Newbie question

delta_xray

Forgive this perhaps very silly question, but I dont want to go spending any money until I am sure that I am not breaking law or anything.

I would like to get a replica Walther PPKs and i have the Umarex Walther PPKS in mind. From my brief reading though, airsoft guns are 6mm (am i correct?) but this walther fires 4.5 mm or .177 calibre (calibre being a term which is causing me to be quite cautious).

So my main question is: can I import this gun legally without aquiring any licences etc?? (it fires at 290fpm which I am led to believe is reasonably safe)

Witcher

If it's .177/4.5mm you'll need a firearms licence..Marushin and ACM make an airsoft PPK that fires 6mm bbs that doesn't require a licence as they are below 1 Joule, anything over 1 joule requires a licence.

delta_xray

Thanks very much.

$kilkenny

the gun you have in mind id say is a c02 version. its an airpistol designed for killing rodents and the like.
basically a pistol of an air rifle
as blay said you need a licence
anything that shoots 4.5mm rounds needs a licence

bullets

I would strongly recommend going down the route of trying to aquire
a Marushin or ACM make of airsoft PPK that fires 6mm BB's
(Although spare magazines are scarce these days) Its more than likely
much less hassle to purchase and get additional ammo for in Ireland.
Most of the Irish Airsoft retailers would be happy to try and source one for you)

I've never seen anything in the fire arms laws to say If it's .177/4.5mm you'll need a firearms licence!!!!!

If its under 1j regardless of caliber its perfectly legal and the law does not
state what material is used as ammo.

ie I've perfectly legal airsoft guns that fire metal and glass bb's in 6mm
while no skirmish site in Ireland is likely to allow the use of this in a skirmish due to safety its still perfectly Legal to own and I'm not breaking any laws (ie I've ordinary airsoft guns under 1j but can change the ammo to plastic/bio/glass or metal and its still legal)

A gun that fires 4.5mm BB's made from copper/steel at under 1j of power would not need a licence. If its a CO2 powered gun that fires metal BB's though I would have my doubts that the gun advertised would actually be under 1j so I would personally not attempt to purchase one, favoring the safer airsoft approach.

Again I'd like to stress I would recommend that Airsoft and Plastic ammo approach to getting a PPK replica!!
and would advise against trying to purchase a 4.5mm metal fireing replica/gun.

~B

Witcher

bullets wrote: »

I've never seen anything in the fire arms laws to say If it's .177/4.5mm you'll need a firearms licence!!!!!

Sure you'd need a licence just to possess the ammunition for it.

bullets

Blay wrote: »

Sure you'd need a licence just to possess the ammunition for it.

Welcome to grey areas in Irish law

Why would you need a license for ammunition for something that's not a firearm in the first place? a gun that fires under 1j its not a firearm, and the ammo it uses is not a component of a firearm.

Are Potato's considered Ammunition that needs to be licensed if someone builds a spud gun with a barrel capable
of firing a projectile (the spud) at over 1j. Is the Potato ammunition that needs to be licensed ?


If it was Something like a .22LR or .17HMR round that has a chemical propellent in it could be considered a component part of a firearm and therefore falling into some form of restrictions covered in explosives the same as fireworks etc , but an inert plastic .177 or 6mm bit of plastic/glass/metal cant be considered a part of a firearm unless its fired by the firearm surely ?

I'm no lawyer so its only my own interpretation of what I've read from
the firearms act. I'm open to correction.

I can put my 6mm metal BB into an airsoft gun that fires under 1j and that's fine.
If I put my 6mm metal BB into an airsoft gun that fires over 1j then its a firearm.
Nothing in the law to state anything about doing the same when it comes to .177/4.5mm

~B

$kilkenny

anybody know of a gun that fires 4.5mm and is legal?
mainly there classed as over 3 joules and are used for killing things or target practise. thats why the bullets for air rifles are shaped alot like real bullets.. for penetration and for accuracy

Witcher

bullets wrote: »

Why would you need a license for ammunition for something that's not a firearm in the first place?

You can't buy air rifle pellets without a licence though..this thread goes into it a bit:)

bullets

Yes.

As a teenager I had a blaze orange and black springer pistol in the past (I no longer have it) that used 4.5mm spherical copper ammo that fired under 1j tested on a chrono.

I'm focusing here not in shaped Pellets made for actual firearms such as air-rifles used in target shooting but more along the lines of
spherical ammo than can be used in Non-firearms both in 4.5mm and 6mm calibers. example would be ammo such as this:
http://begadishop.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=2568

(BTW I'm not trying to start an argument or fuss or anything only highlighting some stuff
I've yet to see something written in Irish Law that will change my opinion but I could be
completely wrong if someone will point out specifics to me.)

~B

Witcher

bullets wrote: »

I'm focusing here not in shaped Pellets made for actual firearms such as air-rifles used in target shooting but more along the lines ofspherical ammo than can be used in Non-firearms both in 4.5mm and 6mm calibers. example would be ammo such as this:
http://begadishop.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=2568

That's the grey area..ammo can be found in spherical and the conical that the air rifle lads use and have a licence for..so whats the story with the spherical..like all firearms legislation here there are dark, unknown corners everywhere:P

bullets

yep when your talking real firearms grey gets more grey with the back and forth about whats legal and not.

suffice to say when you can get a PPK that fires under 1j in airsoft it might satisfy the OP's requirements. If he/she only wants it to plink with.
If he/she wants it for killing vermin maybe the shooting forum would be a better place to advise. (although licensing a pistol for vermin may be hopeless)

As for other stuff its a bit of a hornets nest and something that could be
argued back and forth endlessly I reckon.

