Noonan's reaction to Eurozone plan

Silvio.Dante · 16-08-2011 9:18pm #1

Today in this the Franco-German stitch up, Merkel said as part of this new approach to the Eurozone crisis that herself and 'le dwarf' want a harmonisation of European Corporation Tax.

Our fella comes out and enthusiastically welcomes the entente like a court jester trying to please his master...

Pathetic...

hmmm · 16-08-2011 9:30pm

He said no such thing. He said Ireland would "engage constructively", which is essentially meaningless political speak.

Silvio.Dante · 16-08-2011 9:35pm

hmmm wrote: »

He said no such thing. He said Ireland would "engage constructively", which is essentially meaningless political speak.

He said that last week. However tonight he's come out and welcomed the Franco-German agreement...

Manach · 16-08-2011 9:36pm

The last politician that did any constructive in these islands was Hadrain. Saying that, if the Franco-Germans say jump, does Ireland have an option but to gracefully obey?

hmmm · 16-08-2011 9:37pm

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

He said that last week. However tonight he's come out and welcomed the Franco-German agreement...

Which is what I said.

Silvio.Dante · 16-08-2011 9:41pm

hmmm wrote: »

Which is what I said.

And my point is that comment is renderred out of date by tonight's comments...

hmmm · 16-08-2011 9:46pm

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

And my point is that comment is renderred out of date by tonight's comments...

Tonights comment was "The Commission already has proposals on CCCTB on the table and Ireland has already signalled we are going to constructively engage on this issue. That remains the case." which is exactly the same as previous comments.

Silvio.Dante · 16-08-2011 9:52pm

hmmm wrote: »

Tonights comment was "The Commission already has proposals on CCCTB on the table and Ireland has already signalled we are going to constructively engage on this issue. That remains the case." which is exactly the same as previous comments.

Merkel, for the first time said today that she wants a common Corporation Tax (with the dwarf salivating beside her). Thats a massive cranking up of pressure on Ireland. Noonan welcomed it...:mad:

hmmm · 16-08-2011 9:56pm

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

Merkel, for the first time said today that she wants a common Corporation Tax (with the dwarf salivating beside her). Thats a massive cranking up of pressure on Ireland. Noonan welcomed it...:mad:

You can't just make up a claim that someone said something which they didn't and use it to justify whatever point you're trying to make. That's silly stuff.

E.g.
Silvio Dante earlier in this thread said "I fully support this initiative of Merkel and Sarkozy", so I'm delighted to see that some of the people who would normally oppose such an initiative are on board. See what kind of mess that would make of a debate?

3rdDegree · 16-08-2011 9:58pm

No Irish politician in his right mind would give up our corporation tax, and Europe plus the rest of the world knows that. It would bring the government down as the people would not stand for it. Any politician would sooner default, which would be just as disastrous as giving up the corporate tax. Either would destroy what little economy we have left. IMHO, of course!

Silvio.Dante · 16-08-2011 9:59pm

hmmm wrote: »

You can't just make up a claim that someone said something which they didn't and use it to justify whatever point you're trying to make. That's silly stuff.

E.g.
Silvio Dante earlier in this thread said "I fully support this initiative of Merkel and Sarkozy", so I'm delighted to see that some of the people who would normally oppose such an initiative are on board. See what kind of mess that would make of a debate?

Merkel spelled out her intentions re Corporation Tax and Noonan came out as chief cheerleader. No amount of spin changes it...

Liam Byrne · 16-08-2011 10:00pm

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

Merkel, for the first time said today that she wants a common Corporation Tax

OK.....no indication of Noonan so far....

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

(with the dwarf salivating beside her).

Really ? Do you have a photo of this amazing occurrence ? Did you check if he has rabies ?

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

Thats a massive cranking up of pressure on Ireland.

Possibly. We'll see. And there's no guarantee we'll give in without getting something in return.

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

Noonan welcomed it...:mad:

Is that just a nonsense claim, or can you back it up ? Because absolutely nothing you've posted so far backs up the claim in the thread title.

Silvio.Dante · 16-08-2011 10:16pm

Liam Byrne wrote: »

OK.....no indication of Noonan so far....

Really ? Do you have a photo of this amazing occurrence ? Did you check if he has rabies ?

Possibly. We'll see. And there's no guarantee we'll give in without getting something in return.

Is that just a nonsense claim, or can you back it up ? Because absolutely nothing you've posted so far backs up the claim in the thread title.

