Payment of Wages

later12

Hi

I have a flatmate who has not been paid wages for the past 7-8 weeks and now wishes to make an application for a listing at the civil (district) court.

To do so he needs to present a summons to the court office, can anyone advise what form this should take, whether there is simply some form of template into which he might transfer his details, or whether this realistically needs to be done by a solicitor?

Obviously as the guy has not been paid in about 2 months, hiring a solicitor is not something he can afford, and for various reasons we feel it's likely that the employer is more likely to respond positively to a court hearing in the local district court than a labour court hearing (which may have to go down the district court route anyway).

jblack

later10 wrote: »

Hi

I have a flatmate who has not been paid wages for the past 7-8 weeks and now wishes to make an application for a listing at the civil (district) court.

To do so he needs to present a summons to the court office, can anyone advise what form this should take, whether there is simply some form of template into which he might transfer his details, or whether this realistically needs to be done by a solicitor?

Obviously as the guy has not been paid in about 2 months, hiring a solicitor is not something he can afford, and for various reasons we feel it's likely that the employer is more likely to respond positively to a court hearing in the local district court than a labour court hearing (which may have to go down the district court route anyway).

You need to see a solicitor.

Without one it will cost you more in the long run, especially in terms of time and frustration.
Plenty willing to take this sort of claim on.

later12

Well the only thing a solicitor is needed for, as far as I can see, is to write the summons. The case itself is not particularly complicated - employer is in financial trouble and not paying any wages, as per contract.

So I just thought that there might be some sort of template form, like there is for the small claims court, whereby one just ticks some boxes and fills in the personal details. Maybe not... but it sounds like a straightforward enough document.

dermot_sheehan

It will take longer to get a district court hearing date in dublin then a hearing before a rights commissioner.

A rights commissioner hearing is more employee friendly with no costs risk.

A rights commissioner decision can be enforced as a circuit court order once an application is made to the circuit court.

later12

Yes, we know that about the district court. There are personal/ family reasons particular to this employer as to why we simply think they are likely to respond positively and quickly to a summons from this local district court.

It is likely that this problem can be resolved before it gets to court for that reason. But the employer has less of a personal incentive to respond to the labour court procedures.

hohojojo

a friend of mine is in the same suituation but you should contact the labour court and they will give you the contact details of a crowd that will sort this out for you without needing any type of solictor or courts i think they are called nrra or something

i hope that helps

Pat Mustard

hohojojo wrote: »

i think they are called nrra or something

I'd say you probably mean NERA. NERA is an advisory service only. I would imagine that they will direct people with payment of wages issues to the Rights Commissioner Service.

the_syco

later10 wrote: »

There are personal/ family reasons particular to this employer as to why we simply think they are likely to respond positively and quickly to a summons from this local district court.

It seems the employer may think that such a relationship gives them more leeway to not pay your flatmate?

So if there are no real reasons why they are not getting paid, I'd go the quickest route as the employer may not have money to pay your flatmate if it drags on too long?

later12

the_syco wrote: »

It seems the employer may think that such a relationship gives them more leeway to not pay your flatmate?

So if there are no real reasons why they are not getting paid, I'd go the quickest route as the employer may not have money to pay your flatmate if it drags on too long?

We are aware of one provider of a service who has had his fee met when a civil summons was issued. Certainly it's 'rough' on the employer to embarrass them (or their family) into paying, but failing to pay wages for almost 2 months is something we feel could be remedied with a district summons, without the matter ending up before the judge.

As the case appears so clear cut, any relationship the employer enjoys could not realistically be of assistance.

blueythebear

later10 wrote: »

Hi

I have a flatmate who has not been paid wages for the past 7-8 weeks and now wishes to make an application for a listing at the civil (district) court.

To do so he needs to present a summons to the court office, can anyone advise what form this should take, whether there is simply some form of template into which he might transfer his details, or whether this realistically needs to be done by a solicitor?

Obviously as the guy has not been paid in about 2 months, hiring a solicitor is not something he can afford, and for various reasons we feel it's likely that the employer is more likely to respond positively to a court hearing in the local district court than a labour court hearing (which may have to go down the district court route anyway).

