild species that mixed with dometicated dogs?

African wild dogs are a wild, independently evolved species of their own, and also the only surviving members of their own genus (Lycaon, named after the mythical king of Arcadia who was turned into a wolf by Zeus as punishment for his cruelty and cannibalistic habits).
They are canids, meaning they do belong to the same family as wolves, dogs and what not, but, within said family, they are not very closely related to them.

Its evolution is not very well understood, but scientists believe that its ancestor was a (very large) African and Eurasian canid that lived in the early Pleistocene, called Xenocyon lycaonoides. This beast was more robust than the African wild dog and probably would be much dangerous if alive today- but it was quite similar, anatomically.

Some believe that Xenocyon gave rise to both African wild dogs and Asian wild dogs (dholes), which would make them each other's closest relatives today.

This is an Asian wild dog:

Some authors consider that perhaps Xenocyon lycaonoides should be renamed Lycaon lycaonoides because of its very close relation to African wild dogs, which would make the latter a smaller modern version of the prehistoric beast.

As for wolves, jackals, dogs and coyotes, they belong to a different linneage of canids.

snowstreams

Thanks for that explanation.
Where does the dingo fit in. It looks quite similar to the Asian wild dog.

Adam Khor

snowstreams wrote: »

Thanks for that explanation.
Where does the dingo fit in. It looks quite similar to the Asian wild dog.

It does, but it's actually not closely related to it. The dingo is supossed to have evolved from early, wolf-like domesticated dogs, which arrived to Australia along with humans.
There, being isolated (there were never any canids native to Australia), they evolved into a new species, Canis dingo, although some scientists say that since they are so similar, genetically, to wolves and dogs, they should be considered a subspecies, rather than a species of their own, and many use the name Canis lupus dingo instead.

As you see they really have nothing to do with Asian wild dogs except for the fact that they are both canids. Dingoes not only belong to the same canid linneage as wolves/dogs, but are actually direct descendants of wolves/dogs.

Sid_Justice

snowstreams wrote: »

Thanks for that explanation.
Where does the dingo fit in. It looks quite similar to the Asian wild dog.

the articles on wikipedia answer both of your questions.

snowstreams

Sid_Justice wrote: »

the articles on wikipedia answer both of your questions.

I'm not sure if I'd trust Wikipedia because I've read conflicting information about african dogs before.

Victor

Can all canids inter-breed sucessfully?

Adam Khor wrote: »

This is an Asian wild dog:

You can imagine it as a shave-headed, tattooed, sunburnt, steroid-abusing, beer-drinking character leching at the 'bitches' on the beach. :pac:

snowstreams

I wonder if the reason that the wild Asian dog looks so much like the dingo just down to convergent evolution because they both live in similar habitats?

Adam Khor

snowstreams wrote: »

I wonder if the reason that the wild Asian dog looks so much like the dingo just down to convergent evolution because they both live in similar habitats?

It is possible, because genetic studies have been done and everything seems to indicate that there was never any interbreeding between dingos or dingo-like canids (such as the New Guinea singing dog), and dholes.

Sid_Justice

Victor wrote: »

Can all canids inter-breed sucessfully?You can imagine it as a shave-headed, tattooed, sunburnt, steroid-abusing, beer-drinking character leching at the 'bitches' on the beach. :pac:

Again wikipedia to the rescue. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canid_hybrid

Hybrids between wolves and domestic dogs are well known, it can be argued that genetically speaking they're not different species. Hybrids between domestic dogs and dingos are also viable, I'm not too sure what the latest knowledge is on the relationship between dingos / and domestic dogs, i always considered them extremely closely related.

Foxes on the other hand have not been proven to breed successfully with dogs. On the subject of african wild dogs, the wiki article doesn't explain and I don't know either. I would imagine they would be the least likely to successfully hybridise with others, being most distantly related, but stranger things have happened.

When considering hybrids, there are a few things you need to think about, ignoring geography and ecology.
Can the male and female successfully physically interbred (e.g. is there too much of a size differential).
Is it the same for vice-versa.
How many of the offspring are still born?
If they can produce living offspring, can the offspring survive to adult hood?
The really important one is can the offspring then breed successfully themselves? The classic example is the male donkey and the female horse making a mule. The mule is viable animal but is infertile and rarely breeds itself.

Adam Khor

Sid_Justice wrote: »

Again wikipedia to the rescue. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canid_hybrid

Hybrids between wolves and domestic dogs are well known, it can be argued that genetically speaking they're not different species. Hybrids between domestic dogs and dingos are also viable, I'm not too sure what the latest knowledge is on the relationship between dingos / and domestic dogs, i always considered them extremely closely related.

Foxes on the other hand have not been proven to breed successfully with dogs. On the subject of african wild dogs, the wiki article doesn't explain and I don't know either. I would imagine they would be the least likely to successfully hybridise with others, being most distantly related, but stranger things have happened.

