Economic Career

larry low

Hi there.

I am an Arts student in U.C.D.(doing economics and maths joint major) and I am going into third year(I will be getting a first handy enough). I am pretty sure i'd like to pursue a career in economics, but am not certain exactly what I would like to do. I was wondering what career prospects you would have with/without a masters? While i am sure this is difficult to answer as i am not entirely sure what job i really want any advice on what does or does not require a masters would be greatly appreciated.

andrew

From what I've heard, the wage premium which accrues from a masters is quite high, so in that respect they're worth doing if you can afford it. However, the people I know with degrees in maths and economics (though admittedly there aren't that many), tend to lean toward going the financial industry from undergrad. Investment banks like people with quants skills, and so you could become an analyst, or a trader or something like that. These people can earn quite a lot of money straight from undergrad as it is, so I'm not sure what the wage premium would be here.

On a more pure economics-y level, AFAIK this is where a masters becomes a lot more important. In order to get work as an 'economist' in a firm, a masters is generally required. The people I know who've got work in the central bank, or in other policy areas such as health, transport or development economics also all have masters.

The difference between doing and not doing a masters, then, is that doing a masters enables you to do jobs which are more pure economics-y. With just an undergrad, you'll be using some of the skills you learned, but in a way that's more tangential to economics as a whole.

I'm still an undergrad too (albeit going into 4th year), and this is just the impression I've gotten. there are older people here I'm sure who should be able to give you better information.

later12

I think there's no doubt that a Masters will widen your employment opportunities and can increase your earning potential - the question relates to what area you want to work in. It really is huge, and because you are expecting a joint 1st in Maths & Economics, the variety of postgraduate courses which may be available to you is also very large.

So if you wanted to be a trader, for example, there is no point in doing an MA with a low quant content relative to courses gearing students specifically towards quantitative careers. (or vice versa, although generally it's better to select more quant than less)

In any event, yes, a postgraduate qualification in the broad areas around economics/ finance is important to improve the attractiveness of your CV, but perhaps you should give a more specific view of what career interests you.

larry low

Thanks for the reply's. I am not really sure exactly what I want. I quite enjoy all of my different modules in the degree so there is not a huge amount I could rule out at this stage. What sort of employers/pathways take on the most people. It's well and good saying I want to work in the central bank or a Govt dept (to make a difference!!!!!!) but is there much demand from these places. Any help would be most welcome.

later12

If you are looking towards a quant role in finance or an IB, or mathematics generally, then now is the time to start getting specific on that professional route.

However, if your interest in mainly in pure economics then I would feel that your choice of postgraduate qualification is less critical, so pick a course that you can enjoy over the term of your postgraduate education, and ideally choose a well respected academic faculty. I would tend to go for the faculty over the specifics (course title, field options) of the postgrad.

Don't be reluctant to approach some of the academic staff for advice on what previous students have decided. Research demands notwithstanding, a major part of the faculty's role is in the education of undergraduates and they should be happy to advise you how to invest all of this knowledge that they have helped you to accumulate over the past 3 years.

Demand for institutions like the ESRI or the CBI is indeed strong, but you would greatly improve your employment prospects by engaging in a postgraduate education.

DiscoHugh

Hi Larry,

from my experience a role in the economics field specifically seems to require a minimum of a masters. Like you I graduated from UCD with a 1:1 in economics a few years ago and naively thought this would be enough to get my foot in the door for interviews etc.. however pretty much every entry level/graduate/junior economist role I saw advertised had a masters listed in the job description.

So after 3 years working as an analyst in finance, I'm starting a masters in economics in September so hopefully in a year I'll have a better answer for you!

all the best.

Main economics orientated career paths outside of academia are consultancies (e.g Nera, Deloitte), banks (e.g. Goldman), research institutions (e.g. ESRI, IFS), central banks and government (e.g. Government Economic Service in UK). You can get these jobs without a masters, but it's harder. Eventually, you'll need postgrad level economics and many organisations pay for their employees to do masters after a year or two.

For more generic quant/analyst jobs, a masters in economics is less important. Recruiters will be more concerned with your inherent ability and interest in the role. They'll teach you what you need to know once they hire you.

A big decision is whether you'd want to restrict yourself to Ireland. There is a lot more jobs in this area abroad (e.g. UK). Signalling is a big part of a postgrad qualification, and I reckon a masters from a good UK university (e.g. UCL, LSE, Warwick, Oxbridge) sends a stronger signal than any Irish equivalent.

Research as much as possible, there is a lot of info online. Lecturers (but not careers guidance in my experience) can be very helpful in terms of contacts and information. It may be worth applying for both jobs and a masters in your final year, using the masters as a backup. If you expect to do very well, you should apply for a scholarship.