I realise that you are only trying to scare the employer but a District Court Summons an unliquidated sum for (I presume) breach of contract is not appropriate and the District Court Judge would throw such a case out. If your employer knows this, he can just ignore the summons and you'll have gotten nowhere.

If you're serious about this, you should see a solicitor who would probably suggest that your flatmate demand his wages in writing and if no joy, leave the job and make appropriate claims to the Rights Commissioners and/or EAT.

You say that you are aware of one service provider who did this to get paid but this person is not an employee, he/she was a creditor so they issued an appropriate summons.

The LRC will be in touch with your employer soon after you make a claim so the employer will be aware of it and he can decide if he wishes to remedy the situation.

later12

blueythebear wrote: »

I realise that you are only trying to scare the employer but a District Court Summons an unliquidated sum for (I presume) breach of contract is not appropriate and the District Court Judge would throw such a case out. If your employer knows this, he can just ignore the summons and you'll have gotten nowhere.

Part of the problem is that if the employer knows what he is doing, he will refuse to co-operate with the rights commissioner, because the employer knows that this guy's visa runs out in a couple of months, and by the time he does get to engage the civil courts services, he won't still be in the country.

I wasn't aware of this issue of breach of contract for the payment of employees' wages cannot be heard in the district (civil) court. Or that it can only be heard there after engaging with the rights commissioners, at least.

Is there any specific rule as to why an employee cannot proceed through that court for wages owed?

dermot_sheehan

An employee can sue for wages in the district court, it would be unusual given the payment of wages process but can be done.

It's possible to delay things longer in the district court and file an appeal to the circuit court if you want a quick resolution.

skyhighflyer

The Payment of Wages Act 1991 appears to provide for a decision by a Rights Commissioner with an appeal to the EAT. No mention of District Court. There's a complaint form here.

Standard form summons are set out in the District Court Rules but as other posters have mentioned this may not be appropriate way to proceed.

later12

Would the fact that the employer in question was not providing payslips, paying in cash and, staff have reason to believe not paying taxes on behalf of staff, be something that could help with a civil case via district court?

One guy involved was talking casually to a solicitor who believes there may be a case for revenue and the director of corporate enforcement to get involved (limited company, company money disappearing), but not sure if this has any impact upon the employees' wages issue though. Perhaps not.

dermot_sheehan

the statutory right to apply under the payment of wages act does not displace an employees common law right to sue for breach of his employment contract until the rights commissioner has given his decision (s. 6(3)(b) Payment of Wages Act 1991).

blueythebear

dermot_sheehan wrote: »

the statutory right to apply under the payment of wages act does not displace an employees common law right to sue for breach of his employment contract until the rights commissioner has given his decision (s. 6(3)(b) Payment of Wages Act 1991).

I stand corrected. The right appears only to be alluded to in the Act but the implication is there alright. You learn something new every day!

blueythebear

later10 wrote: »

Part of the problem is that if the employer knows what he is doing, he will refuse to co-operate with the rights commissioner, because the employer knows that this guy's visa runs out in a couple of months, and by the time he does get to engage the civil courts services, he won't still be in the country.

I wasn't aware of this issue of breach of contract for the payment of employees' wages cannot be heard in the district (civil) court. Or that it can only be heard there after engaging with the rights commissioners, at least.

Is there any specific rule as to why an employee cannot proceed through that court for wages owed?

There's always the option of pointing out the urgency to the Rights Commissioners and request an early hearing, then hope that he doesn't appeal the matter to the EAT (which would drage the matter out). If it's a Payment of Wages claim, then the Rights Commissioner decision is treated as a Circuit Court Order so you can go ahead and get it registered against the employer relatively quickly.

However, this applies too in respect of District Court Summons which can be immediately enforced also.

In relation to the Visa issue, the question is whether the individual might be in a position to extend or change his visa, or alternatively leave and come back for a hearing on a visit visa. Whether this is worth it obviously depends on his wage but you have indicated that you're considering District Court Proceedings which has a limit of €6,000 or thereabouts.