From rte.ie...:

The Minister for Finance, Michael Noonan, has welcomed what he has called the initiative by the French and German leaders to address the wider eurozone crisis, following a meeting in Paris this afternoon.
French President Nicolas Sarkozy and Chancellor Angela Merkel are proposing a new collective economic 'government' for the eurozone, consisting of heads of state that would meet at least twice a year and be led by the European Council President, Herman Van Rompuy.
The two leaders are also to propose that the 17 eurozone countries adopt measures in their constitutions to enshrine rules on budgetary stability by the summer of next year.
Minister Noonan said the initiative reaffirmed an 'absolute determination' to defend the euro

nesf · 16-08-2011 10:32pm

Thread title edited to reflect reality.

nesf · 16-08-2011 10:39pm

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

I'd rather you delete the thread than you to engage in govt spinning...:rolleyes:

Furnish me with evidence that Noonan said he now backs a common corporation tax rate and I'll happily change it back.

nesf · 16-08-2011 11:57pm

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

He's welcomed the initiative which has at its core a harmonisartion of Corp. Tax. Join the dots..

Now please delete this thread. I'll not have it become a vehicle for Govt spin....

He welcomed very specifically the action to safeguard the Eurozone omitting any reference to the changes to corpo tax rate.

I see no need to delete the thread as anyone reading it can clearly see that I edited the title and from reading your initial post it's quite clear that you don't trust Noonan here and think he's agreeing to something far greater than just safeguarding the Euro.

Victor · 17-08-2011 12:04am

I think that it may suit us in certain ways to create a somewhat common tax base, e.g. Itialy and Portugal (I think!) don't have a capital gains tax. At times it would have suited us if they did. Similarly, I think it would be useful if some tax breaks were done away with, such that effective tax rates reasonably reflected the nominal tax rates.

zootroid · 17-08-2011 8:41am

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

From rte.ie...:

The Minister for Finance, Michael Noonan, has welcomed what he has called the initiative by the French and German leaders to address the wider eurozone crisis, following a meeting in Paris this afternoon.
French President Nicolas Sarkozy and Chancellor Angela Merkel are proposing a new collective economic 'government' for the eurozone, consisting of heads of state that would meet at least twice a year and be led by the European Council President, Herman Van Rompuy.
The two leaders are also to propose that the 17 eurozone countries adopt measures in their constitutions to enshrine rules on budgetary stability by the summer of next year.
Minister Noonan said the initiative reaffirmed an 'absolute determination' to defend the euro

No quotes from Noonan to suggest he supports the harmonization of tax rates in the EU.

So, you are basically making stuff up to "prove" your point.

nesf · 17-08-2011 11:04am

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

But the thread title is under my name and does not represent my views in the original post.

Maybe an alternative title like "Noonan's reaction to Eurozone plan" would be an acceptable compromise..?

That's fair enough, I'll change it to that.

Silvio.Dante · 17-08-2011 11:20am

nesf wrote: »

That's fair enough, I'll change it to that.

Thank you...:)

Scofflaw · 17-08-2011 11:59am

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

You deliberately ignore his open welcome for the entente, which has at its core harmonisation... Now for the spin machine going into oversdrive to try and convince us its good for us...:mad:

The government welcomed the Queen's visit - by the same sort of leap of logic, they're therefore in favour of us rejoining the UK.

amused,
Scofflaw

conorhal · 17-08-2011 1:19pm

I heard him on Newstalk 'welcoming the franco german plans' while at the same time insisting that at a cap on spending must be implemented to "prevent another government doing what the last government did and borrow until we were burried in debt", which is of course for the most part a pretty blatant lie. For the majority of the boom we were running budget surpluses, such a spending cap would have done absolutely nothing to prevent what happened, but don't let the facts get in the way of some political spin to ensure 'the sheeps' compliance with the plans of your Eurocrat masters Noonan. It made me sick listening to him.

Silvio.Dante · 17-08-2011 1:30pm

conorhal wrote: »

I heard him on Newstalk 'welcoming the franco german plans' while at the same time insisting that at a cap on spending must be implemented to "prevent another government doing what the last government did and borrow until we were burried in debt", which is of course for the most part a pretty blatant lie. For the majority of the boom we were running budget surpluses, such a spending cap would have done absolutely nothing to prevent what happened, but don't let the facts get in the way of some political spin to ensure the 'the sheeps' compliance for the plans of you Eurocrat masters Noonan. It made me sick listening to him.