Duke Leonal Felmet

I did a BA and MA in Economics and now work as an analyst for a bank. The MA certainly helped. Despite graduating in 2010, most of my class now have jobs.

freeze4real

hello guys im in 2nd year doingt finanace and economics, its arround the stage whereby applications for internship role should be filled.

As i want ti be a trader I am looking for trading firms or analytical firms but there are few.

Any ideas on where I should be looking ?

thanks

andrew

freeze4real wrote: »

hello guys im in 2nd year doingt finanace and economics, its arround the stage whereby applications for internship role should be filled.

As i want ti be a trader I am looking for trading firms or analytical firms but there are few.

Any ideas on where I should be looking ?

thanks

Are you willing to travel to London to do an internship? SIG is the only firm which does trading in Dublin AFIAK. Then you've got all the investment banks in London. Applications for summer internships are probably closed by now though, you might be a bit late. Try to ensure you get one next year though; getting in as a grad without having interned there seems quite difficult.

freeze4real

andrew wrote: »

Are you willing to travel to London to do an internship? SIG is the only firm which does trading in Dublin AFIAK. Then you've got all the investment banks in London. Applications for summer internships are probably closed by now though, you might be a bit late. Try to ensure you get one next year though; getting in as a grad without having interned there seems quite difficult.

I have applied to SIG and geneva trading if I don't get them I will apply to IBM got something else.

I have not considered what moving abroad entails. As I might have to pay for my own accommodation and stuff. If the will I'll go ASAP.

andrew

freeze4real wrote: »

I have applied to SIG and geneva trading if I don't get them I will apply to IBM got something else.

I have not considered what moving abroad entails. As I might have to pay for my own accommodation and stuff. If the will I'll go ASAP.

Trading internships pay pretty well AFAIK, and even if they didn't, if you ended up with a job then you'd make back the money you had spent on the internship in no time.

freeze4real

When you put in that way it makes perfect sense. Optic we trading is in Amsterdam and another BNP Barinas. They're both Dutch and French so they're willY be some sort of language difficulty.


Should I still apply ?

andrew

freeze4real wrote: »

When you put in that way it makes perfect sense. Optic we trading is in Amsterdam and another BNP Barinas. They're both Dutch and French so they're willY be some sort of language difficulty.


Should I still apply ?

Optiver are actively hiring from Ireland - they had a presentation in Trinity on Wednesday, so I don't think there'd be a language issue. Not sure about BNP Paribas. So still try for Optiver for sure.

freeze4real

Yes i saw that on trinity website but they dont have any links for application on their web page.

andrew

freeze4real wrote: »

Yes i saw that on trinity website but they dont have any links for application on their web page.

I got the impression they weren't looking for interns, that they wanted full time traders, so that could be it.

freeze4real

Yes I think you're right. I was just in the process of applying and they want my academic transcript. What I have is first year only which is nothing really at the most I need 2nd year results.

[Jackass]

If you want to become an "Economist" and work in the public sector, they would wipe their bum with a BA. You need minimum a masters.

In private sector, Economics and Maths would set you up with a very good career in the financial industry, even more so with a masters.

But for the difference in compensation and prospects, particularly if you get a 1st, it would be absolutely gold dust to you to do a masters, and probably a very good one, and coupled with your degree, you would be extremely desirable to all employers in the financial industry and would have your pick of the bunch (assuming there's a single job out there at the moment!) but education travels very well also, and if you don't have experience is absolutely critical, so if you wished to go to London where there's a lot more activity.

Also, your education is massively important if you wish to go further afield and helps a lot with visa applications.

A top masters student would get a perminant visa to Canada no problem for example, where finance industry jobs are plentyfull (from first hand experience - in Toronto at least) and it's a very New-York-like city, and only a few hours from NY also, if that took your fancy. (and if Irish job market fails you).

freeze4real

[Jackass] wrote: »

If you want to become an "Economist" and work in the public sector, they would wipe their bum with a BA. You need minimum a masters.

In private sector, Economics and Maths would set you up with a very good career in the financial industry, even more so with a masters.

But for the difference in compensation and prospects, particularly if you get a 1st, it would be absolutely gold dust to you to do a masters, and probably a very good one, and coupled with your degree, you would be extremely desirable to all employers in the financial industry and would have your pick of the bunch (assuming there's a single job out there at the moment!) but education travels very well also, and if you don't have experience is absolutely critical, so if you wished to go to London where there's a lot more activity.

Also, your education is massively important if you wish to go further afield and helps a lot with visa applications.

A top masters student would get a perminant visa to Canada no problem for example, where finance industry jobs are plentyfull (from first hand experience - in Toronto at least) and it's a very New-York-like city, and only a few hours from NY also, if that took your fancy. (and if Irish job market fails you).