When considering hybrids, there are a few things you need to think about, ignoring geography and ecology.
Can the male and female successfully physically interbred (e.g. is there too much of a size differential).
Is it the same for vice-versa.
How many of the offspring are still born?
If they can produce living offspring, can the offspring survive to adult hood?
The really important one is can the offspring then breed successfully themselves? The classic example is the male donkey and the female horse making a mule. The mule is viable animal but is infertile and rarely breeds itself.

There are exceptions to every rule, but USUALLY, animals can only interbreed when there's a close genetic relation between them. For example, in theory, wolves, coyotes, jackals, dingoes and dogs (provided they are the right size of course) can all interbreed, because they belong to the same genus (Canis).

However, sometimes, unsuspected things happen. When it comes to cats, for example, they seem to be very "mixable".
Everyone knows about "ligers", for example (a hybrid between a lion and a tigress which is the largest kind of cat hybrid known):

Or tigons, which are hybrids between a tiger and a lioness (yes, the result is different depending on who's the dad and who's the mom- tigons tend to be much smaller than ligers):

[IMG]http://lion_roar.tripod.com/noel_tigon.jpg[/IMG]

Hybrids between lions and leopards:

... leopards and jaguars...



... and jaguars and lions are also well known.

All of these cats belong to genus Panthera. However, and surprisingly, Panthera cats have also been known to interbreed with other cats belonging to different genera, and even, to different linneages. For example, leopards and cougars:

And also pumas and ocelots (which are quite different in size as well!).

So, if canids are anything like felids, then it is possible that many canids belonging to different genera can interbreed, although this rarely if ever happens in the wild, so the only way to know for sure would be keeping them together in captivity. And most zoos avoid hybridizations for many reasons, the animal's own health and welfare being the most important, as hybrids usually suffer from a lot of genetic-related illnesses.

Sid_Justice

Adam Khor wrote: »

There are exceptions to every rule, but USUALLY, animals can only interbreed when there's a close genetic relation between them. For example, in theory, wolves, coyotes, jackals, dingoes and dogs (provided they are the right size of course) can all interbreed, because they belong to the same genus (Canis).

I'm pretty sure that ligons and tiglons are infertile hybrids. I wouldn't put too much faith in the concept of genus, it is an human made artificial construct. The important genetic considerations are the karotypes of each species. The more similar the karotypes the more likely a viable offspring will be produced.

Animals have their dna packaged in chromosomes which join together when the mammalian male sperm fuses with the mammalian femala ovum/oocyte. If they have different numbers of chromosomes or even if the chromosomes are different sizes or contain specific genes at different locations it is less likely that the will successfully combine.

The concept of genus is based on the principle of grouping the closely related animals together based on shared ancestor but it worth reminding that it is a subjective system, constantly being re-evaluated and more often than not based on the phenotype observations made by classical researchers. That's not the say the principle isn't sound.

I would agree with the hypothesis that the docility of Ligons compared to the non-hybridised parents is due to chromosomal abnormality which results in a form of retardation.

Adam Khor

Sid_Justice wrote: »

I wouldn't put too much faith in the concept of genus, it is an human made artificial construct. The important genetic considerations are the karotypes of each species. The more similar the karotypes the more likely a viable offspring will be produced.

It's not about the concept of genus- but the fact that animals classiffied in the same genus are USUALLY very closely related to each other.

Sid_Justice wrote: »

I would agree with the hypothesis that the docility of Ligons compared to the non-hybridised parents is due to chromosomal abnormality which results in a form of retardation.

Never dealt with Ligers myself but, I've heard that some of them, rather than being retarded, end up with kind of a split personality. A certain liger, for example, would become confused when in the presence of water, because lions hate to get wet (most of them) whereas tigers love water. According to the animal's handlers, the liger couldn´t decide if it liked water or not.

recedite

Victor

If you cross a Tigon with a Liger, do you get a Tigger?

Birdnuts

Adam Khor

Birdnuts wrote: »

You lucky bastard! Have any more pics to share?

Birdnuts

Birdnuts

PS: They were the fattest Wild Dogs I'd ever seen and appear to be doing well on this amazing conservancy after an absence of over 2 decades till last year - one dog had been tagged in Samburu NR hundreds of miles away a few years back!!

steddyeddy

I would love to see them. Thanks so much for posting these!

Birdnuts

http://www.wildlifeextra.com/go/news/mara-wilddogs.html

Ditch

Adam Khor wrote: »

You lucky bastard!

I couldn't possibly have put it better!

Hollzy

So jealous... I've checked this thread so many times just to look at those pictures again! Hoping to do some volunteering in South Africa next summer and get a chance to work with them. Fingers crossed!