Heaven knows how rthey're going to spin this latest stitch up. But spin they will. The big question is are the Irish People going to fall for it...

conorhal · 17-08-2011 1:33pm

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

Heaven knows how rthey're going to spin this latest stitch up. But spin they will. The big question is are the Irish People going to fall for it...

"Yes for Jobs!".... no wait.. we've already used that one, how about "More democratic accountability for government spending!" Yeah, that sounds about right.

Zubeneschamali · 17-08-2011 1:56pm

Noonan was on RTE's Morning Ireland today and explicitly stated that there would be no change to our Corporation tax as a result of these proposals.

Scofflaw · 17-08-2011 9:31pm

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Noonan was on RTE's Morning Ireland today and explicitly stated that there would be no change to our Corporation tax as a result of these proposals.

For some reason I don't expect that will make any difference to some of our posters.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Sand · 17-08-2011 11:59pm

Its interesting. The French apparently got a black eye back in July and the insertion of an explicit Irish undertaking to engage constructively was merely there to save French blushes at having been so comprehensively defeated on the corporate tax issue.

Most people who take a hiding tend to keep quiet about it, but the French are going on and on about the corporate tax issue. Its almost as if they didnt get a memo that they lost.

Odd.

Scofflaw · 18-08-2011 12:03am

Sand wrote: »

Its interesting. The French apparently got a black eye back in July and the insertion of an explicit Irish undertaking to engage constructively was merely there to save French blushes at having been so comprehensively defeated on the corporate tax issue.

Most people who take a hiding tend to keep quiet about it, but the French are going on and on about the corporate tax issue. Its almost as if they didnt get a memo that they lost.

Odd.

Did you read your own sig?

amused,
Scofflaw

hatrickpatrick · 18-08-2011 1:58am

hmmm wrote: »

He said no such thing. He said Ireland would "engage constructively", which is essentially meaningless political speak.

And when are we going to get some meaningful political speak where a politician does their job and comes out with "Look, we're putting our foot down, we will not allow you to erode our sovereignty any further?"

EDIT:

Sarkozy also stressed that individual governments would have to change their budgets when asked to by Brussels.

That nukes it for me. We are an independent, sovereign nation. Mine and many of everyone posting in this thread's ancestors suffered gargantuan pain and death to rid this nation of foreign control. Ireland run for the people by the people.

This is not what we spend centuries fighting for. Ireland is not meant to be a century republic but an eternal republic.

meglome · 18-08-2011 2:12am

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

That nukes it for me. We are an independent, sovereign nation. Mine and many of everyone posting in this thread's ancestors suffered gargantuan pain and death to rid this nation of foreign control. Ireland run for the people by the people.

This is not what we spend centuries fighting for. Ireland is not meant to be a century republic but an eternal republic.

Yes we're all proud of the sterling job our politicians and regulators did. I for one cannot see any benefit to getting pushed from the EU into not making a total mess of it again. No siree.

(I'd put the sarcastic icon up but you get the idea)

meglome · 18-08-2011 2:19am

conorhal wrote: »

"Yes for Jobs!".... no wait.. we've already used that one, how about "More democratic accountability for government spending!" Yeah, that sounds about right.

You know I'd really really love to go a whole week without hearing someone whine about the Lisbon treaty. Is there something about anti-EU people that they are also trapped in the past?

Silvio.Dante · 18-08-2011 7:28am

meglome wrote: »

You know I'd really really love to go a whole week without hearing someone whine about the Lisbon treaty. Is there something about anti-EU people that they are also trapped in the past?

Its the lies, damn lies and statistics surrounding the sell out to Lisbon that annoys me. But worse than that the naivety of the Irish People to give in to the bullyboy pressure...

Zubeneschamali · 18-08-2011 8:30am

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

But worse than that the naivety of the Irish People to give in to the bullyboy pressure...

I actually enjoy hearing all the Lisbon 2 and Nice 2 whining. It makes up for all the Nice 1 and Lisbon 1 insanity I had to listen to.

meglome · 18-08-2011 5:39pm

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

Its the lies, damn lies and statistics surrounding the sell out to Lisbon that annoys me. But worse than that the naivety of the Irish People to give in to the bullyboy pressure...

Oh dear jebus, will it ever stop. This was trashed out ad infinitum at the time. Most of the downright lying came from the anti-Lisbon treaty campaign so let's call a spade a spade. And let's move the fukk on, the majority got what they wanted - such is democracy.

Noonan's reaction to Eurozone plan

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