Thanks for the info Getting in a 1.1 is my main priority especially in core modules like econometrics money and banking etc.


I definitely will be going to either Australia Netherlands or Canada is economics and finance are big there. UK is another option but it doesn't suit me besides I dont live it there.

[Jackass]

Well if you're considering travel outside of the E.U., I'd advise that you start researching Post grad courses in countries of interest now, such as Canada (just sticking to that as an example as it's something I know), but University of Toronto for example is a top level north american university, but you will pay top dollar to study there, but may be able to organise finance through the university and / or with an Irish / Canadian bank with a parent guarentee if that's possible, payments are off-set (but accruing interest) until you graduate and find a job. The only reason I raise this as an option is that it's a straight forward way to obtain a visa if you're that committed.

Otherwise, (and again, money) if you can do a masters in Ireland and then travel, so be it, but you might want to begin the visa application in anticipation of your masters, as it can take up to a year + to process through the skilled worker visa. There are some pitfalls also, where you may be required to obtain work first, so might want to apply to graduate programmes towards the end of your masters and take a couple of weeks over there to interview...
Don't get overwhelmed though, first thing I would recommend is decide if you would want to do a masters (and with travel I can't stress enough how important that is), and if you do do it, decide if you want to do it in Ireland or abroad, email admissions, ask them about the visa and payment process, and if that works great, if you stay here and do a masters and want to apply to graduate programmes down the line and as part of a visa application, then I know a landlord that might give you short term rental at a reasonable price in a nice building right down town, but contact the London based Canadian embassy first for advice on how to proceed.

PM me down the line if you need any help (my knowledge is purely Canadian based, but presume similar with OZ.)

Dr Albert S Meinheimer

larry low wrote: »

Hi there.

I am an Arts student in U.C.D.(doing economics and maths joint major) and I am going into third year(I will be getting a first handy enough). I am pretty sure i'd like to pursue a career in economics, but am not certain exactly what I would like to do. I was wondering what career prospects you would have with/without a masters? While i am sure this is difficult to answer as i am not entirely sure what job i really want any advice on what does or does not require a masters would be greatly appreciated.

Thoroughly recommend a career in Economics connected to Energy .

andrew

Dr Albert S Meinheimer wrote: »

larry low wrote: »

Hi there.

I am an Arts student in U.C.D.(doing economics and maths joint major) and I am going into third year(I will be getting a first handy enough). I am pretty sure i'd like to pursue a career in economics, but am not certain exactly what I would like to do. I was wondering what career prospects you would have with/without a masters? While i am sure this is difficult to answer as i am not entirely sure what job i really want any advice on what does or does not require a masters would be greatly appreciated.

Thoroughly recommend a career in Economics connected to Energy .

why?

MBC1

I also did a BA in Economics I didn't pursue it after college as I went down another route which was booming when I graduated back in 2003 but has since gone belly up! I have since gone back to my BA in Economics which got me a job in a management consultancy two years ago now. I agree that a masters is pretty much a pre-requisite to any job in economic consulting or alternatively a BA + 10 -15 years exp.

freeze4real

[Jackass] wrote: »

If you want to become an "Economist" and work in the public sector, they would wipe their bum with a BA. You need minimum a masters.

In private sector, Economics and Maths would set you up with a very good career in the financial industry, even more so with a masters.

But for the difference in compensation and prospects, particularly if you get a 1st, it would be absolutely gold dust to you to do a masters, and probably a very good one, and coupled with your degree, you would be extremely desirable to all employers in the financial industry and would have your pick of the bunch (assuming there's a single job out there at the moment!) but education travels very well also, and if you don't have experience is absolutely critical, so if you wished to go to London where there's a lot more activity.

Also, your education is massively important if you wish to go further afield and helps a lot with visa applications.

A top masters student would get a perminant visa to Canada no problem for example, where finance industry jobs are plentyfull (from first hand experience - in Toronto at least) and it's a very New-York-like city, and only a few hours from NY also, if that took your fancy. (and if Irish job market fails you).

So it seems I'll will be moving to Canada, it was decided by my mum. She will be going in the next 6minths and I'll join her after a year that's when I've completed my economics degree.

You mentioned Toronto as a good place to work, what's the pay like for graduates ? I've not reserved jobs for those with an economics degree as I really don't know any jobs apart from stock markets and financial analysts.

happyman81

freeze4real wrote: »

So it seems I'll will be moving to Canada, it was decided by my mum. She will be going in the next 6minths and I'll join her after a year that's when I've completed my economics degree.

You mentioned Toronto as a good place to work, what's the pay like for graduates ? I've not reserved jobs for those with an economics degree as I really don't know any jobs apart from stock markets and financial analysts.

http://www.econ-jobs.com/