For me I'm happy with sticking whatever I want into my airsoft guns as long as
its legal and I'm hurting nobody. (for plinking)
and being sensible and sticking to nice 0.25's 6mm when it comes to fireing at people.

~B

Broski.dll

Im 13 and i own a 1.5 joule shotgun that shoot's up to 400 FPS...

Witcher

Broski.dll wrote: »

Im 13 and i own a 1.5 joule shotgun that shoot's up to 400 FPS...

You're in posession of an unlicenced firearm so...

Broski.dll

Blay wrote: »

You're in posession of an unlicenced firearm so...

Well , my mum bought it for me at gotac... So idk why they would sell it to her. Also it's MAX 1.5 Joule.

Witcher

Broski.dll wrote: »

Well , my mum bought it for me at gotac... So idk why they would sell it to her. Also it's MAX 1.5 Joule.

You're still in posession of a firearm without a licence if it's that power..how do you know it's 1.5 joules?

Leftyflip

Broski.dll wrote: »

Well , my mum bought it for me at gotac... So idk why they would sell it to her. Also it's MAX 1.5 Joule.

Well, in Ireland its MAx 1 Joule.

To be fair I'd say it was downgraded to 328 or under.

Broski.dll

Blay wrote: »

You're still in posession of a firearm without a licence if it's that power..how do you know it's 1.5 joules?

Say's on the side on a sticker... Im pretty sure it's called something like the ASG SPAS Tactical
or something it was 60 euro btw.

Witcher

Broski.dll wrote: »

Say's on the side on a sticker... Im pretty sure it's called something like the SPAS Tactical
or something.

The boxes always show a higher power than it really is, it was most likely downgraded below 1 joule before it was imported.

Steve

Broski.dll, you need the shooting forum and a license, not Airsoft as that's a firearm.

No discussion of anything >1J as per forum rules.

Thanks.

Broski.dll

Blay wrote: »

The boxes always show a higher power than it really is, it was most likely downgraded below 1 joule before it was imported.

On the side of the actual shotgun , not on the box... I can get a pic if you want...

Broski.dll

Steve wrote: »

Broski.dll, you need the shooting forum and a license, not Airsoft as that's a firearm.

No discussion of anything >1J as per forum rules.

Thanks.

Sorry , i didn't see this till i posted that just there.

Witcher

Broski.dll wrote: »

On the side of the actual shotgun , not on the box... I can get a pic if you want...

Even still, it's likely the gun was downgraded and is below 1 joule, retailers can't sell anything over that.

Steve

No probs Broski.dll,

Best bet is to bring it to a retailer or site and get it tested. I agree with what Blay said but it's the only way to be sure.

Broski.dll

Steve wrote: »

No probs Broski.dll,

Best bet is to bring it to a retailer or site and get it tested. I agree with what Blay said but it's the only way to be sure.

I found out it's a tokio maroui knockoff. It's about 320 fps which i think is like 1.1 joule's. Sorry for my fail spelling.

Evade

320fps with a .20g BB is 0.95132713J.

Inari

1.1j is still >1j. EVERYTHING in Ireland that fires a projectile for use in airsoft MUST, under law, be firing UNDER 1joule.

You can interpret this in a number of ways, but the safest by far is that less than one joule, means NOT 1 joule. 328 fps with a 0.20g 6mm BB is the maximum permissable under Irish law.

If your shotgun is indeed firing circa 320fps with a 0.20g 6mm BB, then it is perfectly legal. It is definitely worth your while getting it chrono'd/measured. If it is NOT firing under 1 joule, then as Blay said, you are currently in possession of an ILLEGAL firearm. I cannot stress that enough. There are no provisions nor is there any leeway for it being an RIF - once it is >1 joule, it becomes an illegal firearm.

I know we're all very strong on this issue, but there is reason for it. Airsoft in Ireland is a very delicate matter. In order to keep our path clear for the future, we have to try and make everyone aware of the legalities, so that we ruffle as few feathers as possible...we are the minority, and we should tread softly (WB Yeats ftw)

Broski.dll

Inari wrote: »

1.1j is still >1j. EVERYTHING in Ireland that fires a projectile for use in airsoft MUST, under law, be firing UNDER 1joule.

You can interpret this in a number of ways, but the safest by far is that less than one joule, means NOT 1 joule. 328 fps with a 0.20g 6mm BB is the maximum permissable under Irish law.

If your shotgun is indeed firing circa 320fps with a 0.20g 6mm BB, then it is perfectly legal. It is definitely worth your while getting it chrono'd/measured. If it is NOT firing under 1 joule, then as Blay said, you are currently in possession of an ILLEGAL firearm. I cannot stress that enough. There are no provisions nor is there any leeway for it being an RIF - once it is >1 joule, it becomes an illegal firearm.

I know we're all very strong on this issue, but there is reason for it. Airsoft in Ireland is a very delicate matter. In order to keep our path clear for the future, we have to try and make everyone aware of the legalities, so that we ruffle as few feathers as possible...we are the minority, and we should tread softly (WB Yeats ftw)

Im almost certain it's less than 1j when i said 320 that was a rough estimate as i don't have a chrono... They would not sell something over 1j unless i had a license anyway.